Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

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I.P. Daly
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby I.P. Daly » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:03 pm

JDs can still go by "Doctor," right? :D

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bjsesq
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby bjsesq » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:03 pm

Ohiobumpkin wrote:I'm an 0L, so please, have mercy. I have heard that law professors are sometimes terrible at teaching. These professors might publish brilliant papers, but they are unable to effectively teach a class. Perhaps requiring law professors to possess a Ph.D in Law would lead to greater numbers of law professors with better teaching skills.


In general, I've found that my Prof.'s shitty teaching has less to do with ability and more to do with their obscenely large egos telling them they are free to do whatever they want. At least two have openly admitted it.

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dingbat
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby dingbat » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:22 pm

I.P. Daly wrote:JDs can still go by "Doctor," right? :D

That's even douchier than going by esquire

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:27 pm

inb4 Campos, Leiter, MTal alt.

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spleenworship
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:58 pm

Ohiobumpkin wrote:I'm an 0L, so please, have mercy. I have heard that law professors are sometimes terrible at teaching. These professors might publish brilliant papers, but they are unable to effectively teach a class. Perhaps requiring law professors to possess a Ph.D in Law would lead to greater numbers of law professors with better teaching skills.


LOL

chasgoose
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby chasgoose » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:07 pm

I don't see what the big deal is. This seems like a better version of the various post-grad positions available at various law schools (Lawyering @ NYU, Bigelow @ Chicago, Climenko @ Harvard, etc.). Except instead of having to spend most of their time teaching inept 1L's how to string words together they get to focus on the things that actually get them jobs in legal academia (publishable work). It's not a money grab since the candidates will get free housing and a living stipend. I can easily see this becoming the most desirable/competitive version of the above mentioned post-grad programs for those who want to do academia.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:14 pm

chasgoose wrote:I don't see what the big deal is. This seems like a better version of the various post-grad positions available at various law schools (Lawyering @ NYU, Bigelow @ Chicago, Climenko @ Harvard, etc.). Except instead of having to spend most of their time teaching inept 1L's how to string words together they get to focus on the things that actually get them jobs in legal academia (publishable work). It's not a money grab since the candidates will get free housing and a living stipend. I can easily see this becoming the most desirable/competitive version of the above mentioned post-grad programs for those who want to do academia.


Maybe. The Yale name might deal with the difference in track record. Even with the stipend, though, you fall short on pay, and the extra year is going to be a drawback for many people.

The materials mention that the PhDs will have teaching opportunities/obligations, but don't do much to clarify. If they have something of a choice, and get to teach classes in their area of research, that could be huge--Bigelows sometimes teach non-LRW classes, but not always.

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BearState
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby BearState » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:57 am

I wonder if this will become a prerequisite to any legal professor job. Why hire someone with just a JD when you can hire someone with a PhD in Law from Yale?

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby Sauer Grapes » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:00 am

BearState wrote:I wonder if this will become a prerequisite to any legal professor job. Why hire someone with just a JD when you can hire someone with a PhD in Law from Yale?

I know that some law schools have a strong preference for PhDs when hiring professors. But usually the PhD is in a different field than law such as economics, finance, philosophy, etc.

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2014
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby 2014 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:38 am

Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?

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Broseidon
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby Broseidon » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:39 am

2014 wrote:Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?

This is a fantastic point.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:48 pm

Broseidon wrote:
2014 wrote:Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?

This is a fantastic point.

It's a good question. I think Leiter's point on this is well taken, that this PhD is basically the equivalent of a post-JD fellowship/VAP with the degree. It's three years, you take a few seminars, you teach and you write. You already see VAPs and Fellows teaching classes, and I doubt this would be any different since it's a post-JD class.

Also, here's Leiter's response about it. I actually think it's central thesis is a good point.
--LinkRemoved--

Younger Abstention
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby Younger Abstention » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:55 am

This will no doubt be a great program for aspiring legal academics, and I'm sure admission will be incredibly competitive. This program isn't going to be for people who "couldn't get a job."

hiima3L
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby hiima3L » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:38 am

2014 wrote:Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?


There will be a number of ways in which students may fulfill the teaching requirement. They may include (1) serving as a teaching assistant for a Law School course; (2) serving as a teaching assistant for a course in Yale College or another school at Yale; (3) co-teaching a class with a faculty member; and, (4) in unusual situations, teaching their own class.

http://www.law.yale.edu/graduate/phd_courseofstudy.htm

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:14 am

hiima3L wrote:
2014 wrote:Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?


There will be a number of ways in which students may fulfill the teaching requirement. They may include (1) serving as a teaching assistant for a Law School course; (2) serving as a teaching assistant for a course in Yale College or another school at Yale; (3) co-teaching a class with a faculty member; and, (4) in unusual situations, teaching their own class.

http://www.law.yale.edu/graduate/phd_courseofstudy.htm

Lol I'd rather be a Bigelow.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:17 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
hiima3L wrote:
2014 wrote:Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?


There will be a number of ways in which students may fulfill the teaching requirement. They may include (1) serving as a teaching assistant for a Law School course; (2) serving as a teaching assistant for a course in Yale College or another school at Yale; (3) co-teaching a class with a faculty member; and, (4) in unusual situations, teaching their own class.

http://www.law.yale.edu/graduate/phd_courseofstudy.htm

Lol I'd rather be a Bigelow.


Yep.

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dextermorgan
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby dextermorgan » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:40 am

Doorkeeper wrote:I think this is a brilliant move by Yale.

Oxford has had great success over the years with it's DPhil in Jurisprudence and there's nothing in the US that matches the program. This will only reinforce Yale as the preeminent place to study law for legal academia, and it will better prepare people for legal academia. Nothing prepares an aspiring academic for the life of a professor at a research university more than a dissertation.

Yale is also one of the few schools that can leverage its Top 10 PhD programs in Political Science, Philosophy, History, and Law that can make the PhD worthwhile. For students interested in teaching at a T1 school, the 5-6 combined years this program would take is definitely better than the 7-8 years a typical JD/PhD would take.

Edit- In addition, YLS has really made strides in recent history to hire faculty outside of black letter law. I assume this will only heighten this hiring trend at Yale, which would definitely be for the betterment of the PhD students.

Lol at Yale calling three law review articles a dissertation.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby Doorkeeper » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:47 am

dextermorgan wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:I think this is a brilliant move by Yale.

Oxford has had great success over the years with it's DPhil in Jurisprudence and there's nothing in the US that matches the program. This will only reinforce Yale as the preeminent place to study law for legal academia, and it will better prepare people for legal academia. Nothing prepares an aspiring academic for the life of a professor at a research university more than a dissertation.

Yale is also one of the few schools that can leverage its Top 10 PhD programs in Political Science, Philosophy, History, and Law that can make the PhD worthwhile. For students interested in teaching at a T1 school, the 5-6 combined years this program would take is definitely better than the 7-8 years a typical JD/PhD would take.

Edit- In addition, YLS has really made strides in recent history to hire faculty outside of black letter law. I assume this will only heighten this hiring trend at Yale, which would definitely be for the betterment of the PhD students.

Lol at Yale calling three law review articles a dissertation.

Yea...well you get hired and tenure at law schools through the strength of your law review articles, so although it's not really fair compared to most PhD dissertations, it makes sense given the market.

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mattviphky
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Re: Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law

Postby mattviphky » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:10 am

Broseidon wrote:
2014 wrote:Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?

This is a fantastic point.


But they already have the Yale JD, so they are qualified as it stands.




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