Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

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darkarmour
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby darkarmour » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:29 am

damn guys.. i dont know how much more i can take.
Last edited by darkarmour on Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

legends159
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby legends159 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:05 am

timbs4339 wrote:Anyone who's done both Barbri and the NCBE questions want to weigh in on the differences? I'm doing my first half-day practice on the NCBE questions tomorrow.


Please report your observations for those of us too cheap to fork over more money for this nonesense.

hiima3L
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby hiima3L » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:52 am

timbs4339 wrote:Anyone who's done both Barbri and the NCBE questions want to weigh in on the differences? I'm doing my first half-day practice on the NCBE questions tomorrow.


TL;DR I think they're a bit easier but have more variation in format. Also, I didn't bother with the last few MPQs after hearing how stupid they were.

I just spent the past few days doing a ton of them, and overall, the most notable thing is the length. Real ones are, on average, WAY shorter. Tons of them are 1 to 3 lines. There are still the annoying-as-balls page-long property ones, but they're not as common. So if your timing is good for Barbri, you'll have plenty of time for the real thing.

I think they are easier than Barbri ones because in general they not only test more general stuff that isn't buried in the CMR, but also because they have clear, obviously correct answers. There are some super nit-picky ones though, and some annoying "this answer is right but not the best," as well as some that you just have to assume the right answer is what the question assumes, which can be annoying (e.g., B is right because the evidence is admissible for X, even though there's no facts about what exactly it's being offered for).

I've noticed a few formats that I've never seen with Barbri. There are some really difficult ones that give you a list of 3-4 concepts and ask which ones are relevant, which ones will be decisive, etc., and can be just one or all 4. Those sometimes take wayyyy longer. There are ones that give you a hypo and say why is this the correct result (e.g., Congress regulated something in interstate commerce = the commerce clause gives Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce). Another tricky one are criminal questions that give you a short hypo and the result and then 4 hypo cases to apply as applicable precedent.

I am really glad I forked over the money because it was a really helpful way for me to study. If you're interested in the site, PM me (so mods don't think I'm spamming).

timbs4339
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:41 pm

legends159 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:Anyone who's done both Barbri and the NCBE questions want to weigh in on the differences? I'm doing my first half-day practice on the NCBE questions tomorrow.


Please report your observations for those of us too cheap to fork over more money for this nonesense.


First impression: The questions are shorter but not unbelievably so, for example there are a few that are multiple paragraphs. They test some stuff that was not on BarBri or they use different terminology but nothing you won't have a problem with. There are fewer of those bullshit Barbri interpretive questions where they ask you to judge whether the person was acting reasonably. The questions overall have fewer individual issues that pop up so there is less of a chance you won't remember a rule to some issue. There are also more gimme questions that are obvious. I didn't notice any weird question types.

I ended up scoring 10 percentage points higher than my Barbri practice MBEs.

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joobacca
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby joobacca » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:48 am

did you guys get this from NBCE site? it can't hurt seeing some real questions.

to everyone, especially those in ca, what's your final week plan? and for ca exam takers, how are you treating the performance test? i am ok at that shit, but a lot of room to improve i'm sure. seems like a lot of points you can get for something that's a lot more in your control at exam time than other sections. i am curious what you guys think.

sbalive
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby sbalive » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:31 pm

joobacca wrote:did you guys get this from NBCE site? it can't hurt seeing some real questions.

to everyone, especially those in ca, what's your final week plan? and for ca exam takers, how are you treating the performance test? i am ok at that shit, but a lot of room to improve i'm sure. seems like a lot of points you can get for something that's a lot more in your control at exam time than other sections. i am curious what you guys think.


Going through every essay (I didn't keep up with the BarBri schedule) & even if I don't write it fully, writing down all of the rule statements. And if I don't remember them, rewriting and rewriting. I'm close to running out of MBE questions, so I've tailed off on that because I don't feel like springing $150 for what sound like, if anything, easier questions. Not sure how to stay fresh on those, since it looks like StudySmart (which I just turned on) is just the same questions we've already seen. Might just go back and redo old sets?

As for the MPT, I was going to pick a day when I'm feeling burned out next week to go through the curveballs like drafting a will or witness exam (which BarBri sort of left as an afterthought). As for the more routine problems, I feel like as long as you have the typical experience from law school / clinics / internships in objective & persuasive writing, it's gonna be hard to improve by practicing at this stage.

sbalive
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby sbalive » Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:42 pm

f7 wrote:Are you guys doing all the essays or just the released ones?


I'm trying to hit all of them, since the state released ones only go back a few years & some issues haven't been on for a while.

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joobacca
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby joobacca » Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:55 pm

i agree that my analytical ability (talking performance test) won't improve at this stage, but i am looking for strategies to organize the facts and law. it's kind of a time crunch.

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Rocky Estoppel
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby Rocky Estoppel » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:19 pm

Still getting only 60% - 70% on Barbri practice questions/tests; at times as low as 50% (but not often) :evil:

ak362
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby ak362 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:38 am

FWIW, MPQ2 of the Barbri set has some of the NCBEX's released questions.

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joobacca
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby joobacca » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:53 am

i fucking hate this shit. i have been studying every goddamn day for at least 10 hours for the last two weeks. and it's impossible to remember this garbage.

ak362
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby ak362 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:59 am

I don't know what I'm weaker at right now -- MBE or the state essays. I feel like I'm failing at both so I'm waffling trying to figure out what I need to prioritize.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:04 pm

joobacca wrote:i fucking hate this shit. i have been studying every goddamn day for at least 10 hours for the last two weeks. and it's impossible to remember this garbage.

timbs4339
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:39 pm

joobacca wrote:i fucking hate this shit. i have been studying every goddamn day for at least 10 hours for the last two weeks. and it's impossible to remember this garbage.


What do you guys think a 2-3 on the NY Essays looks like? I'm aiming for a 4-5 average.

timbs4339
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:34 pm

f7 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
joobacca wrote:i fucking hate this shit. i have been studying every goddamn day for at least 10 hours for the last two weeks. and it's impossible to remember this garbage.


What do you guys think a 2-3 on the NY Essays looks like? I'm aiming for a 4-5 average.

Releasing a bunch of 5 point answers would be much more helpful than the stupid model answers they give us.


Right. Even like a 2-3 point answer. I know I can spot issues and analyze with the rest of them, but I'm not going to be able to memorize the law by next week. If I makeup/misstate/do MBE rules on the NY essays I want to know that I'm not going to get a 1.

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fenix916
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby fenix916 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:37 pm

So I will say this upfront: I'm taking the bar in Passachusetts.

So I got a 118 on the simulated MBE with barbri, but at that point I hadn't watched the con law lectures and I hadn't really done any studying other than watch lectures. Before the simulated MBE I did a few MPQ1 sets and was at or above the average/target from barbri. I would also do like sets of 36 random studysmart MBE questions and was getting around 60% right.

Since the simulated MBE, I watched con law lectures, did some more practice questions and made some flashcards for topics I didn't know well. Consequently, I've gone to getting like 80%+ right when I do random study smart MBE questions. I got a 65 on the Final simulated exam (average supposedly is 56-8), and I got a 91% (33/36) on the last mixed MPQ set I did (MPQ2 set 1).

I have not done shit for the essays yet though. I turned in 5 essays to Babri for grading and I got a range between 4.25-5.5 points. Barbri says we should aim for a mix of 4s and 5s.

Should I scale way back on the MBE and just pound out essays? The last 4 or 5 MBE practice sets I was doing significantly better than average (the worst was the 65 on the FSE, and that was still 6-8 questions better than the average).

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joobacca
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby joobacca » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:17 pm

not sure about MA bar exam format, but i'd do a shitload of essays and a mixed set each day. if you keep the mbe sharp then i assume you'll get a lot of carry over points. at this point, i wouldn't write out essays. i probably wouldn't write them even if i had a lot of time. anyway, you can go through a ton of essays from now until next week. judging by the "good" essays i've seen for the california bar, i think knowing the elements for rules is important so i'd make a concerted effort to memorize them as you go through the essays. the application that i see on the "good" essays that barbri provides are pretty shallow. and the fact patterns make the major issues pretty obvious. you just need to know those elements.

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RVP11
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby RVP11 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:25 pm

I got a 156 on the BarBri simulated MBE and am wondering if spending time on the MBE at this point is just a waste. But it's just so much more fun than doing essays...

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:45 pm

RVP11 wrote:I got a 156 on the BarBri simulated MBE and am wondering if spending time on the MBE at this point is just a waste. But it's just so much more fun than doing essays...



:lol:

Does your state require a 170 raw to pass?

If not, then I wouldn't sweat the MBE, breh.

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fenix916
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby fenix916 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:23 pm

joobacca wrote:not sure about MA bar exam format, but i'd do a shitload of essays and a mixed set each day. if you keep the mbe sharp then i assume you'll get a lot of carry over points. at this point, i wouldn't write out essays. i probably wouldn't write them even if i had a lot of time. anyway, you can go through a ton of essays from now until next week. judging by the "good" essays i've seen for the california bar, i think knowing the elements for rules is important so i'd make a concerted effort to memorize them as you go through the essays. the application that i see on the "good" essays that barbri provides are pretty shallow. and the fact patterns make the major issues pretty obvious. you just need to know those elements.


yea good call. I should add part of the reason I hadn't been studying essays is my school came through and cleaned out my locker and threw out my state essay book from barbri. Even though they saved my gym clothes and an old E&E, they claim they threw out the barbri book with my name, email, and phone number in the cover. so my replacement from barbri just showed up.

ak362
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby ak362 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:28 pm

Things I wish I knew before starting BarBri: CMR is credited, lectures hit or miss/not so much.

legends159
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby legends159 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:30 pm

ak362 wrote:Things I wish I knew before starting BarBri: CMR is credited, lectures hit or miss/not so much.


TBF it is much easier to sit through a 3 hour lecture than read the CMR. But yes the CMR is pretty essential cause the lectures don't cover everything

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joobacca
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby joobacca » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:59 pm

legends159 wrote:
ak362 wrote:Things I wish I knew before starting BarBri: CMR is credited, lectures hit or miss/not so much.


TBF it is much easier to sit through a 3 hour lecture than read the CMR. But yes the CMR is pretty essential cause the lectures don't cover everything


i agree. unfortunately i read the CMR outlines for only a handful of classes. i remember a lot of the lecturers basically saying there's no need to read CMR. but i'm not going to fault barbri. if i was on my shit, which will probably never happen, i could have saved myself the last 4K of my savings (god i regret not taking my mom's offer to pay for this shit) and figured out how to take a bar for less than 1K easily. but... i'm too lazy. i'm too lazy and don't have enough time now to read CMR. i think knowing those lectures well will be enough to pass. i think barbri knows that a lot of its customers are morons like me. at least they're giving us a good chance to pass anyway.

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RVP11
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby RVP11 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:00 pm

ak362 wrote:Things I wish I knew before starting BarBri: CMR is credited, lectures hit or miss/not so much.


Reading/outlining the CMR for MBE subjects: credited.

Reading/outlining the CMR for essay subjects: way more than you need to pass.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Bar Prep - How are you guys doing on multiple choice?

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:14 pm

RVP11 wrote:
ak362 wrote:Things I wish I knew before starting BarBri: CMR is credited, lectures hit or miss/not so much.


Reading/outlining the CMR for MBE subjects: credited.

Reading/outlining the CMR for essay subjects: way more than you need to pass.


This. Use everything they give you for the MBE subjects. Just get the basics down for the state subjects. You get less bang for your buck. Also, they repeat the same kinds of questions for the state essay topics, at least in California. So it's a lot more effective to focus on practice essays and essay strategy rather than bulldozing your way through the CMR for state topics.




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