Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

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Renne Walker
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby Renne Walker » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:33 am

rayiner wrote:
Cade McNown wrote:(1) at least a narrower range of schools than not YHSCCN, b/c Penn =/= Georgetttown.


For someone with bad grades, it really is. If you find yourself with a 3.0 at either school after 1L, you're pretty well and fucked. Even at Penn for C/O 2011, there were a dozen people not working, another dozen at small firms, another dozen in school-funded jobs, etc.

I do not know the P class size, but if it is 250, you are then saying 15% are underwater. ITE I suppsoe that might be possible.

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espressocream
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby espressocream » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:37 am

Thanks for being honest.

I guess my question would be: You've been on TLS, you've seen all the warnings about "don't go to law school to make money", so even after all that - why'd you still go?

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Lawquacious
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:50 am

Edit: my apologies. Had a rough night and took it out on the boards here. I don't think dropping out is often as good an idea as many TLS ppl do, but I understand there are good reasons for doing so and that it can work out really well for ppl, so I wish you all the best.
Last edited by Lawquacious on Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:55 am

danquayle wrote:I agree with Rayiner. Really not getting all the hate that people are flinging at this guy for voicing an experience and decision that is woefully unexplored on this forum. Dropping out after 1L surely makes sense for a lot of people.
.


+1

Law school and the law profession aren't for everyone. A lot of people are really miserable in this profession. I've talked about it with my boss from my summer internship, actually, and he thinks people he knew personally should've dropped out of the path when they weren't quite as trapped (kids, etc.).

ajaxconstructions
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby ajaxconstructions » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:02 am

Renne Walker wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Cade McNown wrote:(1) at least a narrower range of schools than not YHSCCN, b/c Penn =/= Georgetttown.


For someone with bad grades, it really is. If you find yourself with a 3.0 at either school after 1L, you're pretty well and fucked. Even at Penn for C/O 2011, there were a dozen people not working, another dozen at small firms, another dozen in school-funded jobs, etc.

I do not know the P class size, but if it is 250, you are then saying 15% are underwater. ITE I suppsoe that might be possible.


Lol at you thinking that 15% being proper fucked at Penn is a conservative estimate.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:04 am

acrossthelake wrote:
danquayle wrote:I agree with Rayiner. Really not getting all the hate that people are flinging at this guy for voicing an experience and decision that is woefully unexplored on this forum. Dropping out after 1L surely makes sense for a lot of people.
.


+1

Law school and the law profession aren't for everyone. A lot of people are really miserable in this profession. I've talked about it with my boss from my summer internship, actually, and he thinks people he knew personally should've dropped out of the path when they weren't quite as trapped (kids, etc.).



Yeah, except having an actual professional degree instead of none usually works out better for people even if they end up going an alternative route (imo).

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby Sauer Grapes » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:04 am

Lawquacious wrote:How does it feel to be totally fucked as opposed to partially fucked?

This is a perfect example of the douchiness that OP was talking about.

The obvious answer to your question, probably a lot better than if he had stayed in an ended up in the same position with more debt.

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Scotchandsoda
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby Scotchandsoda » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:09 am

Cade McNown wrote:
delusional wrote:Not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

The point, since I haven't been clear apparently, is that an AMA thread only works if OP actually answers questions. OP may very well have useful advice to give, but if OP insists on revealing very little, there's not much use. And from the little that OP has revealed, it is hardly unreasonable to suggest that OP's decision to drop out was unprincipled, and that therefore this OP might be untrustworthy -- a conclusion relevant to 0Ls or similarly situated 1Ls.


STFU

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Lawquacious
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:11 am

.
Last edited by Lawquacious on Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

guinness1547
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby guinness1547 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:14 am

Lawquacious wrote:
Sauer Grapes wrote:
Lawquacious wrote:How does it feel to be totally fucked as opposed to partially fucked?

This is a perfect example of the douchiness that OP was talking about.

The obvious answer to your question, probably a lot better than if he had stayed in an ended up in the same position with more debt.


Wrong.


With a degree in bio and a family willing to help with the loans, I would have to disagree.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:18 am

Lawquacious wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
danquayle wrote:I agree with Rayiner. Really not getting all the hate that people are flinging at this guy for voicing an experience and decision that is woefully unexplored on this forum. Dropping out after 1L surely makes sense for a lot of people.
.


+1

Law school and the law profession aren't for everyone. A lot of people are really miserable in this profession. I've talked about it with my boss from my summer internship, actually, and he thinks people he knew personally should've dropped out of the path when they weren't quite as trapped (kids, etc.).



Yeah, except having an actual professional degree instead of none usually works out better for people even if they end up going an alternative route (imo).


3 years of your youth and $200,000 to not practice law probably wasn't worth it for most alternative routes.

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Renne Walker
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby Renne Walker » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:22 am

ajaxconstructions wrote:Lol at you thinking that 15% being proper fucked at Penn is a conservative estimate.

If 15% is laughable, what is realistic? Just asking. . . :|

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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby ajaxconstructions » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:25 am

Renne Walker wrote:
ajaxconstructions wrote:Lol at you thinking that 15% being proper fucked at Penn is a conservative estimate.

If 15% is laughable, what is realistic? Just asking. . . :|


More like bottom 30%.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:26 am

acrossthelake wrote:
Lawquacious wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
danquayle wrote:I agree with Rayiner. Really not getting all the hate that people are flinging at this guy for voicing an experience and decision that is woefully unexplored on this forum. Dropping out after 1L surely makes sense for a lot of people.
.


+1

Law school and the law profession aren't for everyone. A lot of people are really miserable in this profession. I've talked about it with my boss from my summer internship, actually, and he thinks people he knew personally should've dropped out of the path when they weren't quite as trapped (kids, etc.).



Yeah, except having an actual professional degree instead of none usually works out better for people even if they end up going an alternative route (imo).


3 years of your youth and $200,000 to not practice law probably wasn't worth it for most alternative routes.


Yeah, it may be... depending on what your alternatives are. And vast majority of T14 kids can actually practice law if they have even an ounce of resourcefulness and determination imo. Even if they don't get the cush job that everyone signs up for... $60k and not even a chance of professional career v. $150k or so with a professional (T14) degree--I would choose the later, and I think most ppl would if it wasn't for the panic that gets promoted on this site (yes the legal market effing blows though).

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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby sunynp » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:32 am

ajaxconstructions wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:
ajaxconstructions wrote:Lol at you thinking that 15% being proper fucked at Penn is a conservative estimate.

If 15% is laughable, what is realistic? Just asking. . . :|


More like bottom 30%.


Here is a chart posted today that is very helpful - not the jobs for firms are not biglaw - but firms of 50-501 and the red is federal clerkships

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=181415&start=225#p5607129

But that whole thread has great data by rayiner and so does his UN-employment thread - but I can never find that link. I wish they were stickied.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:34 am

Lawquacious wrote:
Yeah, it may be... depending on what your alternatives are. And vast majority of T14 kids can actually practice law if they have even an ounce of resourcefulness and determination imo. Even if they don't get the cush job that everyone signs up for... $60k and not even a chance of professional career v. $150k or so with a professional (T14) degree--I would choose the later, and I think most ppl would if it wasn't for the panic that gets promoted on this site (yes the legal market effing blows though).


I don't see the value in it being a "profession". Who cares? Being an engineer isn't a "profession", but I'd rather be a computer programmer making $80K than be in a "profession" making $60K in a job I didn't enjoy. The OP wasn't in law school because he wanted to be a lawyer, he was in it for the $160K job, and he knew he wasn't going to get the $160K job. Seems reasonable to drop out, then. TLS is actually a lot calmer than its peers (autoadmit, jdunderground, etc.) and downright optimistic in comparison.

T14dropout
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby T14dropout » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:35 am

espressocream wrote:Thanks for being honest.

I guess my question would be: You've been on TLS, you've seen all the warnings about "don't go to law school to make money", so even after all that - why'd you still go?


Because I was a moron.

No other explanation, really.

T14dropout
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby T14dropout » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:37 am

Sauer Grapes wrote:
Lawquacious wrote:How does it feel to be totally fucked as opposed to partially fucked?

This is a perfect example of the douchiness that OP was talking about.

The obvious answer to your question, probably a lot better than if he had stayed in an ended up in the same position with more debt.


Yeah, I don't really get it

No good employment prospects + 50k in debt vs no good employment prospects + 150k in debt?

Seems like I took the partially fucked route.

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Renne Walker
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby Renne Walker » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:41 am

ajaxconstructions wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:
ajaxconstructions wrote:Lol at you thinking that 15% being proper fucked at Penn is a conservative estimate.

If 15% is laughable, what is realistic? Just asking. . . :|


More like bottom 30%.

I was going by Rayiner’s posted numbers. While 15% may be low (or not) it is hard to believe that 30% is accurate. If P is 30% then one could suppose that N is close to 25%. I just don’t see it being that bad. If it is, might as well grabs the keys and lock the doors to about 100 law schools. The OP will have a lot of company on his/her drive out the gates of LS.

ajaxconstructions
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby ajaxconstructions » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:44 am

Renne Walker wrote:
ajaxconstructions wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:
ajaxconstructions wrote:Lol at you thinking that 15% being proper fucked at Penn is a conservative estimate.

If 15% is laughable, what is realistic? Just asking. . . :|


More like bottom 30%.

I was going by Rayiner’s posted numbers. While 15% may be low (or not) it is hard to believe that 30% is accurate. If P is 30% then one could suppose that N is close to 25%. I just don’t see it being that bad. If it is, might as well grabs the keys and shut the doors to about 100 law schools. The OP will have a lot of company on his/her drive out the gates of LS.


You realize even according to Raynier's estimates, it doesn't even add up to 70% employment for those firms + federal clerkships. Learn to read a graph, it tops out at 80%, not 100%.

And don't talk about LOLPI.

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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:48 am

Lawquacious is on FIRE tonight!

--ImageRemoved--

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chup
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby chup » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:07 am

Lawquacious wrote:Yeah, it may be... depending on what your alternatives are. And vast majority of T14 kids can actually practice law if they have even an ounce of resourcefulness and determination imo. Even if they don't get the cush job that everyone signs up for... $60k and not even a chance of professional career v. $150k or so with a professional (T14) degree--I would choose the later, and I think most ppl would if it wasn't for the panic that gets promoted on this site (yes the legal market effing blows though).

Your argument is very persuasive if you ignore the fact that you completely assume away the problem -- i.e., the inability to get a job and the massive debt incurred trying to do so.

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Icculus
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby Icculus » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:49 am

OP,when I went into 1L I knew I was going to drop out if I was below median, and I think your experience is good for 0Ls to read. Congratulations on making such a tough decision. Even though I had planned on it, I don't know if I could have pulled the trigger. Good luck.

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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby DBishops » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:55 am

T14dropout wrote:
fatduck wrote:interestingly, i'm pretty much the opposite of a stickler for online privacy, and i also have no idea why. i think i'm probably just a closet attention whore. if the inverse is true for you, that's probably a good thing.


Haha, well met. This whole thread could probably be seen as attention whoring, but I felt like doing it, so... YOLO?

also brb dinner, will continue to answer questions as long as this thread stays alive


Dinner at 6:44. I bet OP is at Berkeley.

T14dropout
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Re: Dropped out of a T14 law school, ask me anything

Postby T14dropout » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:59 am

DBishops wrote:
T14dropout wrote:
fatduck wrote:interestingly, i'm pretty much the opposite of a stickler for online privacy, and i also have no idea why. i think i'm probably just a closet attention whore. if the inverse is true for you, that's probably a good thing.


Haha, well met. This whole thread could probably be seen as attention whoring, but I felt like doing it, so... YOLO?

also brb dinner, will continue to answer questions as long as this thread stays alive


Dinner at 6:44. I bet OP is at Berkeley.


Sneaky, sneaky!

Unfortunately, I got up at like 4 pm today so my meal times were all off.




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