Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Tue May 08, 2012 6:23 am

I once knew someone who faked blindness for extra time on the LSAT. She even got a blind dog to act as her seeing eye dog. What a crook.



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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby JusticeHarlan » Tue May 08, 2012 6:53 am

descartesb4thehorse wrote:I once knew someone who faked blindness for extra time on the LSAT. She even got a blind dog to act as her seeing eye dog. What a crook.



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That person deserves to have the book thrown at her

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KMaine
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby KMaine » Tue May 08, 2012 6:57 am

Are we really doing this again? Get over it. I have never had extra time in my life, but never complained about it. It seems a little whiny.

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Extension_Cord
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby Extension_Cord » Tue May 08, 2012 9:23 am

eandy wrote:
Extension_Cord wrote:
eandy wrote:The difference in extra time for an exam and extra time for filing something with a court is that you are given exactly the amount of time it takes to the do the exam(for someone without a disability) in the exam period. For filing something with a court, you are given more time than it takes to actually create the document. Extra time is not needed.


If you have 30 days to file something with the court, you aren't sitting around for 30 days focusing on one thing. Attorneys manage hundreds of files at once. If it takes an attorney an extra hour to focus on each task that can cause problems.

Holy exaggeration, Batman! Most lawyers do NOT have hundreds of files or tasks to complete at any given moment. It also doesn't take most people with ADD an "extra hour to focus on each task."
At the end of the day you guys are resentful of someone who has a learning disability getting the accommodations that they need and legally are entitled to. Many people with learning disabilities "seem normal" or "don't seem like they need extra time" because people like you make statements to make them seem incompetent. They go through great pains to hide or downplay their disability.
As someone with legal experience in this field, let me tell you that people who in official testing (and not just for ADD, for other learning disabilities as well) score very poorly may sometimes seem "super normal" in everyday interactions. Don't be a jerk.


I worked as a paralegal before law school, the attorneys at the firms I worked at all had atleast 400 files, thats including the recent graduates. Most have 600. I know of a two that have done it for awhile that managed 1300. These files are active, meaning the majority have had complaints filed. Rarely wound a file get dismissed because of a missed deadline, if it did your in trouble because it costs thousands of dollars to restart if you can't manage to get the judge to reopen the case (yes they can do this).

Also to the other guy, the attorneys at my firm didn't get to reject additional cases, they get whats assigned. If they can't handle it, they would get stressed and quit. I used the 1 hour time because thats what the person I responded to said. I have no idea how much extra time people need.

This is not that type of field. Maybe you're all 1L's and haven't worked in a law firm yet, but this is how things are done. Why do you think so many attorneys work 70 hours a week?

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dresden doll
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby dresden doll » Tue May 08, 2012 9:55 am

truevines wrote:
sushirob39 wrote:Does this happen at your schools? What percent would you say? In my section of 60ish ppl, 12 are getting extra time this semester. Some of those ppl have mysteriously developed "ADD" in the past semester. Not to be insensitive to those who actually do suffer from learning disabilities, but what's the point in giving these ppl extra time? When you have to file a brief by a certain time, a court won't care whether you're ADD or not.


Kinda strange that you complained about this, but not about those people who have partner godfathers or godmothers at V5 firms, or who have trust funds and don't bother to come to law school.

Suck it up, bro. Nothing's fair.


THANK YOU.

09042014
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby 09042014 » Tue May 08, 2012 10:51 am

Time for a lulzy store. My Brother is quadrapeligic, so can't move his fingers (but can move wrists). So after he studied for the first part of the CPA exam, he had to get qualified to have accessibility features during his test. He just wanted a keyboard, instead of a mouse, but they didn't listen and ended up giving him a person to check the boxes for him.

So on test day, the lady kept FALLING ASLEEP during the test. He said he had to wake her up 20 times. HAhahahahaha.

Still passed with a 92 though.

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TTTLS
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby TTTLS » Tue May 08, 2012 12:56 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Time for a lulzy store. My Brother is quadrapeligic, so can't move his fingers (but can move wrists). So after he studied for the first part of the CPA exam, he had to get qualified to have accessibility features during his test. He just wanted a keyboard, instead of a mouse, but they didn't listen and ended up giving him a person to check the boxes for him.

So on test day, the lady kept FALLING ASLEEP during the test. He said he had to wake her up 20 times. HAhahahahaha.

Still passed with a 92 though.
Reminds me of when a quadriplegic at the school I was working at had whose assistant just did not know how to use a computer. Why do the disabled have to be paired with such incompetent helpers during testing?

sushirob39
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby sushirob39 » Thu May 10, 2012 1:27 am

Well I'm complaining cuz it seems like blatant cheating... I can understand if you got extra time on the LSAT and go into law school with a history of needing extra time, but to all of a sudden develop it during law school? Come on.

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dingbat
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby dingbat » Thu May 10, 2012 2:03 am

I have a legit "condition" that would allow me to get extra time and I have never requested it.
I actually had developed a reputation at my last school for finishing exams very quickly (depending on the subject and exam type, sometimes in 1/3rd the allotted time)

I'm a firm believer in not giving extra time for most subjects, because in the real world, you won't get extra time, or any other kind of hand-holding: either you perform to the required standards of your job, or you don't.
If you're unable to complete a task in X hours, there are a thousand other people who will.

Of course, there are subjects/fields to which this doesn't apply. In those cases, I think deadlines would be more appropriate than exams (e.g. English Lit majors)

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alicrimson
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby alicrimson » Thu May 10, 2012 2:18 am

I don't understand why TLS is abuzz with cheating witch hunts. Some people abuse the system, but likely more need the extra time or adderall. Its odd that there weren't this many threads on cheating and "cheating" last semester. Is this how it usually is? Or is this still left over hysteria from the epic Duke con law take home thread?

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dingbat
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby dingbat » Thu May 10, 2012 2:25 am

alicrimson wrote:I don't understand why TLS is abuzz with cheating witch hunts. Some people abuse the system, but likely more need the extra time or adderall. Its odd that there weren't this many threads on cheating and "cheating" last semester. Is this how it usually is? Or is this still left over hysteria from the epic Duke con law take home thread?

I don't even care about the cheating. I just think it's unfair in general - either a person is capable of performing a certain task in a set amount of time, or not.
For exam purposes, the question is how well can said person perform said task in the set amount of time.

As an employer, I would refuse to hire anyone who took extra time, because it is an indication that the person is incapable of performing as required (or that someone else would be able to perform the same task faster)

So not only does someone with extra time get an unfair testing advantage, but also screws up the curve, such that I seem relatively less good in comparison. I'd be really pissed if I was just below the interview cutoff for a firm when others got better grades than me due to an unfair advantage.

Again, I think it's an unfair advantage regardless. If you need extra time, it should be on a pass/fail system and at the very least not affect your class rank, if not lower it altogether

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eandy
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby eandy » Thu May 10, 2012 2:39 am

dingbat wrote:
alicrimson wrote:I don't understand why TLS is abuzz with cheating witch hunts. Some people abuse the system, but likely more need the extra time or adderall. Its odd that there weren't this many threads on cheating and "cheating" last semester. Is this how it usually is? Or is this still left over hysteria from the epic Duke con law take home thread?

I don't even care about the cheating. I just think it's unfair in general - either a person is capable of performing a certain task in a set amount of time, or not.
For exam purposes, the question is how well can said person perform said task in the set amount of time.

As an employer, I would refuse to hire anyone who took extra time, because it is an indication that the person is incapable of performing as required (or that someone else would be able to perform the same task faster)

So not only does someone with extra time get an unfair testing advantage, but also screws up the curve, such that I seem relatively less good in comparison. I'd be really pissed if I was just below the interview cutoff for a firm when others got better grades than me due to an unfair advantage.

Again, I think it's an unfair advantage regardless. If you need extra time, it should be on a pass/fail system and at the very least not affect your class rank, if not lower it altogether

Discrimination QFP

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dingbat
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby dingbat » Thu May 10, 2012 2:41 am

eandy wrote:
dingbat wrote:
alicrimson wrote:I don't understand why TLS is abuzz with cheating witch hunts. Some people abuse the system, but likely more need the extra time or adderall. Its odd that there weren't this many threads on cheating and "cheating" last semester. Is this how it usually is? Or is this still left over hysteria from the epic Duke con law take home thread?

I don't even care about the cheating. I just think it's unfair in general - either a person is capable of performing a certain task in a set amount of time, or not.
For exam purposes, the question is how well can said person perform said task in the set amount of time.

As an employer, I would refuse to hire anyone who took extra time, because it is an indication that the person is incapable of performing as required (or that someone else would be able to perform the same task faster)

So not only does someone with extra time get an unfair testing advantage, but also screws up the curve, such that I seem relatively less good in comparison. I'd be really pissed if I was just below the interview cutoff for a firm when others got better grades than me due to an unfair advantage.

Again, I think it's an unfair advantage regardless. If you need extra time, it should be on a pass/fail system and at the very least not affect your class rank, if not lower it altogether

Discrimination QFP

How is giving everyone the exact same opportunity discrimination?
(or, can it be discrimination against anyone without a learning disability to make them take the exam with less time than would be given to people with a learning disability?)

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arkansawyer
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby arkansawyer » Thu May 10, 2012 3:04 am

I doubt that the majority of people taking adderal truly need it. That said, I am not worried about those who receive extra accommodations. Excellence always pays; someone performing marginally better won't affect that. These complaints remind me of the racist/misogynistic rants of incompetent white men who claim to be disadvantaged because of affirmative action, when their own lack of abilities are the real problem.

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dingbat
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby dingbat » Thu May 10, 2012 3:09 am

arkansawyer wrote:I doubt that the majority of people taking adderal truly need it. That said, I am not worried about those who receive extra accommodations. Excellence always pays; someone performing marginally better won't affect that. These complaints remind me of the racist/misogynistic rants of incompetent white men who claim to be disadvantaged because of affirmative action, when their own lack of abilities are the real problem.

Funnily enough, I'm all for affirmative action (although I do think it is a flawed concept)
I find AA a necessary evil.
However, that's a separate conversation

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bk1
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby bk1 » Thu May 10, 2012 3:13 am

dingbat wrote:So not only does someone with extra time get an unfair testing advantage, but also screws up the curve, such that I seem relatively less good in comparison. I'd be really pissed if I was just below the interview cutoff for a firm when others got better grades than me due to an unfair advantage.


What's with the victim complex?

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BriaTharen
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby BriaTharen » Thu May 10, 2012 3:14 am

Yep, it's spring finals time. One of these threads seems to crop up around this time of the semester...

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sundance95
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby sundance95 » Thu May 10, 2012 3:16 am

bk1 wrote:
dingbat wrote:So not only does someone with extra time get an unfair testing advantage, but also screws up the curve, such that I seem relatively less good in comparison. I'd be really pissed if I was just below the interview cutoff for a firm when others got better grades than me due to an unfair advantage.


What's with the victim complex?

srsly.

Btw, I really want to be an olympic runner, but I have genetic asthma & morbid obesity. All I need to compete is extra time gais. 'Scool rite?

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dingbat
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby dingbat » Thu May 10, 2012 3:20 am

sundance95 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
dingbat wrote:So not only does someone with extra time get an unfair testing advantage, but also screws up the curve, such that I seem relatively less good in comparison. I'd be really pissed if I was just below the interview cutoff for a firm when others got better grades than me due to an unfair advantage.


What's with the victim complex?

srsly.

Btw, I really want to be an olympic runner, but I have genetic asthma & morbid obesity. All I need to compete is extra time gais. 'Scool rite?

thank you
I might not be athletically gifted, but I have my mind
I've had to deal with a disadvantage, but did it the hard way - perseverance - not by asking for special favors

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bk1
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby bk1 » Thu May 10, 2012 3:31 am

dingbat wrote:thank you
I might not be athletically gifted, but I have my mind
I've had to deal with a disadvantage, but did it the hard way - perseverance - not by asking for special favors


It's like a window back in time that lets me see 19th century views on mental illness.

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dingbat
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby dingbat » Thu May 10, 2012 3:34 am

bk1 wrote:
dingbat wrote:thank you
I might not be athletically gifted, but I have my mind
I've had to deal with a disadvantage, but did it the hard way - perseverance - not by asking for special favors


It's like a window back in time that lets me see 19th century views on mental illness.

I'll bite - in what sense?

Don't get me wrong, I think most people with mental illness are perfectly capable of functioning in society, but not in every function (the same way that a deaf person can't compose a symphony blind person should not drive a truck)

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BriaTharen
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby BriaTharen » Thu May 10, 2012 3:38 am

dingbat wrote:thank you
I might not be athletically gifted, but I have my mind
I've had to deal with a disadvantage, but did it the hard way - perseverance - not by asking for special favors


If you have a disadvantage that you were able to overcome by perseverance, then that's great for you. But generally, disabilities are called such because people can't do anything about it. I had a guy in my class last year that got extra time because his eyes underproduce moisture, so every couple of minutes, he's having to put eyedrops in his eyes. He also, because of this issue, has a lot of difficulty seeing. The guy is ambitious and smart as hell, but no amount of perseverance is going to make his eyes start producing moisture.

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dingbat
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby dingbat » Thu May 10, 2012 3:48 am

BriaTharen wrote:
dingbat wrote:thank you
I might not be athletically gifted, but I have my mind
I've had to deal with a disadvantage, but did it the hard way - perseverance - not by asking for special favors


If you have a disadvantage that you were able to overcome by perseverance, then that's great for you. But generally, disabilities are called such because people can't do anything about it. I had a guy in my class last year that got extra time because his eyes underproduce moisture, so every couple of minutes, he's having to put eyedrops in his eyes. He also, because of this issue, has a lot of difficulty seeing. The guy is ambitious and smart as hell, but no amount of perseverance is going to make his eyes start producing moisture.

I can't do anything about it. i just deal as best as I can and work that much harder to make sure the effect is minimized
(I also tried medication, but I found it... limiting)

That guy you use as an example, would just need to work a little faster to make up for time lost watering his eyes. Yes, it sucks. But that's the way it is. If he goes the biglaw route, do you think a client will pay him to water his eyes?
He'll waste X time per year watering his eyes, but will still be expected to bill just as many hours as the next associate. So, the sooner he adapts to working a little bit faster than the rest, the sooner it won't be a disability so much as a nuisance (probably not the right word, but it's 4 am)
Last edited by dingbat on Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby bk1 » Thu May 10, 2012 3:51 am

dingbat wrote:I'll bite - in what sense?

I was unnecessarily being a dick. I'll stop that.

1. Exam taking and a job aren't necessarily comparable. I'm okay with trying to put people on a level playing field in an artificial testing arena. I understand that not every unfairness in the world can be fixed, but it does not bother me in the slightest when others try to remedy these problems. Personally I don't go out of my way to advocate for these kinds of things but that's because I'm apathetic about most things.

2. In the real world someone who needs more time to do something can compensate by using their free time to work. That is not possible on a timed exam.

3. If some employer decides to hire someone else instead of me well then that's my own damn fault. It's not like these people make up anything but a small minority. Their impact on others in regards to both the curve and jobs is marginal at best. Not to mention that they are already predisposed to end up with poor grades so if you're genuinely capable you shouldn't have to worry about them.

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dingbat
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Re: Abuse of "disability" status to get more time on finals

Postby dingbat » Thu May 10, 2012 3:57 am

bk1 wrote:
dingbat wrote:I'll bite - in what sense?

I was unnecessarily being a dick. I'll stop that.

1. Exam taking and a job aren't necessarily comparable. I'm okay with trying to put people on a level playing field in an artificial testing arena. I understand that not every unfairness in the world can be fixed, but it does not bother me in the slightest when others try to remedy these problems. Personally I don't go out of my way to advocate for these kinds of things but that's because I'm apathetic about most things.

2. In the real world someone who needs more time to do something can compensate by using their free time to work. That is not possible on a timed exam.

3. If some employer decides to hire someone else instead of me well then that's my own damn fault. It's not like these people make up anything but a small minority. Their impact on others in regards to both the curve and jobs is marginal at best. Not to mention that they are already predisposed to end up with poor grades so if you're genuinely capable you shouldn't have to worry about them.

I actually agree with every one of your points (but less with #1, because of how hard it would be to quantify)




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