Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

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brokelawstudent
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Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby brokelawstudent » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:52 pm

1st Semester grades were a 3.09 (median = 3.3)...2nd Semester grades were a 3.52 (median = 3.3)...cumulative is right at median...

I go to a midwest T30...how can I spin this in a way to successfully navigate getting a 2L summer job...do employers (firms/government agencies) give people with improvement a little leeway...extra benefit of the doubt? Thanks for any response!!

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5ky
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby 5ky » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:06 am

brokelawstudent wrote:1st Semester grades were a 3.09 (median = 3.3)...2nd Semester grades were a 3.52 (median = 3.3)...cumulative is right at median...

I go to a midwest T30...how can I spin this in a way to successfully navigate getting a 2L summer job...do employers (firms/government agencies) give people with improvement a little leeway...extra benefit of the doubt? Thanks for any response!!


I would rather go up than down, but ultimately essentially meaningless.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:19 am

5ky wrote:
brokelawstudent wrote:1st Semester grades were a 3.09 (median = 3.3)...2nd Semester grades were a 3.52 (median = 3.3)...cumulative is right at median...

I go to a midwest T30...how can I spin this in a way to successfully navigate getting a 2L summer job...do employers (firms/government agencies) give people with improvement a little leeway...extra benefit of the doubt? Thanks for any response!!


I would rather go up than down, but ultimately essentially meaningless.


Hmm, yeah, better up than down, but not so much a boost. Sure, you can mention your improvement, but you have one GPA line on your resume, and that is all that matters generally.

delusional
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby delusional » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:33 am

brokelawstudent wrote:1st Semester grades were a 3.09 (median = 3.3)...2nd Semester grades were a 3.52 (median = 3.3)...cumulative is right at median...

I go to a midwest T30...how can I spin this in a way to successfully navigate getting a 2L summer job...do employers (firms/government agencies) give people with improvement a little leeway...extra benefit of the doubt? Thanks for any response!!
Seems pretty simple to me. People who do well first semester got lucky. People who do well second semester are good.

ajaxconstructions
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby ajaxconstructions » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:07 am

delusional wrote:
brokelawstudent wrote:1st Semester grades were a 3.09 (median = 3.3)...2nd Semester grades were a 3.52 (median = 3.3)...cumulative is right at median...

I go to a midwest T30...how can I spin this in a way to successfully navigate getting a 2L summer job...do employers (firms/government agencies) give people with improvement a little leeway...extra benefit of the doubt? Thanks for any response!!
Seems pretty simple to me. People who do well first semester got lucky. People who do well second semester are good.


Your name fits you perfectly.

delusional
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby delusional » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:34 am

ajaxconstructions wrote:
delusional wrote:
brokelawstudent wrote:1st Semester grades were a 3.09 (median = 3.3)...2nd Semester grades were a 3.52 (median = 3.3)...cumulative is right at median...

I go to a midwest T30...how can I spin this in a way to successfully navigate getting a 2L summer job...do employers (firms/government agencies) give people with improvement a little leeway...extra benefit of the doubt? Thanks for any response!!
Seems pretty simple to me. People who do well first semester got lucky. People who do well second semester are good.


Your name fits you perfectly.
Not saying it's true, I'm saying that would be a reasonable basis for spin.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:42 am

delusional wrote:
ajaxconstructions wrote:
delusional wrote:
brokelawstudent wrote:1st Semester grades were a 3.09 (median = 3.3)...2nd Semester grades were a 3.52 (median = 3.3)...cumulative is right at median...

I go to a midwest T30...how can I spin this in a way to successfully navigate getting a 2L summer job...do employers (firms/government agencies) give people with improvement a little leeway...extra benefit of the doubt? Thanks for any response!!
Seems pretty simple to me. People who do well first semester got lucky. People who do well second semester are good.


Your name fits you perfectly.
Not saying it's true, I'm saying that would be a reasonable basis for spin.


And a way to insult anyone who actually did well their first semester, which is likely your interviewer. :roll:

delusional
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby delusional » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:06 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:
delusional wrote:
delusional wrote:
brokelawstudent wrote:1st Semester grades were a 3.09 (median = 3.3)...2nd Semester grades were a 3.52 (median = 3.3)...cumulative is right at median...

I go to a midwest T30...how can I spin this in a way to successfully navigate getting a 2L summer job...do employers (firms/government agencies) give people with improvement a little leeway...extra benefit of the doubt? Thanks for any response!!
Seems pretty simple to me. People who do well first semester got lucky. People who do well second semester are good.


]Not saying it's true, I'm saying that would be a reasonable basis for spin.


And a way to insult anyone who actually did well their first semester, which is likely your interviewer. :roll:
You don't have to say "everyone who did well first semester were a-holes." You could say something like, "It took a while for me to 'get it'. Although I did okay on some tests first semester, I really didn't know what made one exam better than another. Once things started to click second semester, I was able to maximize my ability."

ajaxconstructions
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby ajaxconstructions » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:15 pm

So pretty much telling your interviewer you are a slow learner? Good job.

delusional
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby delusional » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:19 pm

ajaxconstructions wrote:So pretty much telling your interviewer you are a slow learner? Good job.
If that's what you get out of it, then yes. Or you could be pretty much telling the interviewer, once I got my feet under me, I was at the top of the class.

ajaxconstructions
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby ajaxconstructions » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:22 pm

delusional wrote:
ajaxconstructions wrote:So pretty much telling your interviewer you are a slow learner? Good job.
If that's what you get out of it, then yes. Or you could be pretty much telling the interviewer, once I got my feet under me, I was at the top of the class.


How about letting the interviewer come to his own conclusion instead of spewing unnecessary bullshit in his face?

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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby delusional » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:24 pm

ajaxconstructions wrote:How about letting the interviewer come to his own conclusion instead of spewing unnecessary bullshit in his face?
That would be an excellent response, to questions other than the one this thread is about.

brokelawstudent wrote:1st Semester grades were a 3.09 (median = 3.3)...2nd Semester grades were a 3.52 (median = 3.3)...cumulative is right at median...

I go to a midwest T30...how can I spin this in a way to successfully navigate getting a 2L summer job...do employers (firms/government agencies) give people with improvement a little leeway...extra benefit of the doubt? Thanks for any response!!

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PennBull
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby PennBull » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:34 pm

delusional wrote:
ajaxconstructions wrote:How about letting the interviewer come to his own conclusion instead of spewing unnecessary bullshit in his face?
That would be an excellent response, to questions other than the one this thread is about.

brokelawstudent wrote:1st Semester grades were a 3.09 (median = 3.3)...2nd Semester grades were a 3.52 (median = 3.3)...cumulative is right at median...

I go to a midwest T30...how can I spin this in a way to successfully navigate getting a 2L summer job...do employers (firms/government agencies) give people with improvement a little leeway...extra benefit of the doubt? Thanks for any response!!


The point is, the answer to OP's question is to not spin it at all. Your grades are your grades over the course of a year. Unless they are shockingly polar opposites, you just shut up unless you're asked about them. And then, they know just as well as you do that law school grades can be finicky.

So stop telling OP to spin anything. TCR is there is no "benefit of the doubt" with some minor grade improvement. Just show up and get a 2L job by being a great overall candidate.

rad lulz
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:18 pm

I went up a ton and got firm offers at both the places where people asked me "what was your biggest challenge in lawl school" and I said "my grades." My cumulative was very competitive already though.

bartleby
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby bartleby » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:30 pm

what if the difference was like...2.9 (median 3.0) and ~3.5

is that polar enough

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PennBull
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby PennBull » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:35 pm

bartleby wrote:what if the difference was like...2.9 (median 3.0) and ~3.5

is that polar enough


No. I'm thinking one semester horribly below median (like 3 or 4 grades at the very bottom of the curve) and one semester superbly above it (4.0 or damn close to it). That shit just doesn't make sense. Doing generally shitty and then generally well doesn't really matter. Then you're just like any other median student. Yay.

bartleby
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby bartleby » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:36 pm

i had one terrible grade. like one of the lowest grades in the class. in one class first semester. it was my first exam. i'm making excuses already.

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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby PennBull » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:40 pm

bartleby wrote:i had one terrible grade. like one of the lowest grades in the class. in one class first semester. it was my first exam. i'm making excuses already.


One shitty grade ain't no thang. Chalk it up as a fluke. Be proud for finishing overall above median. Go have a beer.

bartleby
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby bartleby » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:41 pm

PennBull wrote:
bartleby wrote:i had one terrible grade. like one of the lowest grades in the class. in one class first semester. it was my first exam. i'm making excuses already.


One shitty grade ain't no thang. Chalk it up as a fluke. Be proud for finishing overall above median. Go have a beer.


but i don't drink

uci2013
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby uci2013 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:37 am

I would consider what you did to improve your grades. If your grades went up because you changed your study habits somehow, and you can articulate what you did well, you can potentially use it in a cover letter or interview to sell yourself. Did you go seek a lot of feedback from professors to learn from your mistakes? Did you need to improve you exam taking skills? If so how did you improve them? Sometimes the grade distributions are not really explainable and if you did things the same I would just let the grades speak for themselves. But if you have a story you can spin, use it.

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PennBull
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby PennBull » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:38 am

uci2013 wrote:I would consider what you did to improve your grades. If your grades went up because you changed your study habits somehow, and you can articulate what you did well, you can potentially use it in a cover letter or interview to sell yourself. Did you go seek a lot of feedback from professors to learn from your mistakes? Did you need to improve you exam taking skills? If so how did you improve them? Sometimes the grade distributions are not really explainable and if you did things the same I would just let the grades speak for themselves. But if you have a story you can spin, use it.


There are zero advantages to explaining a grade jump unsolicited. See what we all wrote above.

It does not matter when you received your grades. Your grades your 1L year are viewed at in their entirety over the course of a year--not split up into two semesters.

r6_philly
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby r6_philly » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:35 pm

ajaxconstructions wrote:So pretty much telling your interviewer you are a slow learner? Good job.


A learner is better than a lucky guy. Considering that most people won't get to handle important tasks until 5+ years into a legal career, I would characterize law firm learning as slower than slower.

r6_philly
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby r6_philly » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:37 pm

PennBull wrote:
uci2013 wrote:I would consider what you did to improve your grades. If your grades went up because you changed your study habits somehow, and you can articulate what you did well, you can potentially use it in a cover letter or interview to sell yourself. Did you go seek a lot of feedback from professors to learn from your mistakes? Did you need to improve you exam taking skills? If so how did you improve them? Sometimes the grade distributions are not really explainable and if you did things the same I would just let the grades speak for themselves. But if you have a story you can spin, use it.


There are zero advantages to explaining a grade jump unsolicited. See what we all wrote above.

It does not matter when you received your grades. Your grades your 1L year are viewed at in their entirety over the course of a year--not split up into two semesters.


I wholeheartedly disagree. It does help to mention a grade jump. The real world likes people who can make improvements based on mistakes. Dude, my whole life is based on that premise, you are not going to tell me there are zero advantages :wink:

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kalvano
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby kalvano » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:41 pm

There is zero advantage at an OCI interview to bringing up grades unsolicited. You have a very limited window of time to make a good impression, and bring up what could be a negative is not a good idea. If you got the screener, your grades are at least acceptable to the firm. Keep your mouth shut unless they ask about them.

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PennBull
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Re: Big rise between 1st + 2nd Semester Grades

Postby PennBull » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:11 am

r6_philly wrote:
PennBull wrote:
uci2013 wrote:I would consider what you did to improve your grades. If your grades went up because you changed your study habits somehow, and you can articulate what you did well, you can potentially use it in a cover letter or interview to sell yourself. Did you go seek a lot of feedback from professors to learn from your mistakes? Did you need to improve you exam taking skills? If so how did you improve them? Sometimes the grade distributions are not really explainable and if you did things the same I would just let the grades speak for themselves. But if you have a story you can spin, use it.


There are zero advantages to explaining a grade jump unsolicited. See what we all wrote above.

It does not matter when you received your grades. Your grades your 1L year are viewed at in their entirety over the course of a year--not split up into two semesters.


I wholeheartedly disagree. It does help to mention a grade jump. The real world likes people who can make improvements based on mistakes. Dude, my whole life is based on that premise, you are not going to tell me there are zero advantages :wink:


My main attack is bringing it up unsolicited. If you're asked about it, they want to hear a good answer for the improvement, which I'm sure there are several decent answers for. But if the employer doesn't care enough to ask, they're probably just looking at your grades as a whole for the year/don't care to hear any reason you have for the improvement. Bringing it up unprovoked I think is bad form.




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