Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
blackandyellow
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:29 pm

Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby blackandyellow » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:14 am

Hey guys. I was just curious how people feel about Michigan's 55% bar pass rate. Michigan usually passes around 70-80% in June.

Also, I heard there were complains about roughly 100 students having the option to use a computer while the other 90% or so did not receive that option. Having a computer seems like a HUGE advantage. Furthermore, indirectly it prob also helps your score due to the fact that graders are less stressed out about ur answers being readable.

Some people complain that while there is a glut of lawyers, the regulation of lawyers should be in place BEFORE one spends 100k+ of non dischargeable debt.

What do you guys think on those factors?

katjust
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:49 am

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby katjust » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:26 am

Protectionism is bad for consumers and those not already in the profession. It has helped lead to the inflated rates for and the excessive costs of entering the legal profession.

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby keg411 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:17 pm

A difference of 10% of people with a computer option shouldn't make that much of a difference in pass rate. The problem is more likely a product of Cooley's admission of anyone with a pulse.

thegrayman
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby thegrayman » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:35 pm

I thought there was some form of curve to ensure a consistent pass rate in most states, is that not the case?

Gorki
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby Gorki » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:46 pm

keg411 wrote:A difference of 10% of people with a computer option shouldn't make that much of a difference in pass rate. The problem is more likely a product of Cooley's admission of anyone with a pulse.


That is my guess. With the legal market tanking, most Cooley grads are no longer taking exams out-of-state (they have no money and are realizing how terrible the market is everywhere)... As a result, these grads are all taking the Michigan bar instead... How many students from UMichigan are taking Michigan bar? My guess is not a lot. Many of that 55% are likely the grads from Michigan's non-Cooleys.

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby 2014 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:38 pm

Only like 30 UMich students took it (80% passing) while 300 Cooley students did (60% of them failing). Detroit Mercy had ~120 with more than half failing and Mich State/Wayne had ~150 with roughly at 60% pass rate. Chart is on ATL.

While Michigan's 80% isn't exactly good, the "problem" is that the state is full of shitty law schools providing a shitty education. I really hope they don't change anything about the exam. What a great way to discourage morons from attending law school than to stop half of them from ever getting barred.

Also found it interesting that the retake success rate was like 15% based on the ATL chart. I thought most people succeeded on their 2nd try, but that is objectively abysmal.

Gorki
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby Gorki » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:02 pm

2014 wrote:Also found it interesting that the retake success rate was like 15% based on the ATL chart. I thought most people succeeded on their 2nd try, but that is objectively abysmal.


From what I hear, the only people who tend to pass on retake had some extraordinary condition throw them off of their routine in round 1. People who gave their all or slacked the first round, just can't do it second round.

NotMyRealName09
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:50 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:21 pm

As a Michigan legal practitioner, I say GOOD.

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby 2014 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:32 am

Gorki wrote:
2014 wrote:Also found it interesting that the retake success rate was like 15% based on the ATL chart. I thought most people succeeded on their 2nd try, but that is objectively abysmal.


From what I hear, the only people who tend to pass on retake had some extraordinary condition throw them off of their routine in round 1. People who gave their all or slacked the first round, just can't do it second round.

The barbri woman I talked to at school this week said that if you fail you are statistically all but certain to pass the next time, wonder what she was smoking?

Black-Blue
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:46 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby Black-Blue » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:04 am

I think what that Barbri woman was trying to say is that Barbri is so good that the only way you'll fail with Barbri is by a fluke.

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby 2014 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:40 am

I should point her in Cooley's direction, seems like they could use an infusion of Barbri.

Oh wait, I was happy they failed, better keep her here west of the lake.

User avatar
Tom Joad
Posts: 4542
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby Tom Joad » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:46 am

Schools should be forced to reimburse the tuition of people who never pass the bar. BOOM, Cooley is gone.

lovelaw27
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:35 am

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby lovelaw27 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:20 am

The following quote is from a dean in Michigan:

"There were changes in the scoring process for the July bar. It is much less favorable for any potential examinee--hence the across-the-board drop in the bar passage rate for all schools in Michigan."

In other words, it appears the Michigan Bar was trying to intentionally reduce the bar passage rate in Michigan.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:47 pm

katjust wrote:Protectionism is bad for consumers and those not already in the profession. It has helped lead to the inflated rates for and the excessive costs of entering the legal profession.



lol no.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:54 pm

I don't see how this threatens Cooley or Detroit Mercy at all yet, which would be my desired goal of decreasing bar passage rate. None of the other Michigan schools, even Michigan, posted exceptional bar passage rates for first-time takers, so Cooley's passage rate doesn't put them out of compliance with ABA regulations. Even if they did, they'd probably be allowed to keep accreditation under the holistic inspection exceptions since the ABA Section on Legal Ed is stacked with TTT law faculty. If this ever does threaten their accreditation, Cooley will continue to game the system by failing out more people after 2L or making more students take remedial classes in order to delay their attempt at the bar in order to boost their bar passage rate.

Still, I hope this signals a trend of state bar associations taking steps to protect the reputation of the profession or trying to cull some of these diploma mill law schools. But simply making the bar exam harder may not single out TTT schools, since everyone's bar passage rate can be expected to drop. This might change if, for example, the other schools in MI cut class size while Cooley increases class size.

Gorki
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Thoughts on July 2012 Michigan Bar Pass rate of 55%

Postby Gorki » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:56 pm

/facepalm @ state bar screwing over a bunch of young law grads rather than going after the schools. Instead of slamming the gate to the profession shut after 3-4 years paying tuition to schools, stop them at the LSAT phase when their expenses into pursuing law are still low.




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: splitterfromhell and 13 guests