OCI, what the heck?

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Sheffield
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OCI, what the heck?

Postby Sheffield » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:30 pm

Over the past year (1L here) I have kept up with my law school on my classes' private forum board. Great way to communicate (no professors lurking around and no crazies posting). Problem is that there is no anonymity (which I like, but not so much in dealing with OCI) ― which leads me here.

Given good GPA/LSAT scores I had several opportunities to accept heavy tuition discounts from several Tier 1 and upper Tier 2 schools. Instead I bought into the T-14 lore (with a moderate tuition discount) and significant COL costs. My main reason for choosing T-14 was based on OCI (that cannot be overstated). My exam grades are above median (A-/B+ range). I completed over 25 interviews (yielding only 2 callbacks). To reiterate, giving up near full rides for 2 callbacks.
What I have see on my school’s forum is extreme concern. Only having 2 callbacks is not considered peculiar. How can that be? Granted there are a few with a half dozen callbacks, but they are the exception. Over here on TLS I checked postings from schools with a higher ranking than mine and there is a fair amount of despair over callbacks. Are you in the same boat ― wondering what the heck is going on?

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Tanicius
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby Tanicius » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:41 pm

Sure. It's very stressful waiting for callbacks. With interview weeks getting pushed earlier and earlier, it does make sense that firms give callbacks on a rolling basis and don't give all of them out right away, so if you don't as many as you want, hopefully it's possible you'll get more later on. But on the other hand, I've heard a lot of consensus that if you don't get a callback within 48 hours, you're usually going to be out of luck with that firm. Not always, but usually.

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Icculus
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby Icculus » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:43 pm

Sheffield wrote:Over the past year (1L here) I have kept up with my law school on my classes' private forum board. Great way to communicate (no professors lurking around and no crazies posting). Problem is that there is no anonymity (which I like, but not so much in dealing with OCI) ― which leads me here.

Given good GPA/LSAT scores I had several opportunities to accept heavy tuition discounts from several Tier 1 and upper Tier 2 schools. Instead I bought into the T-14 lore (with a moderate tuition discount) and significant COL costs. My main reason for choosing T-14 was based on OCI (that cannot be overstated). My exam grades are above median (A-/B+ range). I completed over 25 interviews (yielding only 2 callbacks). To reiterate, giving up near full rides for 2 callbacks.
What I have see on my school’s forum is extreme concern. Only having 2 callbacks is not considered peculiar. How can that be? Granted there are a few with a half dozen callbacks, but they are the exception. Over here on TLS I checked postings from schools with a higher ranking than mine and there is a fair amount of despair over callbacks. Are you in the same boat ― wondering what the heck is going on?


Really? Don't you think that's two more callbacks than you would have gotten at a lower school? Plus if even only one turns into an offer you are set witha six figure job.

sgoodman
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby sgoodman » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:10 pm

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Last edited by sgoodman on Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

TheRedMamba
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby TheRedMamba » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:27 pm

1L SAs are increasingly rare these days, no?

Having 2 call back for what I assume to be 1L SAs is not bad at all...

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LeDique
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby LeDique » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:31 pm

TheRedMamba wrote:1L SAs are increasingly rare these days, no?

Having 2 call back for what I assume to be 1L SAs is not bad at all...


Because he just finished up OCI before even starting classes as a 1L?

Ofta3184
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby Ofta3184 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:51 pm

LeDique wrote:
TheRedMamba wrote:1L SAs are increasingly rare these days, no?

Having 2 call back for what I assume to be 1L SAs is not bad at all...


Because he just finished up OCI before even starting classes as a 1L?



Rhetorical question pointing out the illogical nature of unhelpful poster. CLASSIC!

bdubs
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby bdubs » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:52 pm

Sheffield wrote:Over the past year (1L here) I have kept up with my law school on my classes' private forum board. Great way to communicate (no professors lurking around and no crazies posting). Problem is that there is no anonymity (which I like, but not so much in dealing with OCI) ― which leads me here.

Given good GPA/LSAT scores I had several opportunities to accept heavy tuition discounts from several Tier 1 and upper Tier 2 schools. Instead I bought into the T-14 lore (with a moderate tuition discount) and significant COL costs. My main reason for choosing T-14 was based on OCI (that cannot be overstated). My exam grades are above median (A-/B+ range). I completed over 25 interviews (yielding only 2 callbacks). To reiterate, giving up near full rides for 2 callbacks.
What I have see on my school’s forum is extreme concern. Only having 2 callbacks is not considered peculiar. How can that be? Granted there are a few with a half dozen callbacks, but they are the exception. Over here on TLS I checked postings from schools with a higher ranking than mine and there is a fair amount of despair over callbacks. Are you in the same boat ― wondering what the heck is going on?


Did you choose your bids poorly? It sounds like you might have been hitting for the fences instead of trying to maximize your chances. Don't blame the T-14 recommendations here if you thought your school's great name would get your CBs with a lot of relatively selective V25 type firms with what sounds like good, but not great, grades.

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Icculus
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby Icculus » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:00 pm

bdubs wrote:Did you choose your bids poorly? It sounds like you might have been hitting for the fences instead of trying to maximize your chances. Don't blame the T-14 recommendations here if you thought your school's great name would get your CBs with a lot of relatively selective V25 type firms with what sounds like good, but not great, grades.


Also, this. It's all about playing the numbers.

Gorki
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby Gorki » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:57 pm

OP, start mass mailing, esp. in your home market. I do think you need to understand how relative your 'dire straits' seem to be. I think its safe to say at the schools you got a full ride to, you would be on the winning side of your class with more than 2 OCIscreeners, let alone CBs. This is the case at my non-t14 school.

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traehekat
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby traehekat » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:07 pm

2-3 CB's seems pretty standard unless you are in the top 10-15%, even at a T14. Be thankful you have had as many opportunities as you have had (because most law students don't get that many screeners), and that they have yielded 2 CB's. Like others have said, start mass mailing and you will probably pick up a few more.

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emkay625
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby emkay625 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:10 pm

Do we have conventional wisdom as far as how many offers (percentage wise) result from CBs?

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traehekat
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby traehekat » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:12 pm

emkay625 wrote:Do we have conventional wisdom as far as how many offers (percentage wise) result from CBs?


Depends on the firm. Some are pretty low, like 10% (and maybe less). Others are closer to 1/3, maybe a little more.

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jessuf
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby jessuf » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:26 pm

traehekat wrote:
emkay625 wrote:Do we have conventional wisdom as far as how many offers (percentage wise) result from CBs?


Depends on the firm. Some are pretty low, like 10% (and maybe less). Others are closer to 1/3, maybe a little more.


What's the best place to research this kind of stuff for specific firms?

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traehekat
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby traehekat » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:34 pm

Jessuf wrote:
traehekat wrote:
emkay625 wrote:Do we have conventional wisdom as far as how many offers (percentage wise) result from CBs?


Depends on the firm. Some are pretty low, like 10% (and maybe less). Others are closer to 1/3, maybe a little more.


What's the best place to research this kind of stuff for specific firms?


Not sure there is one place to find that information, this is just what I have found to be the general consensus on TLS anytime the question comes up. Run some searches and see if you find anything if you want information on a specific firm.

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St.Remy
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby St.Remy » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:37 pm

traehekat wrote:
emkay625 wrote:Do we have conventional wisdom as far as how many offers (percentage wise) result from CBs?


Depends on the firm. Some are pretty low, like 10% (and maybe less). Others are closer to 1/3, maybe a little more.


This is largely dependent on the market, firm, and what school you went to. Some firms regularly give offers to close to 100% of CBs, and 2/3 or 3/4 callbacks resulting in offers isn't rare. Your best bet for this information would be the data provided by your school's career guidance office, not a public source. If they haven't provided you with a spreadsheet from last year with this information, call them up and ask them about the specific firms that you have CBs with. They should be able to help you out.

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Tanicius
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby Tanicius » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:43 pm

2-3 CB's as an average for students at T-14's strikes me as very unusual. I received very few callbacks, likely because of grades, whereas pretty much everyone I know with grades that are better than mine even slightly have had as few as 5 and as many as 12 CB's.

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ilovesf
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby ilovesf » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:47 pm

I'm not at a t14 but I'm top 15 + LR and I got very few cbs too. I'm sorry, but it is unusual. I know lots of people at my lower t1 with 10+ cbs.

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St.Remy
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby St.Remy » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:50 pm

ilovesf wrote:I'm not at a t14 but I'm top 15 + LR and I got very few cbs too. I'm sorry, but it is unusual. I know lots of people at my lower t1 with 10+ cbs.


What market were you bidding, primarily?

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ilovesf
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby ilovesf » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:52 pm

St.Remy wrote:
ilovesf wrote:I'm not at a t14 but I'm top 15 + LR and I got very few cbs too. I'm sorry, but it is unusual. I know lots of people at my lower t1 with 10+ cbs.


What market were you bidding, primarily?

SF/SV, but so were my friends with all the CBs. Hastings is pretty regional.

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Tanicius
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby Tanicius » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:53 pm

ilovesf wrote:
St.Remy wrote:
ilovesf wrote:I'm not at a t14 but I'm top 15 + LR and I got very few cbs too. I'm sorry, but it is unusual. I know lots of people at my lower t1 with 10+ cbs.


What market were you bidding, primarily?

SF/SV, but so were my friends with all the CBs. Hastings is pretty regional.



~6 CB's is also the average I've observed for Boalt students bidding on Bay Area firms, though my classmates who bid on LA and some NYC or students with tech backgrounds seem to be rolling in more CB's than everyone else. A lot of this was predictable. The people killing it at EIW are the same people who obtained 1L firm gigs.

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IAFG
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby IAFG » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:58 pm

When you chose a T14 for OCI, I guess you didn't bother to notice how many T14ers mass mail? Or consider the value of mass mailing from a t14? I am going to assume you listened to TLS conventional wisdom on choosing T14 for job prospects (NOT the same as OCI) but ignored CW on not K-JDing, or else you wouldn't be surprised that above median T14 still needs to hustle and be hungry to end up employed.

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IAFG
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby IAFG » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:07 pm

It's also only August 18...

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Sheffield
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby Sheffield » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:36 am

Just to touch base on a few of the responses.

The importance of bidding is understood ―securing a couple of reaches, highlighting firms that make sense and a few considered safe[r], gov’t, etc. Point: If median T-14 classmates were knocking down a half dozen callbacks and I am only at 2, I could assume my bidding strategy was greatly flawed. However, only a handful of classmates are piling up 4 or 5 callbacks (given the feedback from our forum and personal contacts). When I scroll through the OCI threads on Top Law School from highly ranked T-14 schools, the issue concerning the lack of callbacks is appartent. Of course it is possible that people (like myself) are temporarily in panic mode.

I agree with earlier opinions that if a callback does materialize in 48 hours, it is doubtful that you are on the invite list. On the other hand rejection notices are delivered with AK47 rapid fire response.

To add to the concern are the opinions that 2Ls have a much harder go with OCI and 3Ls are in the deep. I would think that without the 2L/3L curve in play, grades should vastly improve but for whatever reason I have read that they do not carry the same weight.

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Icculus
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Re: OCI, what the heck?

Postby Icculus » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:45 am

Sheffield wrote: To add to the concern are the opinions that 2Ls have a much harder go with OCI and 3Ls are in the deep. I would think that without the 2L/3L curve in play, grades should vastly improve but for whatever reason I have read that they do not carry the same weight.


I'm not sure I understand what this means.




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