1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

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Should I drop out of law school?

Yes, you should drop out immediately and forfeit the tuition for the summer.
18
22%
Yes, but you should wait until you finish the summer class.
7
9%
No, you should stick to it for at least another year.
57
70%
 
Total votes: 82

HWS08
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:32 am

Re: 1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

Postby HWS08 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:26 pm

Not helpful, but it seems like neither is an obvious better choice. Can you take a leave of abscence to see if the legal job mkt picks up and abandon ship if it doesn't?

eveningLS15
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:36 am

Re: 1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

Postby eveningLS15 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:48 am

ionoiforgot wrote:I'm curious:

What are the opportunities you have in your current field; what's the salary situation looking like if you continued to work hard? You say you make $80k now, but what's the expected ceiling? If there's a fair bit of room to grow for that salary, then I honestly think there's no need to do law. If you can make $100k/year without doing law school, then the money you can save would make a nice nest egg for savings or investing. You noted that ~20% at your school get a big-firm job. If you're like ~40-45 percentile, you would have to really work your ass off to push yourself to even have a decent CHANCE to get a good paying legal job. Personally, I don't think money is the only factor that should be considered; quality of life/time is a big thing for me. If I can make ~80-100k without stress...why not? If you have that much time/effort, invest your money or just simply enjoy it.

It seems like the investment you're doing here isn't really worth the value you'll get back. Then again, that's my calculus.


I have not fully exploited my engineering credentials. I received my professional engineering license right before I got the acceptance letter to my LS. The next step is a move toward a senior management position. It will probably be in low 100k. Such position management position will top out around mid to high 100k, but not likely over 200k. I know some senior VP who stick with a company for most of their career will make anywhere from 300k to over 1 mil. However, you will be expected to move around the world which I'm not really willing to do. I can also move to a gov't position that will be around 100k and maybe top out around 150k but low stress with about only 35 to 37.5 work hours/ wk with full pension after 20 years. I can have some side business going if I work for the gov't like investing in rental apartments. Of course, there will be no salary ceiling if I decide start my own engineering firm and start stamping drawings. There is obvious professional liability involved and high insurance cost, but you will make as much as you are willing to put into it.

eveningLS15
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:36 am

Re: 1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

Postby eveningLS15 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:54 am

HWS08 wrote:Not helpful, but it seems like neither is an obvious better choice. Can you take a leave of abscence to see if the legal job mkt picks up and abandon ship if it doesn't?


That is my initial thought, but I don't think the economy is picking up anytime soon unless the Europeans get their shit together and U.S. gov't get the deficit under control. Also, the housing market is still weak. I'm in my late 20s and I'm very reluctant to delay getting JD even for another year. Getting a leave of absence will probably prevent another person from TTT transferring into a T1 school. I think the right thing to do is to just give my spot to another 2L who is not lucky enough to have better alternatives.

eveningLS15
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:36 am

Re: 1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

Postby eveningLS15 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:15 am

Thanks for the thoughtful responses so far. Right now, I'm almost 90% certain about dropping out. I thought things over and over again. There are so many unknown risks if I continue my LS.
1. I will be taking a CHANCE to pay another year (~32k) of tuition just to see if I can get into the top 25% .
2. I will be taking a BIG CHANCE to pay another 1.5 year (~48k) of tuition just to see if I can get offers from the OCI.
3. I will be taking a HUGE CHANCE after accepting a SA offer and quitting my my current F/T job just to let some BigLaw firm test ride me. If I don't get any offer, then I'm very fucked because I'm paying off mortgages on two properties. If I do get an offer, I will still not have a F/T job for a year until I pass the bar. Just in the 4th year of law school alone, my tuition and opportunity cost will be over $100k. I will wipe out all my savings in the 4th year.
4. After LS, if the firm goes bust like Dewey, then I'm back to square one. I will probably find a stable and good paying position in my engineering field and all my efforts through LS will be useless.

After laying everything out, I think dropping out is the more rational choice under the circumstances

Bgibbs
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:07 am

Re: 1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

Postby Bgibbs » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:19 am

eveningLS15 wrote:
ionoiforgot wrote:I'm curious:

What are the opportunities you have in your current field; what's the salary situation looking like if you continued to work hard? You say you make $80k now, but what's the expected ceiling? If there's a fair bit of room to grow for that salary, then I honestly think there's no need to do law. If you can make $100k/year without doing law school, then the money you can save would make a nice nest egg for savings or investing. You noted that ~20% at your school get a big-firm job. If you're like ~40-45 percentile, you would have to really work your ass off to push yourself to even have a decent CHANCE to get a good paying legal job. Personally, I don't think money is the only factor that should be considered; quality of life/time is a big thing for me. If I can make ~80-100k without stress...why not? If you have that much time/effort, invest your money or just simply enjoy it.

It seems like the investment you're doing here isn't really worth the value you'll get back. Then again, that's my calculus.


I have not fully exploited my engineering credentials. I received my professional engineering license right before I got the acceptance letter to my LS. The next step is a move toward a senior management position. It will probably be in low 100k. Such position management position will top out around mid to high 100k, but not likely over 200k. I know some senior VP who stick with a company for most of their career will make anywhere from 300k to over 1 mil. However, you will be expected to move around the world which I'm not really willing to do. I can also move to a gov't position that will be around 100k and maybe top out around 150k but low stress with about only 35 to 37.5 work hours/ wk with full pension after 20 years. I can have some side business going if I work for the gov't like investing in rental apartments. Of course, there will be no salary ceiling if I decide start my own engineering firm and start stamping drawings. There is obvious professional liability involved and high insurance cost, but you will make as much as you are willing to put into it.



You have a job with pay and advancement opportunities most law school graduates would kill for. It's even debatable if biglaw would be an upgrade considering quality of life and hours worked. I'm honestly surprised you went to law school in the first place, and I think you should drop out.

eveningLS15
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:36 am

Re: 1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

Postby eveningLS15 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:26 am

Bgibbs wrote:You have a job with pay and advancement opportunities most law school graduates would kill for. It's even debatable if biglaw would be an upgrade considering quality of life and hours worked. I'm honestly surprised you went to law school in the first place, and I think you should drop out.


I was interested in law and I got an high LSAT after about 40 days of prep. I could have gone to a T-14 school if I gave up my job. But, I was in the middle of buying a house and did not want to risk over $500k of tuition and opportunity cost. I knew the legal field was risky and the winner takes all when it comes to jobs. I made the calculated choice of only going P/T and see how things will pan out.

User avatar
rickgrimes69
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 am

Re: 1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:46 am

Bgibbs wrote:
eveningLS15 wrote:
ionoiforgot wrote:I'm curious:

What are the opportunities you have in your current field; what's the salary situation looking like if you continued to work hard? You say you make $80k now, but what's the expected ceiling? If there's a fair bit of room to grow for that salary, then I honestly think there's no need to do law. If you can make $100k/year without doing law school, then the money you can save would make a nice nest egg for savings or investing. You noted that ~20% at your school get a big-firm job. If you're like ~40-45 percentile, you would have to really work your ass off to push yourself to even have a decent CHANCE to get a good paying legal job. Personally, I don't think money is the only factor that should be considered; quality of life/time is a big thing for me. If I can make ~80-100k without stress...why not? If you have that much time/effort, invest your money or just simply enjoy it.

It seems like the investment you're doing here isn't really worth the value you'll get back. Then again, that's my calculus.


I have not fully exploited my engineering credentials. I received my professional engineering license right before I got the acceptance letter to my LS. The next step is a move toward a senior management position. It will probably be in low 100k. Such position management position will top out around mid to high 100k, but not likely over 200k. I know some senior VP who stick with a company for most of their career will make anywhere from 300k to over 1 mil. However, you will be expected to move around the world which I'm not really willing to do. I can also move to a gov't position that will be around 100k and maybe top out around 150k but low stress with about only 35 to 37.5 work hours/ wk with full pension after 20 years. I can have some side business going if I work for the gov't like investing in rental apartments. Of course, there will be no salary ceiling if I decide start my own engineering firm and start stamping drawings. There is obvious professional liability involved and high insurance cost, but you will make as much as you are willing to put into it.



You have a job with pay and advancement opportunities most law school graduates would kill for. It's even debatable if biglaw would be an upgrade considering quality of life and hours worked. I'm honestly surprised you went to law school in the first place, and I think you should drop out.

ionoiforgot
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:24 am

Re: 1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

Postby ionoiforgot » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:39 am

eveningLS15 wrote:
ionoiforgot wrote:I'm curious:

What are the opportunities you have in your current field; what's the salary situation looking like if you continued to work hard? You say you make $80k now, but what's the expected ceiling? If there's a fair bit of room to grow for that salary, then I honestly think there's no need to do law. If you can make $100k/year without doing law school, then the money you can save would make a nice nest egg for savings or investing. You noted that ~20% at your school get a big-firm job. If you're like ~40-45 percentile, you would have to really work your ass off to push yourself to even have a decent CHANCE to get a good paying legal job. Personally, I don't think money is the only factor that should be considered; quality of life/time is a big thing for me. If I can make ~80-100k without stress...why not? If you have that much time/effort, invest your money or just simply enjoy it.

It seems like the investment you're doing here isn't really worth the value you'll get back. Then again, that's my calculus.


I have not fully exploited my engineering credentials. I received my professional engineering license right before I got the acceptance letter to my LS. The next step is a move toward a senior management position. It will probably be in low 100k. Such position management position will top out around mid to high 100k, but not likely over 200k. I know some senior VP who stick with a company for most of their career will make anywhere from 300k to over 1 mil. However, you will be expected to move around the world which I'm not really willing to do. I can also move to a gov't position that will be around 100k and maybe top out around 150k but low stress with about only 35 to 37.5 work hours/ wk with full pension after 20 years. I can have some side business going if I work for the gov't like investing in rental apartments. Of course, there will be no salary ceiling if I decide start my own engineering firm and start stamping drawings. There is obvious professional liability involved and high insurance cost, but you will make as much as you are willing to put into it.


Dude, you're set. Why are we having this discussion? You must either REALLY want a "challenge" in life, or you must really find law school amazing. There is no literally no financial excuse to stay in law school. You're basically losing money (and a social life) no matter how you look at this. If you decide to stay in law school (which is your right to do so), there's no monetary reason behind it.

Go enjoy your life and stop trying to make it harder (or more "challenging") than it has to be.

eveningLS15
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:36 am

Re: 1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

Postby eveningLS15 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:04 pm

ionoiforgot wrote:
Dude, you're set. Why are we having this discussion? You must either REALLY want a "challenge" in life, or you must really find law school amazing. There is no literally no financial excuse to stay in law school. You're basically losing money (and a social life) no matter how you look at this. If you decide to stay in law school (which is your right to do so), there's no monetary reason behind it.

Go enjoy your life and stop trying to make it harder (or more "challenging") than it has to be.


Yes, I thought I was "challenging" myself when I was a 0L. It doesn't feel like a "challenge" anymore. The "challenge" is becoming a bad prospective investment.

kryptix
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:40 pm

Re: 1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

Postby kryptix » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:29 am

eveningLS15 wrote:
ionoiforgot wrote:
Dude, you're set. Why are we having this discussion? You must either REALLY want a "challenge" in life, or you must really find law school amazing. There is no literally no financial excuse to stay in law school. You're basically losing money (and a social life) no matter how you look at this. If you decide to stay in law school (which is your right to do so), there's no monetary reason behind it.

Go enjoy your life and stop trying to make it harder (or more "challenging") than it has to be.


Yes, I thought I was "challenging" myself when I was a 0L. It doesn't feel like a "challenge" anymore. The "challenge" is becoming a bad prospective investment.


I will say its worth it to stick around, I was in your situation after 1L but ended up getting grades up to 1/3 and getting an offer for 3L summer from a biglaw firm. I was also looking at the same types of choices as you, well paying job, could have gone T14 etc, but chose Fordham for the same reasons and I don't think its a bad deal, then again getting motivation to study after having an offer is tough.

I'm not sure if you stuck it out but if I were you and I could afford it I would see how 2L year turns out. I personally was lucky enough that I can afford to pay tuition out of pocket with my job so the only thing I lost was investment opportunities. That said, if you like what your doing now, you can always decide to give law another try within the next 8? years.

User avatar
Kronk
Posts: 27945
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:18 pm

Re: 1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

Postby Kronk » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:32 am

Good five-month-later-and-now-totally-irrelevant advice!

kryptix
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:40 pm

Re: 1L GPA is above median but below 33% in a T-30. Drop out?

Postby kryptix » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:15 pm

Kronk wrote:Good five-month-later-and-now-totally-irrelevant advice!


Yeah sorry I missed this thread earlier :)




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