Bottom 20% ― What Now??

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MrAnon
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Re: Bottom 20% ― What Now??

Postby MrAnon » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:32 pm

Most people who decide to go to a non T14 are at least vaguely aware of the risks, they just think it won't happen to them that they will finish outside of the top 20%.

Then they finish outside the top 20% after 1L. At that point the same mindset prevails: they think that not finding a job won't happen to them, or otherwise that they will be the one in a million who overcomes terrible grades to finish first in class.

Or they stay in law school for the same reason they started: they don't know what else to do with themselves. You are only really forced to start thinking about that after you graduate and can't find a legal job. At that point you tend to adapt fairly rapidly to whatever kind of unpleasant work is available or that couldn't be hacked after college.

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Pate
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Re: Bottom 20% ― What Now??

Postby Pate » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:39 am

I think it would be interesting to hear from those who are now facing the dilemma of staying or going. What tilts the decision―debt, pride, eternal hope or something else?

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sunynp
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Re: Bottom 20% ― What Now??

Postby sunynp » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:04 am

timbs4339 wrote:It really depends on what other options you have.

IMO, anyone who is bottom 20% at a T14 should be conducting a non-law permanent job search concurrent with their summer 1L internship. Many people at a T14 are the types of people (elite UG, high grades there, maybe a few years of well-paying or prestigious WE) who will have other options.

For some people, though, law school may be the only way to reasonably break into a middle-class, white-collar job out of college.

Some people just want to be a lawyer very badly. Okay. But most people who go to law school want to be a lawyer, but also value having a comfortable career.

Debt is also a factor. Luckily the T14 do not have grade stipulations (yet!). A T14 education for half-price + two more years of avoiding the real world might be worth it to some.


The problems is that the belief that law school will allow you to break into middle class is an illusion. At least half of law grads won't get jobs. They will probably never practice law. Staying in school and paying a fortune to be qualified for a job that you will never have is a huge financial mistake.

Most people in the bottom 20% should drop out now. They will have debt they can't pay for a job they will never get. I would say even the bottom 30%.

There was a thread here asking what 2Ls wished they had known before they started law school. One poster said something like " I wish I had really known how bad the employment market was. It wasn't until I was in OCI that I realized I was one interview away from having ruined my life financially." When I asked him how he didn't know that ahead of time with all the information out about employment, he said something like "I was so caught up of the excitement of being accepted and going to school, that I didn't think about it. I knew things were bad but not how bad until OCI."

Even people here who know the difficulty people without the grades or connections are going to have done advocate dropping out when it comes down to it. Very few people here will outright say, "yes, drop out, it is the best decision for you."

People still blame the student for not getting a job. The economy is the reason, the jobs don't exist.

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Shooter
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Re: Bottom 20% ― What Now??

Postby Shooter » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:14 am

Do you guys think this situation is significantly different/better at HYS? Or are bottom third still screwed?

HeavenWood
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Re: Bottom 20% ― What Now??

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:20 am

Pate wrote:For those at the bottom 20% or bottom third at a T-14, is it your T-14 status that is keeping you going? Are you hanging all your hopes on OCI? If OCI doesn’t come through, what is your Plan B?

I suppose the same question, although figuring in less-status, could be asked for those whose school is a Tier 1.

For everyone else, at or near the bottom (or even at median) at a T II/III school, what is driving you to stay? Is it being hit with immediate debt repayment or something else?

Bottom 1/3 at a T14 can still snag something decent--a Vault-ranked job, even (depending on the T14). Bottom. 20% is pretty iffy though, save for YHS.

sparty99
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Re: Bottom 20% ― What Now??

Postby sparty99 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:00 am

I am T50. I don't leave because of a scholly, I landed a firm job first summer, and dropping out and making $50k and explaining why I dropped out doesn't make sense. I might as well finish and see what happens.

If I can get a 50K job now, why not take my chances and get a $50k job after law (wheter it is legal or non-legal). Sure, I can go jobless. But I would be jobless if I dropped out now. And of course, my goal is not $50k, it is $80k ++++++++++. My first goal is try to get an offer to return. If that don't happen, I'm talking to firms and we won't be talking about grades, but we will talk about my summer experience.

I also have a game plan called, "apply, apply, apply, apply, apply." This strategy has worked so far. I am uneasy about my position, but drop out? Jigga please.

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sunynp
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Re: Bottom 20% ― What Now??

Postby sunynp » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:03 am

sparty99 wrote:I am T50. I don't leave because of a scholly, I landed a firm job first summer, and dropping out and making $50k and explaining why I dropped out doesn't make sense. I might as well finish and see what happens.

If I can get a 50K job now, why not take my chances and get a $50k job after law (wheter it is legal or non-legal). Sure, I can go jobless. But I would be jobless if I dropped out now. And of course, my goal is not $50k, it is $80k ++++++++++. My first goal is try to get an offer to return. If that don't happen, I'm talking to firms and we won't be talking about grades, but we will talk about my summer experience.

I also have a game plan called, "apply, apply, apply, apply, apply." This strategy has worked so far. I am uneasy about my position, but drop out? Jigga please.


You're right. The position is too broad to just say drop out if bottom 30%. Though I think people in that position should seriously consider dropping out. But most people in the bottom will not end up with a job like you have or a scholarship like you have. If your debt load is something you can manage, then stay for sure.




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