question about outlining

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PaulKriske
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question about outlining

Postby PaulKriske » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:46 pm

so, as i outline i drift in and out of directly quoting from the casebook and what not.

now, hypothetically after i distill my outline into the final format, should i worry about properly citing shit? what if i'm working on an exam and quote from my outline (i have a good memory) and don't realize i'm actually quoting from some other source and i forget to notate that?

is that problematic plagiarism-wise, or am i worrying about nothing?

Gorki
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Re: question about outlining

Postby Gorki » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:07 pm

Unless your school has some really bizarre standards, hell no. Never waste your time citing to a case unless the problem specifically asks for it, or you know it off the top of your head.

The general rule is outside of a few huge cases that you talk about an entire class, you never put case names in your outline. Exception being con law. If this is about con law, then yes you need to make sure what you are citing is actually the test/rule of the case.


In regards to plagiarism... This is a non-issue on an exam. You should be much more worried about spotting hella issues, and doing hella analysis of said issues. Citing will waste a ton of time and cost you tons of analysis.

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straxen
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Re: question about outlining

Postby straxen » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:08 pm

It's an exam, not a paper, so your discussion of blackletter isn't expected to be your original work, and it's assumed you're relying on assigned cases, sections of the casebook, and the professor's own statements. Short of citing huge blocks of text/analysis and purposely trying to make it look like your own (which you can't really do accidentally) you almost certainly don't need to worry about citation. I know my school's plagiarism policy, for one, is phrased so as not to cover exams.

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PaulKriske
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Re: question about outlining

Postby PaulKriske » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:10 pm

my issue is i tend to remember exact phrasings. if i write a phrase on an exam that happens to be straight from an E&E or the case book or some online thing, will i get knocked for plagiarism?

Gorki
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Re: question about outlining

Postby Gorki » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:13 pm

PaulKriske wrote:my issue is i tend to remember exact phrasings. if i write a phrase on an exam that happens to be straight from an E&E or the case book or some online thing, will i get knocked for plagiarism?

no.

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Nova
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Re: question about outlining

Postby Nova » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:14 pm

Good question.

Good to know.

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PaulKriske
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Re: question about outlining

Postby PaulKriske » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:20 pm

i'm hoping this advice is right. i think i may ask my professors this week.

Gorki
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Re: question about outlining

Postby Gorki » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:24 pm

PaulKriske wrote:i'm hoping this advice is right. i think i may ask my professors this week.

Good idea. Like I said, at my school the prof's were reading 50 15-20 + page essays that mostly said similar things.... They did not do cite checks, or pull out the Restatements and find copies of the latest of every single supplement, esp when most of them also taught other classes. Your school might have some different rule in the honor code though.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: question about outlining

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:57 pm

Plagarism??? On an exam? No, don't ask any professor about that, they will look at you funny. If you remember exact phrasing of a statement of law, that's called "doing well on an exam."

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PaulKriske
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Re: question about outlining

Postby PaulKriske » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:03 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:Plagarism??? On an exam? No, don't ask any professor about that, they will look at you funny. If you remember exact phrasing of a statement of law, that's called "doing well on an exam."


but what if it's a take-home?

and what if it's not statement of law but some analysis, like in con law?

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kapital98
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Re: question about outlining

Postby kapital98 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:49 pm

PaulKriske wrote:
NotMyRealName09 wrote:Plagarism??? On an exam? No, don't ask any professor about that, they will look at you funny. If you remember exact phrasing of a statement of law, that's called "doing well on an exam."


but what if it's a take-home?

and what if it's not statement of law but some analysis, like in con law?


You are worrying for no reason. Assuming it's a take home: You will have all of your materials in front of you. Just make sure not to overtly plagarize -- just like any of your undergrad papers. It's not hard to change a few words in a sentence and call it your own. Or, you can just quote when necessary (but it's often best not to if the paper has a word limit -- you will spot less issues!)

If it's con law the teacher will probably be impressed by your textbook analysis. No student is expected to have "original" analysis on an exam. First, there isn't time for original analysis. You'll be extremely fortunate if you can regurgitate the analysis found in your casebook and class lectures. Second, you don't have any reference material in front of you. It's not like you can write a treatise...

Relax! :wink:

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kapital98
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Re: question about outlining

Postby kapital98 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:51 pm

Gorki wrote:In regards to plagiarism... This is a non-issue on an exam. You should be much more worried about spotting hella issues, and doing hella analysis of said issues. Citing will waste a ton of time and cost you tons of analysis.


This is what is important!

P.S. You 1L's... :lol:

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5ky
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Re: question about outlining

Postby 5ky » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:15 am

I disagree somewhat with the tenor of this thread. If OP is quoting analysis from an E&E on a take-home exam, I think that is a little weird and shouldn't be encouraged.

Also, I always reference case names, restatements or statutes by name where I can slide it in. It makes for a better exam, although it does take time. If you are a slow exam writer or bad memorizer, it won't be worth it.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: question about outlining

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:23 am

PaulKriske wrote:
NotMyRealName09 wrote:Plagarism??? On an exam? No, don't ask any professor about that, they will look at you funny. If you remember exact phrasing of a statement of law, that's called "doing well on an exam."


but what if it's a take-home?

and what if it's not statement of law but some analysis, like in con law?


Whoa, analysis.....you aren't really asking if you can use someone else's analysis on an exam, are you? I, uh, don't even know how to answer, if only because you've hit on a strange realm of ambiguity. I mean, a take home exam - you're going to reference your case book, which analyzed what it presented, so....I think the best answer I can give is that with a take-home, your professor knows you'll be referncing external sources, so give attribution. Not formal, blue book attribution, but you should cite anything unoriginal. That's fine.

On a closed book - cites aren't necessary, but bonus points for case names. Why? Because your professor made an outline of a model answer, and that answer cites to the original source just to ensure the professor covered it all in class, and when you cite and it matches their outline, they can stop reading and give full points, which makes them happy, because grading exams sucks.

God damn lawyers.....

LSATNightmares
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Re: question about outlining

Postby LSATNightmares » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:50 am

This was an issue for me last year. In my fall semester, my professors didn't care and said it wasn't a plagiarism issue, so I copied directly in many cases. I assumed it would be the same way in spring semester, but I was a bit wrong. I luckily checked in with one of my professors about it, and she said it was plagiarism because we had an 8-hour take home exam. It surprised the rest of the class, too, so I was glad I asked. Therefore, I recommend you ask your professors.

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: question about outlining

Postby LazinessPerSe » Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:09 am

Half of my Torts exam(s) was regurgitating Glannon word-for-word. I think you'll be fine.

But make sure to check with your profs. Maybe they have a pinecone lodged in deep.




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