My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

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IHeartPhilly
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby IHeartPhilly » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:32 pm

OP, how confident did you feel going into finals week? I know it may be hard to say, given the nature of the curve but was a top 10%+ finish expected, or were you just hoping for the best?

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AVBucks4239
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby AVBucks4239 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:31 pm

victortsoi wrote:Do you guys read cases before supplements or supplements before cases? I'm just starting out and not sure what really "works". I'm leaning towards supplements then cases. (obviously in the same study session, though).

Like I said, supplements are the hardest thing to give advice for because everybody learns from them differently. I personally always read the cases first, then used the supplements when we were done with the entire topic (i.e. products liability). The reason why it's dangerous to go the other way (supplements before cases) is that your professor might not go over in the something that is stressed in the supplement.

Regardless of whether people do supplements before cases or cases before supplements, I think students would almost universally agree on two things:

1) You really need to learn how to read a case. This girl (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=176539) gave up on reading cases before she learned how to read them, and ended up median. Knowing how to extract the important facts/law from a case is a skill you need to acquire to succeed in law school. Most importantly, this skill will aid you in spotting issues/important facts when you're reading a fact pattern on an exam.

2) Probably 80% of the material you are learning isn't that difficult. If you're smart enough to get into law school, most of this stuff should be pretty straightforward (aside from a few topics in each class, like personal jurisdiction in CivPro, consideration in contracts, estates in property, etc.). Thus, a lot of time, you won't even need to consult a supplement.

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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby srfngdd6 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:39 pm

tag

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AVBucks4239
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby AVBucks4239 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:40 pm

IHeartPhilly wrote:OP, how confident did you feel going into finals week? I know it may be hard to say, given the nature of the curve but was a top 10%+ finish expected, or were you just hoping for the best?

I was confident, but definitely didn't think top 10% was a guarantee.

As a lot of you know, many TTT's "stack" sections. This means that the school places a majority of the scholarship students in the same section(s), then the curve does its job and forces students to lose their scholarship. It didn't take me long to realize I was in this stacked section. There were 3 sections totaling 128 students in my class, and in my section of about 43 people, at year's end, the #1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 11, and 13 students were in the section (i.e, more than 50% of the top 10% was in my section). This definitely kept me on my toes.

Despite all that, I was confident with my knowledge of the material and ability to write an exam. This is why it's so important to read TLS, Getting to Maybe, and other texts before school; and also why you need to stay on top of the material throughout the semester.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby AVBucks4239 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:02 pm

I could probably pay off my law school debt if TLS gave me a dollar for every time I segwayed with, "That said..."

Oh well haha.

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quiver
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby quiver » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:11 pm

This is a broader point, but I bring up the typing thing because what you should be trying to do with your study habits is eliminate any and all variables that you can control that could potentially inhibit you from success. Are you disorganized? Make an effort to stay organized. Are you a poor writer? Practice, read books, work very hard at it. Are you a slow typer? Get better. The list is endless, but you should fix things you can control.
Very good write up, OP. As you suggested, it's helpful to have these threads on TLS.

Just wanted to add to this section. This is certainly one way to combat your weaknesses (attempt to eliminate them), but I used a different method. I'm a decently slow typer (40-50 WPM) and instead of trying to up my typing speed I tried to compensate for it by learning how to quickly analyze a fact pattern (which is a useful skill anyway). By the time I hit exams, I was able to read the hypo and immediately start typing. Obviously this is tied into taking lots of practice exams, but I wanted to note that there is more than one way to overcome your vulnerabilities.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby AVBucks4239 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:18 pm

quiver wrote:
This is a broader point, but I bring up the typing thing because what you should be trying to do with your study habits is eliminate any and all variables that you can control that could potentially inhibit you from success. Are you disorganized? Make an effort to stay organized. Are you a poor writer? Practice, read books, work very hard at it. Are you a slow typer? Get better. The list is endless, but you should fix things you can control.
Very good write up, OP. As you suggested, it's helpful to have these threads on TLS.

Just wanted to add to this section. This is certainly one way to combat your weaknesses (attempt to eliminate them), but I used a different method. I'm a decently slow typer (40-50 WPM) and instead of trying to up my typing speed I tried to compensate for it by learning how to quickly analyze a fact pattern (which is a useful skill anyway). By the time I hit exams, I was able to read the hypo and immediately start typing. Obviously this is tied into taking lots of practice exams, but I wanted to note that there is more than one way to overcome your vulnerabilities.

Definitely a valid point. You could also master writing more efficiently, whereas my speed-typers just senselessly type on and on and really aren't getting much accomplished with their words.

But, the reason I brought it up is that I just think typing speed is something that can be improved fairly easily in a short amount of time (especially in your range). If you just upped your typing speed by 10 words per minute, that 600 words per hour. So over the course of three hours, that's 1800 more words, which is about 4-5 PAGES of more information you were able to write.

Just my two cents, though. People succeed doing things differently...that can't be said enough times.

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quiver
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby quiver » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:34 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:
quiver wrote:
This is a broader point, but I bring up the typing thing because what you should be trying to do with your study habits is eliminate any and all variables that you can control that could potentially inhibit you from success. Are you disorganized? Make an effort to stay organized. Are you a poor writer? Practice, read books, work very hard at it. Are you a slow typer? Get better. The list is endless, but you should fix things you can control.
Very good write up, OP. As you suggested, it's helpful to have these threads on TLS.

Just wanted to add to this section. This is certainly one way to combat your weaknesses (attempt to eliminate them), but I used a different method. I'm a decently slow typer (40-50 WPM) and instead of trying to up my typing speed I tried to compensate for it by learning how to quickly analyze a fact pattern (which is a useful skill anyway). By the time I hit exams, I was able to read the hypo and immediately start typing. Obviously this is tied into taking lots of practice exams, but I wanted to note that there is more than one way to overcome your vulnerabilities.

Definitely a valid point. You could also master writing more efficiently, whereas my speed-typers just senselessly type on and on and really aren't getting much accomplished with their words.

But, the reason I brought it up is that I just think typing speed is something that can be improved fairly easily in a short amount of time (especially in your range). If you just upped your typing speed by 10 words per minute, that 600 words per hour. So over the course of three hours, that's 1800 more words, which is about 4-5 PAGES of more information you were able to write.

Just my two cents, though. People succeed doing things differently...that can't be said enough times.
Another good point. However, professors usually prefer concise analysis over 4-5 extra pages of incoherent drivel. Obviously, if one could up their typing speed AND use those extra pages to add in other arguments (eg: policy) that would be ideal. I was clearly not smart enough to do that haha.

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Lacepiece23
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby Lacepiece23 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:43 pm

quiver wrote:
AVBucks4239 wrote:
quiver wrote:
This is a broader point, but I bring up the typing thing because what you should be trying to do with your study habits is eliminate any and all variables that you can control that could potentially inhibit you from success. Are you disorganized? Make an effort to stay organized. Are you a poor writer? Practice, read books, work very hard at it. Are you a slow typer? Get better. The list is endless, but you should fix things you can control.
Very good write up, OP. As you suggested, it's helpful to have these threads on TLS.

Just wanted to add to this section. This is certainly one way to combat your weaknesses (attempt to eliminate them), but I used a different method. I'm a decently slow typer (40-50 WPM) and instead of trying to up my typing speed I tried to compensate for it by learning how to quickly analyze a fact pattern (which is a useful skill anyway). By the time I hit exams, I was able to read the hypo and immediately start typing. Obviously this is tied into taking lots of practice exams, but I wanted to note that there is more than one way to overcome your vulnerabilities.

Definitely a valid point. You could also master writing more efficiently, whereas my speed-typers just senselessly type on and on and really aren't getting much accomplished with their words.

But, the reason I brought it up is that I just think typing speed is something that can be improved fairly easily in a short amount of time (especially in your range). If you just upped your typing speed by 10 words per minute, that 600 words per hour. So over the course of three hours, that's 1800 more words, which is about 4-5 PAGES of more information you were able to write.

Just my two cents, though. People succeed doing things differently...that can't be said enough times.
Another good point. However, professors usually prefer concise analysis over 4-5 extra pages of incoherent drivel. Obviously, if one could up their typing speed AND use those extra pages to add in other arguments (eg: policy) that would be ideal. I was clearly not smart enough to do that haha.


great read thank for doing this. I'm still a 0L but as far as the typing speed goes people could try a program like typing instructor I think it was like 30 dollars and I upped my speed by like 20 words per minute so far this summer. Granted I did start very low in my wpm and I had never typed with all ten fingers before, but still the program has definitely been more than helpful and it isn't really that boring. I saw these results just putting in like half and hour to an hour every night.

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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby AVBucks4239 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:46 pm

quiver wrote:
AVBucks4239 wrote:
quiver wrote:
This is a broader point, but I bring up the typing thing because what you should be trying to do with your study habits is eliminate any and all variables that you can control that could potentially inhibit you from success. Are you disorganized? Make an effort to stay organized. Are you a poor writer? Practice, read books, work very hard at it. Are you a slow typer? Get better. The list is endless, but you should fix things you can control.
Very good write up, OP. As you suggested, it's helpful to have these threads on TLS.

Just wanted to add to this section. This is certainly one way to combat your weaknesses (attempt to eliminate them), but I used a different method. I'm a decently slow typer (40-50 WPM) and instead of trying to up my typing speed I tried to compensate for it by learning how to quickly analyze a fact pattern (which is a useful skill anyway). By the time I hit exams, I was able to read the hypo and immediately start typing. Obviously this is tied into taking lots of practice exams, but I wanted to note that there is more than one way to overcome your vulnerabilities.

Definitely a valid point. You could also master writing more efficiently, whereas my speed-typers just senselessly type on and on and really aren't getting much accomplished with their words.

But, the reason I brought it up is that I just think typing speed is something that can be improved fairly easily in a short amount of time (especially in your range). If you just upped your typing speed by 10 words per minute, that 600 words per hour. So over the course of three hours, that's 1800 more words, which is about 4-5 PAGES of more information you were able to write.

Just my two cents, though. People succeed doing things differently...that can't be said enough times.
Another good point. However, professors usually prefer concise analysis over 4-5 extra pages of incoherent drivel. Obviously, if one could up their typing speed AND use those extra pages to add in other arguments (eg: policy) that would be ideal. I was clearly not smart enough to do that haha.

This, this, this. Spot on and couldn't agree more.

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facile princeps
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby facile princeps » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:48 pm

Awesome post. Thank you.

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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:57 pm

Wow, this is great. Thanks!

anon5225
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby anon5225 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:15 pm

Before I started law school I thought these types of threads were generally full of wisdom.

Now I realize that, except for a few key points of advice, these threads may as well be tips about how to pick lotto numbers.

shock259
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby shock259 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:02 pm

anon5225 wrote:Before I started law school I thought these types of threads were generally full of wisdom.

Now I realize that, except for a few key points of advice, these threads may as well be tips about how to pick lotto numbers.


Not sure what you mean. Law school grades are unpredictable?

Also, great thread OP

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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby thewaterlanding » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:10 pm

tag

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Claudius
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby Claudius » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:11 am

Interesting. I go to the same school as you but I was in the 1LE class. Did you manage to convince anyone to give you any more money since they will be raising tuition 10% every year?

I agree with a lot that you have written. I'm on the fence about any 0L stuff. I started to read Getting to Maybe and I did the audio portion of LEEWS. LEEWS was good for giving me an idea of what exams were about, but I threw practically everything out the window once it was time to perform. As you mentioned, the single most important thing is to give your professor what he or she wants. Still, I don't know how I can recommend doing nothing pre-law school when I was incapable of keeping myself away from law school literature.

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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby DonDrapersAttorney » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:26 am

After all the guides I've read, I never thought there'd be one I liked more than Lazy's. You proved me wrong. Great job, good luck with 2L. I'll be linking people to this for weeks to come. Kudos.

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Dash41
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby Dash41 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:27 pm

I love your threads. I'm really following your advice on your guide as well as your organization thread you made last Fall. I was wondering why you decided just to integrate your case briefs into your lecture notes? On your organization thread the case briefs have their own section for your first semester, but in one of your examples in this thread I see its gone and incorporated in your lecture notes. Just curious as I attempt to become organized for my first semester.

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Mick Haller
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby Mick Haller » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:33 pm

shock259 wrote:
anon5225 wrote:Before I started law school I thought these types of threads were generally full of wisdom.

Now I realize that, except for a few key points of advice, these threads may as well be tips about how to pick lotto numbers.


Not sure what you mean. Law school grades are unpredictable?

Also, great thread OP


I think he means that what works for one person may not work for others. I haven't read OP's tl;dr, since I've already graduated, but as for me, I wish I had spent more time during 1L studying my notes, and studying outlines prepared by other students. To me, supplements are a time sink.

And I wouldn't have worried about getting cold-called. I don't think reading the casebook is all that helpful in preparing for an exam.

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941law
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby 941law » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:04 pm

101 ways to pass law school.

Personally, I've been doing online canned case briefs, then lightly read the actual case, then refer to a supplement on that particular subject - all before class. Class reinforces the law and reasoning and if I'm cold-called on about the case I'm ready (well, ready enough).

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AVBucks4239
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby AVBucks4239 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:57 pm

Claudius wrote:Interesting. I go to the same school as you but I was in the 1LE class. Did you manage to convince anyone to give you any more money since they will be raising tuition 10% every year?

I agree with a lot that you have written. I'm on the fence about any 0L stuff. I started to read Getting to Maybe and I did the audio portion of LEEWS. LEEWS was good for giving me an idea of what exams were about, but I threw practically everything out the window once it was time to perform. As you mentioned, the single most important thing is to give your professor what he or she wants. Still, I don't know how I can recommend doing nothing pre-law school when I was incapable of keeping myself away from law school literature.

From what some people have told me, there really isn't any scholarship negotiation to be had. I will probably try if I end up getting accepted into Ohio State (knock on wood).

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AVBucks4239
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby AVBucks4239 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:59 pm

Dash41 wrote:I love your threads. I'm really following your advice on your guide as well as your organization thread you made last Fall. I was wondering why you decided just to integrate your case briefs into your lecture notes? On your organization thread the case briefs have their own section for your first semester, but in one of your examples in this thread I see its gone and incorporated in your lecture notes. Just curious as I attempt to become organized for my first semester.

I originally had briefs separate, then I realized all I was doing was summarizing the brief into my lecture notes. It was just a giant copy-paste orgy. Thus, I made the decision to quit doing normal case briefs and just putting brief case summaries directly into my lecture notes.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby AVBucks4239 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:01 pm

anon5225 wrote:Before I started law school I thought these types of threads were generally full of wisdom.

Now I realize that, except for a few key points of advice, these threads may as well be tips about how to pick lotto numbers.

941law wrote:101 ways to pass law school.

Personally, I've been doing online canned case briefs, then lightly read the actual case, then refer to a supplement on that particular subject - all before class. Class reinforces the law and reasoning and if I'm cold-called on about the case I'm ready (well, ready enough).

These two posts are related in the sense that there is no perfect guide and no "right" way to do law school. No matter how much you read, you have to figure out what works best for you. That is probably the only universal thing about law school.

RPK34
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby RPK34 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:22 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:
anon5225 wrote:Before I started law school I thought these types of threads were generally full of wisdom.

Now I realize that, except for a few key points of advice, these threads may as well be tips about how to pick lotto numbers.

941law wrote:101 ways to pass law school.

Personally, I've been doing online canned case briefs, then lightly read the actual case, then refer to a supplement on that particular subject - all before class. Class reinforces the law and reasoning and if I'm cold-called on about the case I'm ready (well, ready enough).

These two posts are related in the sense that there is no perfect guide and no "right" way to do law school. No matter how much you read, you have to figure out what works best for you. That is probably the only universal thing about law school.


This is absolutely correct. 1. Learn the material. 2. Figure out what the prof wants. 3. Learn how to write an exam that reflects what the prof wants.

That's what law school comes down to. People get there in many different ways. Some swear through supplements, some love the casebook, some love old outlines, some love past exams, some just burn through 60 hours a week studying. 1ls take a million different paths, and those who do well figure out how to do it quickly.

And then a huge part of it is just natural ability. Some people see how the law is laid out very easily and can see what the prof wants while spending 10 hours a week studying and Gchatting throug class. Some people will follow do their best and end up at median.

nouseforaname123
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Re: My Guide to Top 10% at a TTT (and Probably All Schools)

Postby nouseforaname123 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:22 am

RPK34 wrote:And then a huge part of it is just natural ability. Some people see how the law is laid out very easily and can see what the prof wants while spending 10 hours a week studying and Gchatting throug class. Some people will follow do their best and end up at median.


IMHO, this is correct and the source of frustration and complaints about the arbitrary nature of law school grading. Some people are just wired for law school exams and there isn't much that can be done to beat those people out.

No amount of color-coded highlighting or studying for 12 hours on even numbered days of the month and 14 hours on odd numbered days of the month or E&E's or briefs on one tab of OneNote and class notes on another is going to completely make up for that deficit in natural ability.




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