People popping pills

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bruss
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Re: People popping pills

Postby bruss » Tue May 01, 2012 12:39 pm

dailygrind wrote:
bruss wrote:acrossthelake Do you have all H's or a majority of H's? if not your doing it wrong


Lol. Those are high standards. What is that, like top 20% of the class at H? By those standards almost all of us are doing it wrong.


That's the whole point. He/She is going around saying stuff is so easy yet He/She doesn't almost always receive top marks.

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dailygrind
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dailygrind » Tue May 01, 2012 12:47 pm

That's not a comment on ATL's grades; it's a comment on the ludicrousness of that position.

Her argument, from what I can see, boils down to a disbelief in the strength of correlation of prior work with grades. Something which, personally, I have found varies a great deal from person to person. There are many classmates of mine who barely do any work (until the last month) and get great grades, and people who work their asses off and do poorly. Then there are people who have the reverse relationship. So, if prior work doesn't translate into stronger grades, then addy is "doing it wrong.'

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dresden doll
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dresden doll » Tue May 01, 2012 12:56 pm

dailygrind wrote:That's not a comment on ATL's grades; it's a comment on the ludicrousness of that position.

Her argument, from what I can see, boils down to a disbelief in the strength of correlation of prior work with grades. Something which, personally, I have found varies a great deal from person to person. There are many classmates of mine who barely do any work (until the last month) and get great grades, and people who work their asses off and do poorly. Then there are people who have the reverse relationship. So, if prior work doesn't translate into stronger grades, then addy is "doing it wrong.'


+1. I don't understand why it's so hard to comprehend that some find the curve, not the material difficult.

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birdlaw117
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Re: People popping pills

Postby birdlaw117 » Tue May 01, 2012 1:00 pm

I feel like addy might help someone to learn the BLL. But learning the BLL isn't usually very difficult and isn't how you differentiate yourself on the exam. Basically just +1ing the above.

bruss
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Re: People popping pills

Postby bruss » Tue May 01, 2012 1:04 pm

dailygrind wrote:That's not a comment on ATL's grades; it's a comment on the ludicrousness of that position.

Her argument, from what I can see, boils down to a disbelief in the strength of correlation of prior work with grades. Something which, personally, I have found varies a great deal from person to person. There are many classmates of mine who barely do any work (until the last month) and get great grades, and people who work their asses off and do poorly. Then there are people who have the reverse relationship. So, if prior work doesn't translate into stronger grades, then addy is "doing it wrong.'


Also to your point of showing up or not showing up to class, or studying for one month vs the whole year: These people clearly show that having Superior study habits are needed; Addy helps you get there.

Also I believe that variable is writing ability. if one were to control that then I'm pretty sure that we would all come to the conclusion that if someone study's harder and smarter than others, that person will receive a better grade.

bruss
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Re: People popping pills

Postby bruss » Tue May 01, 2012 1:05 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:I feel like addy might help someone to learn the BLL. But learning the BLL isn't usually very difficult and isn't how you differentiate yourself on the exam. Basically just +1ing the above.


so being able to focus longer wont help you in thinking of complex legal arguments on an exam?

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dresden doll
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dresden doll » Tue May 01, 2012 1:06 pm

bruss wrote:Also to your point of showing up or not showing up to class, or studying for one month vs the whole year: These people clearly show that having Superior study habits are needed; Addy helps you get there.


I'll believe it helps you catch up when you've procrastinated for months, but I disbelieve it's particularly helpful for anyone that's had lawl school under control all semester/quarter long.

bruss
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Re: People popping pills

Postby bruss » Tue May 01, 2012 1:09 pm

dresden doll wrote:
bruss wrote:Also to your point of showing up or not showing up to class, or studying for one month vs the whole year: These people clearly show that having Superior study habits are needed; Addy helps you get there.


I'll believe it helps you catch up when you've procrastinated for months, but I disbelieve it's particularly helpful for anyone that's had lawl school under control all semester/quarter long.



wow. So what you are saying is that addy doesn't work?

Addy helps boost brain performance so I'm pretty sure if you had law school under control the whole time then started taking addy you would have law school in a choke hold. Yes I know it might not work for all, but to say that because some one is good at something that means that that person could not be better at it is ridiculous.

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birdlaw117
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Re: People popping pills

Postby birdlaw117 » Tue May 01, 2012 1:11 pm

bruss wrote:Also I believe that variable is writing ability. if one were to control that then I'm pretty sure that we would all come to the conclusion that if someone study's harder and smarter than others, that person will receive a better grade.

Sure, if you control all the variables except for the one you want to measure you're going to see something that looks like a correlation. But that's just because you're ignoring the variables that are really doing the work.

bruss
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Re: People popping pills

Postby bruss » Tue May 01, 2012 1:16 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
bruss wrote:Also I believe that variable is writing ability. if one were to control that then I'm pretty sure that we would all come to the conclusion that if someone study's harder and smarter than others, that person will receive a better grade.

Sure, if you control all the variables except for the one you want to measure you're going to see something that looks like a correlation. But that's just because you're ignoring the variables that are really doing the work.


which variables would be doing all the work?

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birdlaw117
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Re: People popping pills

Postby birdlaw117 » Tue May 01, 2012 1:18 pm

bruss wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
bruss wrote:Also I believe that variable is writing ability. if one were to control that then I'm pretty sure that we would all come to the conclusion that if someone study's harder and smarter than others, that person will receive a better grade.

Sure, if you control all the variables except for the one you want to measure you're going to see something that looks like a correlation. But that's just because you're ignoring the variables that are really doing the work.


which variables would be doing all the work?

Writing ability. Reading comprehension (spot issues). Ability to think on your feet/analyze a complex set of facts. Knowing how your professor approaches a particular issue. Etc.

There are so many variables that to try and distill it down to 1 is an exercise in futility.

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acrossthelake
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Re: People popping pills

Postby acrossthelake » Tue May 01, 2012 1:26 pm

dresden doll wrote:
dailygrind wrote:That's not a comment on ATL's grades; it's a comment on the ludicrousness of that position.

Her argument, from what I can see, boils down to a disbelief in the strength of correlation of prior work with grades. Something which, personally, I have found varies a great deal from person to person. There are many classmates of mine who barely do any work (until the last month) and get great grades, and people who work their asses off and do poorly. Then there are people who have the reverse relationship. So, if prior work doesn't translate into stronger grades, then addy is "doing it wrong.'


+1. I don't understand why it's so hard to comprehend that some find the curve, not the material difficult.


Yeah +1.

My friends here don't find the material difficult, either, so I'm really not just speaking for myself.

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Bless
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Re: People popping pills

Postby Bless » Tue May 01, 2012 1:26 pm

J.Jergle.Jenkins wrote:
Yeah, yeah, here's another alt. Go ahead and make it a permanent ban, I'll just make another name. But just give me a better understanding of what has happened here, as you've seemed to sully Dr.Guano's good name without much reason other than he made "homophobic remarks."

All Dr. Guano did was call a user with a name related to Tony Romo, Tony Homo. Tis a name that many a non-Cowboy fan uses to poke fun at the Dallas QB who chokes under pressure constantly. Yeah, sure, in the strictest sense of homophobia, that's homophobic, but really? I think even in the insanely PC, though contradictory, times we live in, at least an Internet message board can stomach someone calling Tony Romo Tony Homo. So all I would like to know is really? Is that worthy of punishing Dr. Guano? Certainly many more things, even malicious things, have been said on TLS without receiving a ban.

I guess in the end it doesn't matter. I'll have a different name and the point will be moot. But, really all this over calling Tony Romo Tony Homo?


ROFLZ


Dude got banned for THAT? This site is mad gay, yo.

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Bless
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Re: People popping pills

Postby Bless » Tue May 01, 2012 1:30 pm

P.S.

I'm on an addy right now and I'm straight up destroying crim. #TFM #gunning #druggie #addicted



Side Note: Failed leg reg yesterday having consumed no adderall while studying.

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dowu
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dowu » Tue May 01, 2012 1:36 pm

Bless wrote:
J.Jergle.Jenkins wrote:
Yeah, yeah, here's another alt. Go ahead and make it a permanent ban, I'll just make another name. But just give me a better understanding of what has happened here, as you've seemed to sully Dr.Guano's good name without much reason other than he made "homophobic remarks."

All Dr. Guano did was call a user with a name related to Tony Romo, Tony Homo. Tis a name that many a non-Cowboy fan uses to poke fun at the Dallas QB who chokes under pressure constantly. Yeah, sure, in the strictest sense of homophobia, that's homophobic, but really? I think even in the insanely PC, though contradictory, times we live in, at least an Internet message board can stomach someone calling Tony Romo Tony Homo. So all I would like to know is really? Is that worthy of punishing Dr. Guano? Certainly many more things, even malicious things, have been said on TLS without receiving a ban.

I guess in the end it doesn't matter. I'll have a different name and the point will be moot. But, really all this over calling Tony Romo Tony Homo?


ROFLZ


Dude got banned for THAT? This site is mad gay, yo.


lol IBTB.

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acrossthelake
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Re: People popping pills

Postby acrossthelake » Tue May 01, 2012 1:40 pm

Bless wrote:P.S.

I'm on an addy right now and I'm straight up destroying crim. #TFM #gunning #druggie #addicted



Side Note: Failed leg reg yesterday having consumed no adderall while studying.


Well, you don't know that yet, your grades aren't out. That being said, if you "fail" legreg instead of simply doing "ok" because of not using adderrall then you're probably not doing law school right. But perhaps it was hyperbole.


dresden doll wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:Writing ability. Reading comprehension (spot issues). Ability to think on your feet/analyze a complex set of facts. Knowing how your professor approaches a particular issue. Etc.

There are so many variables that to try and distill it down to 1 is an exercise in futility.


Concur.


I'd throw in a small dose of luck.

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dresden doll
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dresden doll » Tue May 01, 2012 1:41 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:Writing ability. Reading comprehension (spot issues). Ability to think on your feet/analyze a complex set of facts. Knowing how your professor approaches a particular issue. Etc.

There are so many variables that to try and distill it down to 1 is an exercise in futility.


Concur.

bruss
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Re: People popping pills

Postby bruss » Tue May 01, 2012 1:49 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
bruss wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
bruss wrote:Also I believe that variable is writing ability. if one were to control that then I'm pretty sure that we would all come to the conclusion that if someone study's harder and smarter than others, that person will receive a better grade.

Sure, if you control all the variables except for the one you want to measure you're going to see something that looks like a correlation. But that's just because you're ignoring the variables that are really doing the work.


which variables would be doing all the work?

Writing ability. Reading comprehension (spot issues). Ability to think on your feet/analyze a complex set of facts. Knowing how your professor approaches a particular issue. Etc.

There are so many variables that to try and distill it down to 1 is an exercise in futility.


You get all these abilities from studying except the variable Knowing how your professor approaches a particular issue. And even this is learned from paying attention in class which addy will help you with.

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JCougar
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Re: People popping pills

Postby JCougar » Tue May 01, 2012 1:50 pm

bruss wrote:Also I believe that variable is writing ability. if one were to control that then I'm pretty sure that we would all come to the conclusion that if someone study's harder and smarter than others, that person will receive a better grade.


In my experience, writing ability has almost no correlation. I mean, my writing ability doesn't change from exam to exam, but my grades are all over the map.

I almost dropped out of my law journal because I really, really didn't want to write my note -- it was just such a frustrating experience. But I got a one-week extension and pretty much wrote 30 pages in 3 days, and it turns out it's getting published. I got an "A" on my midterm paper for one class, where the professor went out of his way to say I write very well -- but ended up getting below median on the exam after knowing the material cold. And in general, my grades are mediocre.

Most people on this board go to a school where 80-90% of the class is smart enough to understand the logic of the BLL and how it applies to facts. And even if you don't understand it, you just buy a commercial outline or an E&E and it's pretty much spelled out for you. The thing that differentiates people on exams is 1) ability to relax, focus, and be yourself during a extremely pressured time crunch, 2) having a good outline that is short yet thorough, and 3) typing speed -- which only helps with the time crunch aspect, but again, if you're typing about stuff that everyone understands already, it can only help to say more about it as long as you can stay somewhat relevant. I've seen model answers from past exams that had horrible, terrible writing -- run-on sentences, typos, misspelled words, bad grammar, etc. As long as the professor can figure out what you mean, you will probably get points.

I took Ritalin in high school to motivate me to do my calculus and advanced physics homework, and I have to admit that it worked. But that stuff was way harder than anything you learn in law school, and there was no "commercial outlines" that you could just buy and have your work done for you. Plus, good grades on law exams are about being a little bit relaxed and creative -- not about being extremely focused and disciplined. I just can't see how uppers would help, but to each his own.

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Bless
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Re: People popping pills

Postby Bless » Tue May 01, 2012 2:00 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
Bless wrote:P.S.

I'm on an addy right now and I'm straight up destroying crim. #TFM #gunning #druggie #addicted



Side Note: Failed leg reg yesterday having consumed no adderall while studying.


Well, you don't know that yet, your grades aren't out. That being said, if you "fail" legreg instead of simply doing "ok" because of not using adderrall then you're probably not doing law school right. But perhaps it was hyperbole.

It was meant to be, but I guess time will tell. (Please God, help me.)

And I don't blame my crappy-grade-to-be in leg reg on not taking adderall. I'm just busting chops.

bruss
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Re: People popping pills

Postby bruss » Tue May 01, 2012 2:11 pm

JCougar wrote:
bruss wrote:Also I believe that variable is writing ability. if one were to control that then I'm pretty sure that we would all come to the conclusion that if someone study's harder and smarter than others, that person will receive a better grade.


In my experience, writing ability has almost no correlation. I mean, my writing ability doesn't change from exam to exam, but my grades are all over the map.

I almost dropped out of my law journal because I really, really didn't want to write my note -- it was just such a frustrating experience. But I got a one-week extension and pretty much wrote 30 pages in 3 days, and it turns out it's getting published. I got an "A" on my midterm paper for one class, where the professor went out of his way to say I write very well -- but ended up getting below median on the exam after knowing the material cold. And in general, my grades are mediocre.

Most people on this board go to a school where 80-90% of the class is smart enough to understand the logic of the BLL and how it applies to facts. And even if you don't understand it, you just buy a commercial outline or an E&E and it's pretty much spelled out for you. The thing that differentiates people on exams is 1) ability to relax, focus, and be yourself during a extremely pressured time crunch, 2) having a good outline that is short yet thorough, and 3) typing speed -- which only helps with the time crunch aspect, but again, if you're typing about stuff that everyone understands already, it can only help to say more about it as long as you can stay somewhat relevant. I've seen model answers from past exams that had horrible, terrible writing -- run-on sentences, typos, misspelled words, bad grammar, etc. As long as the professor can figure out what you mean, you will probably get points.

I took Ritalin in high school to motivate me to do my calculus and advanced physics homework, and I have to admit that it worked. But that stuff was way harder than anything you learn in law school, and there was no "commercial outlines" that you could just buy and have your work done for you. Plus, good grades on law exams are about being a little bit relaxed and creative -- not about being extremely focused and disciplined. I just can't see how uppers would help, but to each his own.


Ok when i say writing ability im talking about being able to put your thoughts on paper. I believe that we all can agree that if you study harder and smarter, then you thoughts will be better than what they were before. With you being able to think better the only thing that stops you from getting top marks is that you cannot write what you are thinking. I'm not talking about run-on sentences or junk like that. I'm talking about being able to present a complex argument on paper and having your professor understand what the hell you are talking about.


Edit: Congrats on being published!

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acrossthelake
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Re: People popping pills

Postby acrossthelake » Tue May 01, 2012 2:28 pm

JCougar wrote:
Most people on this board go to a school where 80-90% of the class is smart enough to understand the logic of the BLL and how it applies to facts. And even if you don't understand it, you just buy a commercial outline or an E&E and it's pretty much spelled out for you.... Plus, good grades on law exams are about being a little bit relaxed and creative -- not about being extremely focused and disciplined. I just can't see how uppers would help, but to each his own.


+1

bruss wrote:I believe that we all can agree that if you study harder and smarter, then you thoughts will be better than what they were before.


I actually think this is something that is sparking most of the disagreement. In the context of law school exams, not really. In advanced physics, sure. There's a relatively low ceiling for a lot of a law school exam. Sometimes there's just not that much to say about Batman's criminal liability for running over a pedestrian on his way to saving the day once you've gone over possible charges, the elements, your analysis of how it fits, and possible policy arguments. I think and know most of my classmates are smart enough to hit that ceiling, which is what makes the curve frustrating. I'm actually pretty annoyed when profs give us "easy" exams, because the curve ends up being overly tight, and distinctions become meaningless.

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JCougar
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Re: People popping pills

Postby JCougar » Tue May 01, 2012 2:39 pm

bruss wrote:Ok when i say writing ability im talking about being able to put your thoughts on paper. I believe that we all can agree that if you study harder and smarter, then you thoughts will be better than what they were before. With you being able to think better the only thing that stops you from getting top marks is that you cannot write what you are thinking. I'm not talking about run-on sentences or junk like that. I'm talking about being able to present a complex argument on paper and having your professor understand what the hell you are talking about.


Edit: Congrats on being published!


The thing is, most legal analysis isn't all that complex at all. Maybe a few sub-sections of CivPro and the estates part of Property are a bit convoluted. But Crim Law, Torts, Contracts (except for maybe UCC) and Con Law are mostly straightforward. I mean, 80% of cases in law boil down to some 3-part test, or a "balancing test." How hard is it to copy out the three factors from your outline and then say how each one applies to the facts? The points you get lie in whether your professor thinks your analysis is relevant -- and a lot of professors have different views on that. I'm more straightforward and practical in the way I think, so I do much better with professors who are oriented that way as opposed to the more academic-minded ones that want layers of speculation and sophistry.

I've seen harder logic on the LSAT than I have on any law exam. The only thing that's come close that's actually been on one of my exams is the complex joinder/Exxon Mobile rules in CivPro, a few concepts in Securities Regulation such as Rule 144, and 8b4/DiBartolo issues in Labor Law.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: People popping pills

Postby FantasticMrFox » Tue May 01, 2012 2:39 pm

this thread makes me want to try adderall to see its effects on my actual performance

bruss
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Re: People popping pills

Postby bruss » Tue May 01, 2012 2:49 pm

JCougar wrote:
bruss wrote:Ok when i say writing ability im talking about being able to put your thoughts on paper. I believe that we all can agree that if you study harder and smarter, then you thoughts will be better than what they were before. With you being able to think better the only thing that stops you from getting top marks is that you cannot write what you are thinking. I'm not talking about run-on sentences or junk like that. I'm talking about being able to present a complex argument on paper and having your professor understand what the hell you are talking about.


Edit: Congrats on being published!


The thing is, most legal analysis isn't all that complex at all. Maybe a few sub-sections of CivPro and the estates part of Property are a bit convoluted. But Crim Law, Torts, Contracts (except for maybe UCC) and Con Law are mostly straightforward. I mean, 80% of cases in law boil down to some 3-part test, or a "balancing test." How hard is it to copy out the three factors from your outline and then say how each one applies to the facts? The points you get lie in whether your professor thinks your analysis is relevant -- and a lot of professors have different views on that. I'm more straightforward and practical in the way I think, so I do much better with professors who are oriented that way as opposed to the more academic-minded ones that want layers of speculation and sophistry.

I've seen harder logic on the LSAT than I have on any law exam. The only thing that's come close that's actually been on one of my exams is the complex joinder/Exxon Mobile rules in CivPro, a few concepts in Securities Regulation such as Rule 144, and 8b4/DiBartolo issues in Labor Law.


Not saying that the exam questions are complexed, I'm saying your arugment should be, less you become median.




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