Administrative Law

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hbcobra
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Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:47 pm

Administrative Law

Postby hbcobra » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:31 pm

Any thoughts? Generally easy or difficult? Utility? Thanks.

apparentlynew
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:56 am

Re: Administrative Law

Postby apparentlynew » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:41 pm

The class? The practice area?

For the class, it probably varies a lot by professor. I took it at NYU and I liked it. If you want to work in DC I bet (keep in mind that I bet = I don't actually know) it can be a helpful selling point for why you want to be there, and to convince someone that you really do have a preexisting interest in the field (of regulatory law, say).

Knowing the APA doesn't seem very important if you're going to do corporate work in NYC, though.

I thought it was very learnable, especially the canons, which people tend to make too big a deal over.

Green Crayons
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Administrative Law

Postby Green Crayons » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:24 pm

The class is a ton of fun is you really like procedure.

Actual practice isn't as fun.


edit: disclaimer: limited "actual practice" experience.

hbcobra
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Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:47 pm

Re: Administrative Law

Postby hbcobra » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:15 am

apparentlynew wrote:The class? The practice area?

For the class, it probably varies a lot by professor. I took it at NYU and I liked it. If you want to work in DC I bet (keep in mind that I bet = I don't actually know) it can be a helpful selling point for why you want to be there, and to convince someone that you really do have a preexisting interest in the field (of regulatory law, say).

Knowing the APA doesn't seem very important if you're going to do corporate work in NYC, though.

I thought it was very learnable, especially the canons, which people tend to make too big a deal over.


Green Crayons wrote:The class is a ton of fun is you really like procedure.

Actual practice isn't as fun.


edit: disclaimer: limited "actual practice" experience.


Thanks for the tips. I think I should have been a little more specific with my questions earlier. I apologize, I was kind of in a hurry.

I am interested in it as a class this semester. I don't have much info on the professor, so I am primarily concerned about the subject's interest and difficulty levels by itself. I don't know whether I would be interested in practicing in the field, so I'm wondering what kind of utility it has. Apparentlynew touched on that a little but I was hoping you could expand a little more. Is the subject matter worthwhile, or is this class really just a pure academic exercise? If I don't plan on working in DC as apparentlynew mentioned, does the class provide transferable skills and knowledge? Is it useful if I'm considering applying for clerkships? For someone who is still figuring out what he's interested in, if you had to choose one or the other, would you take admin law or federal courts?

Thanks!

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funkyturds
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:32 pm

Re: Administrative Law

Postby funkyturds » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:29 am

not that difficult, and i think it's worth taking. it's essentially a fourth branch of government and i feel like every lawyer should have at least some familiarity with its significance. plus it's a fun combination of con law and procedure, imo.

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Gamecubesupreme
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:54 pm

Re: Administrative Law

Postby Gamecubesupreme » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:03 am

Admin law is very important to learn.

But I hate the class so much.

apparentlynew
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:56 am

Re: Administrative Law

Postby apparentlynew » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:34 am

There's no one answer to your question, the best answer will depend on information you haven't told us, like

What are your goals?
Are you at a school where regulatory practice (I don't even know if that's a thing, I am just using the phrase for convenience, there may be dozens of subsections) is a realistic career, regionally?

Is it useful if I'm considering applying for clerkships? For someone who is still figuring out what he's interested in, if you had to choose one or the other, would you take admin law or federal courts?


What clerkships? State supreme court, magistrate judge, bankruptcy court, SCOTUS? They're all quite different. Some judges probably care very much that you know regulatory law while others might not care. If you wanted to clerk for Douglas Ginsburg, you'd probably need to have taken the class.

Federal courts, at least at NYU, is a notoriously gunner-heavy class packed to the brim with every Joe Meatball and Sally Housecoat who ever dreamed of clerking for an Art III judge. I would strongly encourage you not to take it your 2L year, because you need your 2L year grades to be good for a clerkship, and they may well dip dramatically in Fed Courts.

I think administrative law is very interesting and important . . . but whether you should take it depends on what you want to get out of it.

If all else is equal I say take classes with good professors.

Green Crayons
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Administrative Law

Postby Green Crayons » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:06 pm

hbcobra wrote:Thanks for the tips. I think I should have been a little more specific with my questions earlier. I apologize, I was kind of in a hurry.

I am interested in it as a class this semester. I don't have much info on the professor, so I am primarily concerned about the subject's interest and difficulty levels by itself. I don't know whether I would be interested in practicing in the field, so I'm wondering what kind of utility it has. Apparentlynew touched on that a little but I was hoping you could expand a little more. Is the subject matter worthwhile, or is this class really just a pure academic exercise? If I don't plan on working in DC as apparentlynew mentioned, does the class provide transferable skills and knowledge? Is it useful if I'm considering applying for clerkships? For someone who is still figuring out what he's interested in, if you had to choose one or the other, would you take admin law or federal courts?

Thanks!
The class isn't conceptually difficult if you "get" procedure; and even then, I can't recall anything that was nearly as obtuse as, say, the Erie doctrine. Always be aware of the curve, though. As a substantive material, it's all about whether the agency's process in question (rulemaking or adjudicative), or the judicial process of review of that agency action, is acceptable under the Constitution, the APA, and the organic statute. It's up to you if that sounds interesting or not.

You probably won't do much admin law unless if you're in or around DC, or you're doing state admin law. As for state admin law, the class may be helpful. My equally limited experience with state admin has been that it parallels -- though does not mimic -- federal admin law. As for utility, the class certainly helped orientate me with administrative law projects I was worked on (as a summer) but it was certainly not a prerequisite to practicing into the area (gleaned from speaking to practicing attorneys).

The substantive material is not really transferable, but you're going to be taking classes that aren't going to be prepare you for whatever practice you do end up in anyways. And if you don't ever practice admin law, it is still probably one of the better classes that is a good, educational course that you might want to take just as a citizen who should be informed about a very large sector of the government. For some reason people group Admin Law with Federal Courts as one of those classes that Art. III judges look for. I guess that might be true, but I did not find that to be the case when looking into SSC clerkships.

As for administrative law v. federal courts, take whichever sounds more interesting to you. If you are ultimately wanting to take both, take the one with the better curve first. If the curve is the same, take the better professor first.

hbcobra
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:47 pm

Re: Administrative Law

Postby hbcobra » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:32 pm

Thanks for the help everyone, I think I have a much clearer idea of what to do now. I truly appreciate your thoughts.




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