OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

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noleknight16
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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby noleknight16 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:43 am

AssumptionRequired wrote:
noleknight16 wrote:
splittermcsplit88 wrote:Okay, if D falls under the criminal statute, what would I write for "did he owe a duty?" How would I analyze...would I still talk about Cardozo and Andrews?


My tort teacher taught us to put the Andrews/Cardozo in the proximate cause argument. Depends on where you teacher wants it I guess. However, Palsgraf wasn't a statute violation so I doubt I'd even bring it up in this case even if your professor did want it there.

For breach, I would list out the three ways of establishing it: reasonable person standard, negligence per se, and res ipsa loquitur. Shoot down the ones dont apply quickly and then discuss the rule behind negligence per se. Apply fact to law with deep analysis. Then finally a brief open ended conclusion.

***Negligence per se establishes breach AND duty. You owe a duty by virtue of the statute being there


I dont think duty will be a big issue on most tests, usually you will either use the reasonable man standard or negligence per se (maybe res ipsa if necessary)

Here ismy question. When people talk about "deep" analysis I dont know if I am sure of what they mean.... Anyone have a question where they think they hit the ultimate level of analysis they would want to post?


The real hitch on duty tends to be nonfeasance and premise liability standards of care (invitee, licensee, trespasser). If you see a failure to act/protect/warn or somebody getting injured by the property itself, look at for either of those two.

Deep analysis depends on the professor. For example, my torts professor wanted the back and forth analysis (ping pong). Some want it organized by paragraph rather than going back and forth. For example (ping pong), when you get into the analysis portion of issue "A would bring up the affirmative defense of implied consent to the battery claim brought by B for the backyard boxing match. After all, B didn't have to show up unless he wanted to. However B would likely bring up the fact that he consented to a boxing style form of contact by showing up, but not an actual MMA style fight it turned into. B would argue that the MMA style fighting led to his injuries and had it been a boxing match as they agreed to, the injury would have never occurred. A would likely counter this analysis by pointing out the fact B never said anything against the MMA style fight and continued fighting, therefore continuing consent. [Brief conclusion]

Idk if that's helpful but that's how my torts professor wanted it and that's how I did the analysis.

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noleknight16
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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby noleknight16 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:51 am

splittermcsplit88 wrote:Okay, guys thanks a lot!! My exam is tomorrow, I have all the stuff memorized but I'm just not clear on how to organize. So, this is how I imagine my essays to go.

If the essay gives me a criminal statute -- I analyze: 1) meant to prevent harm in question? 2) meant to protect class of ppl in q?
If yes, I say this is the standard of care AND duty. It is negligence per se, but different jurisdictions have differing views -- negligence per se, prima facie negligence, and some evidence of negligence. I analyze under these jurisdictions. I shoot down RPP and Res Ipsa Loquitur. I might throw in an argument about excused violations of statutes -- incapacity, greater risk, emergency.

If the essay gives me no statute and a typical fact pattern -- 1) did he owe duty? (cardozo & andrews)
2) how was he supposed to act? (take into account: child, superior
abilities, custom, mental/physical disability).
Then, look at Breach -- evidence -- any direct? circumstantial? (custom/notice)

If the essay tells me -- flowerpot hit pedestrian walking by building. I go for RIL -- 1) would not have occured in absence of neg.
2) D conduct more likely than not caused it.


Is there anything you guys would add anywhere? defenses, etc. Where could I talk about the learned hand?


Look at the question first. Is it an issue spotter exam? If so, the question will likely be 1) What claims does A have against B? 2) What affirmative defenses could B raise?

Then I'd go like this:

1)
NEGLIGENCE - A vs B.

A could bring a negligence suit against B for blah blah blah. In order to be successful in a negligence suit, A must establish the prima facie case by showing (1) A has an injury, (2) B owes a duty to A, (3) B breached that duty with their action/inaction, and (4) B's breach is the actual and proximate cause of the injury suffered by A.

INJURY

Here in this case, A's injury is physical. He broke his leg as a result of the incident. This is self evident and the defendant likely will not contest this. (seems obvious but not putting it down loses points - professor cannot assume you know this)

Then finish off with your analysis for:
DUTY

BREACH

CAUSATION

DAMAGES (but include this only in eggshell plaintiff situation, comparative fault, joint and several liability, etc)


1)
BATTERY A v. B



Hope that helps.

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splittermcsplit88
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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby splittermcsplit88 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:00 am

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I guess I'll just word vomit and write down every f*cking thing.

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noleknight16
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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby noleknight16 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:02 am

splittermcsplit88 wrote:Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I guess I'll just word vomit and write down every f*cking thing.


Nope. Don't word vomit. Only regurgitate the rule. Apply fact to law and that's where most of the points are. Stay organized too.

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby lindy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:56 am

Are you guys planning to italicize cases on the exam essays? In my PTs, doing that has wasted valuable time, so I'm up in the air about it.

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby Benjamin1987 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:04 am

noleknight16 wrote:
splittermcsplit88 wrote:Okay, guys thanks a lot!! My exam is tomorrow, I have all the stuff memorized but I'm just not clear on how to organize. So, this is how I imagine my essays to go.

If the essay gives me a criminal statute -- I analyze: 1) meant to prevent harm in question? 2) meant to protect class of ppl in q?
If yes, I say this is the standard of care AND duty. It is negligence per se, but different jurisdictions have differing views -- negligence per se, prima facie negligence, and some evidence of negligence. I analyze under these jurisdictions. I shoot down RPP and Res Ipsa Loquitur. I might throw in an argument about excused violations of statutes -- incapacity, greater risk, emergency.

If the essay gives me no statute and a typical fact pattern -- 1) did he owe duty? (cardozo & andrews)
2) how was he supposed to act? (take into account: child, superior
abilities, custom, mental/physical disability).
Then, look at Breach -- evidence -- any direct? circumstantial? (custom/notice)

If the essay tells me -- flowerpot hit pedestrian walking by building. I go for RIL -- 1) would not have occured in absence of neg.
2) D conduct more likely than not caused it.


Is there anything you guys would add anywhere? defenses, etc. Where could I talk about the learned hand?


Look at the question first. Is it an issue spotter exam? If so, the question will likely be 1) What claims does A have against B? 2) What affirmative defenses could B raise?

Then I'd go like this:

1)
NEGLIGENCE - A vs B.

A could bring a negligence suit against B for blah blah blah. In order to be successful in a negligence suit, A must establish the prima facie case by showing (1) A has an injury, (2) B owes a duty to A, (3) B breached that duty with their action/inaction, and (4) B's breach is the actual and proximate cause of the injury suffered by A.

INJURY

Here in this case, A's injury is physical. He broke his leg as a result of the incident. This is self evident and the defendant likely will not contest this. (seems obvious but not putting it down loses points - professor cannot assume you know this)

Then finish off with your analysis for:
DUTY

BREACH

CAUSATION

DAMAGES (but include this only in eggshell plaintiff situation, comparative fault, joint and several liability, etc)


1)
BATTERY A v. B



Hope that helps.



I think this is a good approach, but you can present it in a more high-level lawyerly way. Instead of laying out the elements of negligence in an introduction just be sure to discuss each one and conduct analysis in its own paragraph. Your professor will recognize each one if you devote a paragraph to that topic alone (similar to your legal writing memo):

"1)
NEGLIGENCE - A vs B.

A could bring a negligence suit against B for blah blah blah.

Duty (paragraph)
Breach (paragraph)
Breach (counter-argument paragraph)
Causation (paragraph)
Causation (counter-argument paragraph)
etc...

Remember, structure your essay like you are an attorney doing your first hour of research on a possible suit. Your intended audience is other lawyers. Laying out the elements of duty, breach and causation explicitly would make you look like an amateur and be time consuming. Think it terms of the elements as you write, but take off the training wheels and get to the analysis.

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby SportsFan » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:07 pm

I remember a while ago people were passing around some flow charts. Anyone have any good civ pro or contracts ones? PM me, I guess. Thanks.

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby OfferSecured » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:40 pm

DON'T STOP!! DON'T BE LAST!!! LETS GO TRAM OF NERDS

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby mr.hands » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:41 pm

SportsFan wrote:I remember a while ago people were passing around some flow charts. Anyone have any good civ pro or contracts ones? PM me, I guess. Thanks.


yeah, i'm in the same boat.

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby Pleasye » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:13 pm

lindy wrote:Are you guys planning to italicize cases on the exam essays? In my PTs, doing that has wasted valuable time, so I'm up in the air about it.

Nope.

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby gaud » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:17 pm

Pleasye wrote:
lindy wrote:Are you guys planning to italicize cases on the exam essays? In my PTs, doing that has wasted valuable time, so I'm up in the air about it.

Nope.

+1

----------

Also, good luck tomorrow Pleasye!

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby Pleasye » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:18 pm

gaud wrote:Also, good luck tomorrow Pleasye!

I'm seriously going to need it so if you could throw some good luck vibes my way tomorrow I would greatly appreciate it.

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby gaud » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:21 pm

Pleasye wrote:
gaud wrote:Also, good luck tomorrow Pleasye!

I'm seriously going to need it so if you could throw some good luck vibes my way tomorrow I would greatly appreciate it.


*pshew pshew*

(luck-vibe sounds)

There ya go :D

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby Jsa725 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:43 pm

.
Last edited by Jsa725 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby Oklahoma2014 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:47 pm

First final yesterday (Torts). I listened to LEEWS just a week ago for the first time and tried to follow it as much as possible. Went right to the questions on the essay then spent time re-creating my outline for the issues I anticipated, it was completely closed book. Outlining really helped, as it completely killed any nervousness I had and gave me something to follow while typing answers. It was surprising how many people left early. Although I really zone out during tests and didn't realize it at the time, when time was called there were maybe 20% of us left. Concerned that maybe I didn't argue both sides very well. However, our professor gave us 10 years worth of exams and best answers, very few counter argued pro-defendant much. Our professor is very very pro-plaintiff, so hopefully it doesn't hurt me.

Either way, I felt in control and well prepared, which I know doesn't mean anything until grades come out. But feels great to have the first one down and was a real confidence booster going forward.

Good luck to all!

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby noleknight16 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Oklahoma2014 wrote:First final yesterday (Torts). I listened to LEEWS just a week ago for the first time and tried to follow it as much as possible. Went right to the questions on the essay then spent time re-creating my outline for the issues I anticipated, it was completely closed book. Outlining really helped, as it completely killed any nervousness I had and gave me something to follow while typing answers. It was surprising how many people left early. Although I really zone out during tests and didn't realize it at the time, when time was called there were maybe 20% of us left. Concerned that maybe I didn't argue both sides very well. However, our professor gave us 10 years worth of exams and best answers, very few counter argued pro-defendant much. Our professor is very very pro-plaintiff, so hopefully it doesn't hurt me.

Either way, I felt in control and well prepared, which I know doesn't mean anything until grades come out. But feels great to have the first one down and was a real confidence booster going forward.

Good luck to all!


Good work man. I felt the same during my post mortem. Only 20% of the class left at the end??? Wtf? I never understood why people would leave early. Just leaving points behind.

Good luck to everyone with finals today!!!

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby thelong » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:17 pm

Felt like I killed my K PT last night. Then noticed that there were no model answers for it. Gonna have to ask the prof for one or two if she has them.

The good news is that my outline was turned out to be way more useful than I thought it would be. I'm going through it now and adding a bit of elaboration/arguments in areas where it might have been helpful to have them for the PT. The good news was that I was able to make all the arguments that I wanted to, so though I didn't have the exact RSC or UCC verbiage to confirm against, I didn't manage to misapply anything, so woot. It turns out that I've at least absorbed some knowledge this semester.

Feeling pretty good! Going to revise this outline and then head back over to CivPro for a couple of days and then destroy Torts right up until Tuesday afternoon and then take it easy/light review until Torts exam on Wednesday.

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby OfferSecured » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:18 pm

STUDY UP. NO SLEEP TILL BROOKLYN. STUDY LIKE YA MOMMA TOLD YOU NOT TO.

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby LetsGoLAW » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:37 pm

Hey team. Hope everyone is well-rested.

Typing out my outlines today. Taking a few shorter practice tests. Feeling pretty good. Not scared in the slightest of these neurotic zombies illegally munching on addies all day long.

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby OfferSecured » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:38 pm

LetsGoLAW wrote:Hey team. Hope everyone is well-rested.

Typing out my outlines today. Taking a few shorter practice tests. Feeling pretty good. Not scared in the slightest of these neurotic zombies illegally munching on addies all day long.



Atta BOY LGL - I wanna hear you give me a Howard Dean type yell battle cry. Come on brah, the team needs you

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby LetsGoLAW » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:40 pm

OfferSecured wrote:
LetsGoLAW wrote:Hey team. Hope everyone is well-rested.

Typing out my outlines today. Taking a few shorter practice tests. Feeling pretty good. Not scared in the slightest of these neurotic zombies illegally munching on addies all day long.


Atta BOY LGL - I wanna hear you give me a Howard Dean type yell battle cry. Come on brah, the team needs you


Image

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby OfferSecured » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:41 pm

LetsGoLAW wrote:
OfferSecured wrote:
LetsGoLAW wrote:Hey team. Hope everyone is well-rested.

Typing out my outlines today. Taking a few shorter practice tests. Feeling pretty good. Not scared in the slightest of these neurotic zombies illegally munching on addies all day long.


Atta BOY LGL - I wanna hear you give me a Howard Dean type yell battle cry. Come on brah, the team needs you


Image



No Troll, I'M JUST HUNGRY FOR SUCCESS. NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby Birdnals » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:15 pm

Welp, Civ pro is done which was my only closed book exam. Not burnt out, but probably going to spend the rest of the day just doing busy work like making note cards and such. Give the brain a half day.

If any of you have some property short answer type questions for types of estates/ RAP with answers it would be awesome if you could PM me so I can give you my email. I can trade you my school's test bank plus 5 Torts long-form test (3 hour, 1 fact pattern type). My professor always has it with current events, so there is a 4 loco one and a penn state one and other shit that keeps a practice test as interesting as 3 hour torts fact pattern can be.


Thanks, and good luck everybody!! CSWS

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby gaud » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:22 pm

Congrats bro!

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Re: OFFICIAL 1L Exam Prep & Motivation Thread (CSWS)

Postby Blumpbeef » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:25 pm

Birdnals wrote:Welp, Civ pro is done which was my only closed book exam. Not burnt out, but probably going to spend the rest of the day just doing busy work like making note cards and such. Give the brain a half day.

If any of you have some property short answer type questions for types of estates/ RAP with answers it would be awesome if you could PM me so I can give you my email. I can trade you my school's test bank plus 5 Torts long-form test (3 hour, 1 fact pattern type). My professor always has it with current events, so there is a 4 loco one and a penn state one and other shit that keeps a practice test as interesting as 3 hour torts fact pattern can be.


Thanks, and good luck everybody!! CSWS


You can't even look at FRCP? Damn.




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