1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby ilovesf » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:45 pm

tlsfan545 wrote:Finished top 15.4% at a T30 school...I'm incredibly pumped, I wasn't expecting to do quite this well. But does anyone know how strict firms are about their cutoffs typically? I've noticed a few OCIs that are already posted have a top 15% cutoff....they won't be so strict to exclude me, will they?

I hope not. I'm 2% lower than some cut offs and I still want to bid.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby FeelTheHeat » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:53 pm

ilovesf wrote:
tlsfan545 wrote:Finished top 15.4% at a T30 school...I'm incredibly pumped, I wasn't expecting to do quite this well. But does anyone know how strict firms are about their cutoffs typically? I've noticed a few OCIs that are already posted have a top 15% cutoff....they won't be so strict to exclude me, will they?

I hope not. I'm 2% lower than some cut offs and I still want to bid.


The cutoffs are not firm at all. Apply to every job you are interested in.

tlsfan545
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby tlsfan545 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:55 pm

Ok thanks. That's what I figured but it's good to hear from someone else.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby JusticeHarlan » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:12 am

ilovesf wrote:
tlsfan545 wrote:Finished top 15.4% at a T30 school...I'm incredibly pumped, I wasn't expecting to do quite this well. But does anyone know how strict firms are about their cutoffs typically? I've noticed a few OCIs that are already posted have a top 15% cutoff....they won't be so strict to exclude me, will they?

I hope not. I'm 2% lower than some cut offs and I still want to bid.



thesealocust wrote:A wise and insightful person once wrote:

PSA - when a firm lists its GPA preference and requirements, you should do the following: Ignore them entirely and mother fucking ask career services.

Firms lie through their god damned teeth on those things, and I want to keep harping on it, because it is VERY IMPORTANT TO YOUR CAREER PROSPECTS. The firms are lying or naive or outsourcing their symplicity profiles to India or who knows what, but if you ask a 3 year old with a box of crayons to draw you the cut off for a firm you'll get a better answer than the firm's published cutoff on your OCI software.

Firms aren't consistently high, or consistently low - they're just consistently full of shit. A firm that says "top third required" might hire to median, it might hire from the top 3% without exception, and there's even a remote chance it will hire from the top third. But those pieces of data simply cannot be relied upon at all. Not even in a cursory way. Not for comparison's sake, not when nothing else will do. You need to completely disregard them, and beg/borrow/steal data from career services. Your (and that's the royal 'your' for everyone out there readingin paranoid law student land) career depends on it.

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ph14
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby ph14 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:02 am

tlsfan545 wrote:Finished top 15.4% at a T30 school...I'm incredibly pumped, I wasn't expecting to do quite this well. But does anyone know how strict firms are about their cutoffs typically? I've noticed a few OCIs that are already posted have a top 15% cutoff....they won't be so strict to exclude me, will they?


Round down ;).

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby ilovesf » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:26 am

Yeah I've seen that, I'll still apply. It's just difficult to gauge sometimes because I feel like that advice applies more to people at t14s or t20s or whatever and not to much lower ranked schools. I'll still try though.

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Pate
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby Pate » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:55 pm

ilovesf wrote:Yeah I've seen that, I'll still apply. It's just difficult to gauge sometimes because I feel like that advice applies more to people at t14s or t20s or whatever and not to much lower ranked schools. I'll still try though.

Why do you think that? I hope you are right. . .just curious if your feeling is "gut," anecdotal, or something else

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby ilovesf » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:01 pm

Pate wrote:
ilovesf wrote:Yeah I've seen that, I'll still apply. It's just difficult to gauge sometimes because I feel like that advice applies more to people at t14s or t20s or whatever and not to much lower ranked schools. I'll still try though.

Why do you think that? I hope you are right. . .just curious if your feeling is "gut," anecdotal, or something else

Just a feeling Because more people on here attend these schools, not based on anything else.

r6_philly
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby r6_philly » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:17 pm

ilovesf wrote:Yeah I've seen that, I'll still apply. It's just difficult to gauge sometimes because I feel like that advice applies more to people at t14s or t20s or whatever and not to much lower ranked schools. I'll still try though.


The cut offs probably applies to the lowest ranked school they conduct on campus interview at. There is just no way a firm is going to only interview top 30% students both at Temple AND at Penn. Serves a floor function. So if your school is middle or up on the list of schools, don't go by them. You can use them to approximate comparative selectivity, unless your CS publish grade/rank info for firms from past OCI sessions (then use those if you have them).

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jessuf
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby jessuf » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:55 pm

This is anecdotal, but at my current TTT, there are only about five biglaw firms that attend OCI. These firms, of course, also attend OCI at my transfer school (GULC). According to GULC, it will say B+ average, but at my TTT school, it will say top 5% and LR, which is much higher than a B+ average.

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Pate
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby Pate » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:05 pm

I have a 1L T6 friend who accepted a very nice SA position at a NY firm (annual billing tops $1B). She came aboard before her grades were known (her grades are in and she is probably top third, or not far from it). She feels confident about her SA turning into a fulltime offer, therefore, she is not applying for OCI interviews. I found that a bit disconcerting, but she believes there is a potential downside to applying somewhere else. In a manner of speaking, she might be right since the law community can be rather connected. Not sure what I would do since “what ifs” clearly exist.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:08 pm

Pate wrote:I have a 1L T6 friend who accepted a very nice SA position at a NY firm (annual billing tops $1B). She came aboard before her grades were known (her grades are in and she is probably top third, or not far from it). She feels confident about her SA turning into a fulltime offer, therefore, she is not applying for OCI interviews. I found that a bit disconcerting, but she believes there is a potential downside to applying somewhere else. In a manner of speaking, she might be right since the law community can be rather connected. Not sure what I would do since “what ifs” clearly exist.

lol @ the idea that a biglaw firm will get all territorial that a 1L SA is going through OCI.

attractive_NUisance
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby attractive_NUisance » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:10 pm

Well you probably shouldn't complain because this opens up more callback slots to the other 2Ls. However, your friend is taking a risk (although if she is no-offered she can probably find something else outside of OCI if she had the stats to get a 1L summer associate gig in the first place).

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Pate
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby Pate » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:49 pm

attractive_NUisance wrote: - - -if she is no-offered she can probably find something else outside of OCI if she had the stats to get a 1L summer associate gig in the first place.

At the time of her SA offer there were no stats available (or even WE to speak of). Actually, I misstated her grades, meant to say middle third, median-ish. If not for the SA she would likely be pondering the significance of middle third at a T14 or better ― something I do all the time.

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dabomb75
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby dabomb75 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:17 pm

Pate wrote:
attractive_NUisance wrote: - - -if she is no-offered she can probably find something else outside of OCI if she had the stats to get a 1L summer associate gig in the first place.

At the time of her SA offer there were no stats available (or even WE to speak of). Actually, I misstated her grades, meant to say middle third, median-ish. If not for the SA she would likely be pondering the significance of middle third at a T14 or better ― something I do all the time.


yea.....your friend's kinda dumb. You should probably try and convince her to do OCI

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Pate
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby Pate » Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:58 am

Given T-6er, SA at a mega-firm (probably = $14K a month) in a location where she already has a place, not to mention perks, the dumb thing is a hard sell.

Most of us 1Ls have some level of summer placement where the people we serve expect us to participate in OCI (even the DA office asked me “why here,” you have options). Unlikely that BL sees it the same way.

If you were doing well as a BigLaw SA, would you go forward with OCI? There must be a fair number of 1L TLSers facing the same question on how to handle OCI. Back away from that whole OCI mess and hope your SA turns into a soft landing, or. . . .

Is there a consensus?

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birdlaw117
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby birdlaw117 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:07 am

Pate wrote:Given T-6er, SA at a mega-firm (probably = $14K a month) in a location where she already has a place, not to mention perks, the dumb thing is a hard sell.

Most of us 1Ls have some level of summer placement where the people we serve expect us to participate in OCI (even the DA office asked me “why here,” you have options). Unlikely that BL sees it the same way.

If you were doing well as a BigLaw SA, would you go forward with OCI? There must be a fair number of 1L TLSers facing the same question on how to handle OCI. Back away from that whole OCI mess and hope your SA turns into a soft landing, or. . . .

Is there a consensus?

Considering you would have to decide not to bid in July, which would be months before you would get an offer for the next summer, yeah it's dumb to not do OCI because you may just miss out.

And what do you gain from not doing OCI? Not spending a few days doing short interviews? You're willing to risk no job for not doing that? Seems ridiculous.

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Pate
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby Pate » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:17 am

I was hoping to hear from a few people who actually have a BL SA position. But thanks once again FYO.

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bk1
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby bk1 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:20 am

I've talked to several people who were 1L SAs. I don't think it's as crazy as people are making it out to be. If you really like the firm, the firm has historically 100% or close to it offer rate, the firm pretty much always extends offers for 1L SAs to come back for 2L, and there isn't another firm you'd pick over it then why bother? If all those criteria are met then those people seem like they have little to gain from doing OCI since it's not like they'd pick another firm anyways. If it were me I would still do OCI since I would at least want to see what another firm was like, but I understand why they don't. I mean I agree that at the fringes it can matter (if a firm say invites 1Ls back 99% of the time, you might as well do OCI just in case you're in the 1%), but that's such a rare case that it's not that ridic for them not to do OCI.

r6_philly
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby r6_philly » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:25 am

Pate wrote:I was hoping to hear from a few people who actually have a BL SA position. But thanks once again FYO.


I love my firm, but I will still bid on OCI. There is no reason to no have a backup plan.

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Pate
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby Pate » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:44 am

bk1 wrote:I've talked to several people who were 1L SAs. I don't think it's as crazy as people are making it out to be. If you really like the firm, the firm has historically 100% or close to it offer rate, the firm pretty much always extends offers for 1L SAs to come back for 2L, and there isn't another firm you'd pick over it then why bother? If all those criteria are met then those people seem like they have little to gain from doing OCI since it's not like they'd pick another firm anyways. If it were me I would still do OCI since I would at least want to see what another firm was like, but I understand why they don't. I mean I agree that at the fringes it can matter (if a firm say invites 1Ls back 99% of the time, you might as well do OCI just in case you're in the 1%), but that's such a rare case that it's not that ridic for them not to do OCI.


Thanks for the input. My friend loves her SA. With than in mind, she has two underlying concerns: the overall vibe of looking elsewhere (it is possible, as someone noted above, the firm would likely not care), then there is the “do I tell anyone, or not?” She was advised that a competitiveness exists between some firms (don’t know to say bad blood, but probably); the second are her median grades (she was hired before grades were released). I cannot fathom that median grades from CCNP, are a problem.

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birdlaw117
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby birdlaw117 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:00 am

Pate wrote:
bk1 wrote:I've talked to several people who were 1L SAs. I don't think it's as crazy as people are making it out to be. If you really like the firm, the firm has historically 100% or close to it offer rate, the firm pretty much always extends offers for 1L SAs to come back for 2L, and there isn't another firm you'd pick over it then why bother? If all those criteria are met then those people seem like they have little to gain from doing OCI since it's not like they'd pick another firm anyways. If it were me I would still do OCI since I would at least want to see what another firm was like, but I understand why they don't. I mean I agree that at the fringes it can matter (if a firm say invites 1Ls back 99% of the time, you might as well do OCI just in case you're in the 1%), but that's such a rare case that it's not that ridic for them not to do OCI.


Thanks for the input. My friend loves her SA. With than in mind, she has two underlying concerns: the overall vibe of looking elsewhere (it is possible, as someone noted above, the firm would likely not care), then there is the “do I tell anyone, or not?” She was advised that a competitiveness exists between some firms (don’t know to say bad blood, but probably); the second are her median grades (she was hired before grades were released). I cannot fathom that median grades from CCNP, are a problem.

I definitely know someone that chose not to do OCI because he loved the firm he summered with 1st year. I just would never bail on OCI until I knew I was going to get an offer, because it doesn't seem like you really gain anything by not doing OCI.

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fatduck
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby fatduck » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:19 am

r6_philly wrote:
Pate wrote:I was hoping to hear from a few people who actually have a BL SA position. But thanks once again FYO.


I love my firm, but I will still bid on OCI. There is no reason to no have a backup plan.

same here. not doing OCI is stupid. negligible gain, potentially catastrophic loss.

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dabomb75
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby dabomb75 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:36 pm

Pate wrote:I was hoping to hear from a few people who actually have a BL SA position. But thanks once again FYO.


I'm at a firm right now for the summer, and I am for sure bidding at OCI. They know I'm going to be bidding at OCI and there's no guarantee I get an offer to come back even though people have told me I'd basically have to commit a felony at the work place to not get an offer.

Downside of doing OCI: they're slightly sad that I might go somewhere else but they expected me to at least try OCI so they really won't be that sad

Upside of doing OCI: I like another firm better and choose it, or screw up royally during the summer to the point I don't get an offer from my 1L summer position but still get to try again 2L year at a different firm

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ph14
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Re: 1L Spring Grades Waiting Room

Postby ph14 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:02 pm

My firm encouraged me to participate in OCI. Is there a junior associate you can ask? I have a hard time believing any mega firm cares.




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