People popping pills

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dowu
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dowu » Tue May 01, 2012 11:12 pm

acrossthelake wrote:No, I don't. I know it causes more executive control. In general it's a good thing, but there is a point at which it impedes creativity.


ATL, so if the law is pretty bland and straightforward and it's applicability depends entirely on circumstances, when does creativity come into play?

In other words, why are you emphasizing the necessity of creativity in the forum of studying law?

I'm an 0L, so I've obviously never studied the law in depth. I'm just looking to hear reasons why you argue its hinderance on creativity is a bad thing? I will definitely agree though, it does make me FEEL less "creative", but as far as studying, memorization, focus ability, motivation, and brute learning, it's worked wonders.

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sunynp
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Re: People popping pills

Postby sunynp » Tue May 01, 2012 11:16 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:No, I don't. I know it causes more executive control. In general it's a good thing, but there is a point at which it impedes creativity.


ATL, so if the law is pretty bland and straightforward and it's applicability depends entirely on circumstances, when does creativity come into play?

In other words, why are you emphasizing the necessity of creativity in the forum of studying law?

I'm an 0L, so I've obviously never studied the law in depth. I'm just looking to hear reasons why you argue its hinderance on creativity is a bad thing? I will definitely agree though, it does make me FEEL less "creative", but as far as studying, memorization, focus ability, motivation, and brute learning, it's worked wonders.



DUDE: read the 0L notice viewtopic.php?f=3&t=170599
Start another thread in the right place if you really care. ( I hope Im doing this right.)

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ilovesf
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Re: People popping pills

Postby ilovesf » Tue May 01, 2012 11:17 pm

I thought 0Ls weren't supposed to be extensively posting in the forum for law students.

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JCougar
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Re: People popping pills

Postby JCougar » Tue May 01, 2012 11:19 pm

Doing well on a law exam does require some creativity, albeit at a low level. 80% of the points aren't for remembering or understanding the BLL. It's in your "analysis" of how you use the facts to create a plausible legal argument. That does sometimes require you to think outside the box and be flexible with your categorizations. It depends on the professor, as well. Some reward you for basically copying rote doctrine from your outline. Some want you to raise issues that aren't even indicated by the fact pattern. But you still need some level of creative thinking.

It's not like art school level creativity, but it's not flat out reciting technical rules either.

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acrossthelake
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Re: People popping pills

Postby acrossthelake » Tue May 01, 2012 11:25 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:No, I don't. I know it causes more executive control. In general it's a good thing, but there is a point at which it impedes creativity.


ATL, so if the law is pretty bland and straightforward and it's applicability depends entirely on circumstances, when does creativity come into play?

In other words, why are you emphasizing the necessity of creativity in the forum of studying law?

I'm an 0L, so I've obviously never studied the law in depth. I'm just looking to hear reasons why you argue its hinderance on creativity is a bad thing? I will definitely agree though, it does make me FEEL less "creative", but as far as studying, memorization, focus ability, motivation, and brute learning, it's worked wonders.


I just think the hurdle in law school exams isn't determined by the the amount of time you spend studying, memorizing, or "brute learning". Sure, there's a minimum level of effort you need to put in. Nobody shows up to an exam and does well without either 1) somebody else's outline or 2) some time spent learning the material. But I've seen profs show us "great" exams that stated rules incorrectly, which the prof pointed out, but then said that the student applied this incorrect rule in such a great fashion that they racked up more points than a lot of people who got the rule right. I just don't see how using adderrall to study really helps with that.

I don't think creativity is a huge deal. You need some, but I'm not very creative *at all*, but I have enough to do well. I was just stating that it's true that too much executive control can impede certain types of creativity, since bruss seems to be suggesting that it can't possibly do anything bad at all. I don't deny that adderall can help with studying, memorizing, etc.

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ilovesf
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Re: People popping pills

Postby ilovesf » Tue May 01, 2012 11:31 pm

Totally depends on what the professor wants. Some professors are fine with an essay with 100 typos so long as you type out what can happen under any scenario imaginable, and basically the more you say, the better. Some professors want a well thought out, eloquent and concise essay. They require very different strategies and levels of creativity.

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dowu
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dowu » Tue May 01, 2012 11:34 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:No, I don't. I know it causes more executive control. In general it's a good thing, but there is a point at which it impedes creativity.


ATL, so if the law is pretty bland and straightforward and it's applicability depends entirely on circumstances, when does creativity come into play?

In other words, why are you emphasizing the necessity of creativity in the forum of studying law?

I'm an 0L, so I've obviously never studied the law in depth. I'm just looking to hear reasons why you argue its hinderance on creativity is a bad thing? I will definitely agree though, it does make me FEEL less "creative", but as far as studying, memorization, focus ability, motivation, and brute learning, it's worked wonders.


I just think the hurdle in law school exams isn't determined by the the amount of time you spend studying, memorizing, or "brute learning". Sure, there's a minimum level of effort you need to put in. Nobody shows up to an exam and does well without either 1) somebody else's outline or 2) some time spent learning the material. But I've seen profs show us "great" exams that stated rules incorrectly, which the prof pointed out, but then said that the student applied this incorrect rule in such a great fashion that they racked up more points than a lot of people who got the rule right. I just don't see how using adderrall to study really helps with that.

I don't think creativity is a huge deal. You need some, but I'm not very creative *at all*, but I have enough to do well. I was just stating that it's true that too much executive control can impede certain types of creativity, since bruss seems to be suggesting that it can't possibly do anything bad at all. I don't deny that adderall can help with studying, memorizing, etc.


Oh, okay. Well fair enough... I can definitely see where you're coming from and what point your trying to make, which is that adderall is simply not necessary if you aren't prescribed it and it can be bad in some cases because of too much executive control, which could impede your ability in other areas. Further, that one should be able to do the things law school demands without needed to do the cracked out work that someone who doesnt need adderall but takes it will do. Very good points.

sunynp wrote:
DUDE: read the 0L notice viewtopic.php?f=3&t=170599
Start another thread in the right place if you really care. ( I hope Im doing this right.)


Dude, the thread title was something I knew would turn into an adderall debate. I'll stay out of it since I'm just a useless 0L, mainly because I dont feel like getting banned, but I dont see how you guys are talking about anything above me, nor below me, since this thread became relevant to my situation.

ETA: That thread that you linked says not to post questions in the forum for law students. It never says anything about people, particularly 0Ls, participating in the conversation. Some law student you are, sunynp. HTH.

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birdlaw117
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Re: People popping pills

Postby birdlaw117 » Wed May 02, 2012 12:12 am

To be fair about the 0L thing, this is how adderall benefits or does not benefit someone talking a law exam. It seems as though you can't really speak to that.

And the point that ATL, I, and others have been making is that you don't differentiate yourself by knowing the BLL. At least not here at NYU and not at HLS. Everyone knows the BLL. So if you want to take adderall in order to learn that, then whatever. I happen to think there is a pretty good amount of creativity that goes into doing well on a law exam. Obviously it's not creative writing or art or something like that, but coming up with a variety of arguments, particularly unique arguments that your classmates have not come up with, is what differentiates you.

ETA: the whole idea behind that focus thing earlier that some of you disagreed with me about is because I think focus is probably a zero-sum game. Executive function is great and all, but recognition is necessary before that even matters.

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Re: People popping pills

Postby crEEp » Wed May 02, 2012 12:37 am

I'll add something new: I have synesthesia and am left-handed (with right hemisphere dominance for language); together, these traits are correlated with the onset of attention deficit disorder. My brain works differently than my classmates' not because of disinterest or laziness, but because of genetics. For me, stimulants are like a convex lens: they focus my creative brain power onto a single topic area. In other words, they enable me to shift from a predominantly divergent mode of thinking to the convergent mode required for exams.

Please remember that neither classroom lectures nor timed exams are illustrative of real life. I take stimulants to mitigate the effect of a model that unjustifiably favors left hemisphere dominance and convergent modes of thinking. As such, they're not "academic steroids," but instead make me like everyone else.

I just feel sorry for people who ritualistically abuse stimulants, because it will catch up to them when they're paying thousands a week for "the good stuff" until their heart just can't take it anymore and explodes from the stress. That said, please realize that those who were legitimately prescribed the medication were diagnosed by a licensed physician to have a medical condition. Criticizing them because they take a certain medication that allows them to perform better on exams is like criticizing students who wear eyeglasses to take the exam. I mean, I have perfect vision and I can read the exam just fine; it's not fair that someone else gets to wear glasses and do better than me!!!!

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Re: People popping pills

Postby dowu » Wed May 02, 2012 12:39 am

birdlaw117 wrote:To be fair about the 0L thing, this is how adderall benefits or does not benefit someone talking a law exam. It seems as though you can't really speak to that.

And the point that ATL, I, and others have been making is that you don't differentiate yourself by knowing the BLL. At least not here at NYU and not at HLS. Everyone knows the BLL. So if you want to take adderall in order to learn that, then whatever. I happen to think there is a pretty good amount of creativity that goes into doing well on a law exam. Obviously it's not creative writing or art or something like that, but coming up with a variety of arguments, particularly unique arguments that your classmates have not come up with, is what differentiates you.

ETA: the whole idea behind that focus thing earlier that some of you disagreed with me about is because I think focus is probably a zero-sum game. Executive function is great and all, but recognition is necessary before that even matters.


Okay, and I agreed with ATLs sentiment about the whole adderall discussion and I also agree with yours, even though I'm not in law school.


birdlaw117 wrote:To be fair about the 0L thing, this is how adderall benefits or does not benefit someone talking a law exam. It seems as though you can't really speak to that.


Well, if we're going to be fair from now on, the OP doesnt say shit about taking adderall and its involvement with law school exams. All that he says is that he's wondering about what type of environment LS libraries are since he hears pill bottles opening left and right while studying. Some of you law students (birdlaw117 and sunynp) really aren't paying very much attention to what they read. HTH.

-0L who takes adderall, with a prescription.

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birdlaw117
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Re: People popping pills

Postby birdlaw117 » Wed May 02, 2012 12:50 am

nmop_apisdn wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:To be fair about the 0L thing, this is how adderall benefits or does not benefit someone talking a law exam. It seems as though you can't really speak to that.


Well, if we're going to be fair from now on, the OP doesnt say shit about taking adderall and its involvement with law school exams. All that he says is that he's wondering about what type of environment LS libraries are since he hears pill bottles opening left and right while studying. Some of you law students (birdlaw117 and sunynp) really aren't paying very much attention to what they read. HTH.

So I don't actually give a shit about whether or not you post ITT. But this is the forum FOR law students. So in that sense, the OP really DOES say shit about this being for law students. So don't tell me that I'm not paying attention to what I read. It says all over the damn page what forum this is in. If you wouldn't have responded to this and gone off about how you SHOULD get to post here, I wouldn't have cared at all.

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dowu
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dowu » Wed May 02, 2012 1:07 am

birdlaw117 wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:To be fair about the 0L thing, this is how adderall benefits or does not benefit someone talking a law exam. It seems as though you can't really speak to that.


Well, if we're going to be fair from now on, the OP doesnt say shit about taking adderall and its involvement with law school exams. All that he says is that he's wondering about what type of environment LS libraries are since he hears pill bottles opening left and right while studying. Some of you law students (birdlaw117 and sunynp) really aren't paying very much attention to what they read. HTH.


So I don't actually give a shit about whether or not you post ITT. But this is the forum FOR law students. So in that sense, the OP really DOES say shit about this being for law students. So don't tell me that I'm not paying attention to what I read. It says all over the damn page what forum this is in. If you wouldn't have responded to this and gone off about how you SHOULD get to post here, I wouldn't have cared at all.


Well you obviously do give a shit if I post ITT since you stated:

birdlaw117 wrote:To be fair about the 0L thing, this is how adderall benefits or does not benefit someone talking a law exam. It seems as though you can't really speak to that.


If you didnt "actually give a shit", then why the fuck did you say anything?

I then told sunynp that the thread he linked said nothing about 0Ls posting in these threads, only about 0Ls starting threads to ask questions. You apparently concurred that I shouldn't be here with the aforementioned statement.

In the beginning of this thread, way before the madness was born, I was asking how many people the OP thought people were taking adderall in LSand then he went to talk about how he thought it was unhelpful for some subjects while helpful in others, which leads us to now.

In the same way, the handicap stall is FOR handicap persons, but I take shits in it all of the time. Just because something is FOR someone, doesnt necessarily exclude others from participating in its usage. It's the same case for here on TLS. The LSAT prep forum is FOR LSAT preppers, but anyone can chime in. I have read the threads stating 0Ls should not be starting new threads to ask questions in this subsection, since there's a separate forum for that. However, that's not what I did.

I didnt come here to talk about whether I'm allowed to post here or not. I came to talk about PEOPLE POPPING PILLS, which seemed like a pretty general thread title in itself, thus leaving itself vulnerable to comment from the general public on TLS.

If you'd like me to pwn the fuck out of you, you oh so superior LS student, PM me. Otherwise, I'm out. As for the rest of everyone else ITT, we cool.

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Re: People popping pills

Postby birdlaw117 » Wed May 02, 2012 1:09 am

nmop_apisdn wrote:In the same way, the handicap stall is FOR handicap persons, but I take shits in it all of the time.

This comment seems particularly fitting since you are shitting all over this thread.

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dowu
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dowu » Wed May 02, 2012 1:11 am

birdlaw117 wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:In the same way, the handicap stall is FOR handicap persons, but I take shits in it all of the time.

This comment seems particularly fitting since you are shitting all over this thread.


Dont act like this thread had any particular direction. Like I said, PM me if you want me to shit all over your sorry ass. Otherwise, stop shitting up this thread with "OmG 0L duznt nkow shiT whies he HERe!".

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ilovesf
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Re: People popping pills

Postby ilovesf » Wed May 02, 2012 1:13 am

NR posted this in another topic in this forum. I think maybe it could help you understand this a bit better.
Unrelated note: 0Ls, this is a forum for law students. If you want to read along with this particular shitshow, then feel free, but I shouldn't see you posting repeatedly, proffering your opinion of what you would do. Go read Getting to Maybe or something.

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dood
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dood » Wed May 02, 2012 1:15 am

sundance95 wrote:This thread got shitty.


seriously. why do u guys write so much?? oh yeah, b/c everyone poasting in this thread is HIGH as FUK on ADDY.

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dowu
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dowu » Wed May 02, 2012 1:16 am

ilovesf wrote:NR posted this in another topic in this forum. I think maybe it could help you understand this a bit better.
Unrelated note: 0Ls, this is a forum for law students. If you want to read along with this particular shitshow, then feel free, but I shouldn't see you posting repeatedly, proffering your opinion of what you would do. Go read Getting to Maybe or something.


This is relevant and I didnt see it. I was informed by a mod that I wouldnt be banned for my participation. I'm done though, really. Later!

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birdlaw117
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Re: People popping pills

Postby birdlaw117 » Wed May 02, 2012 1:16 am

nmop_apisdn wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:In the same way, the handicap stall is FOR handicap persons, but I take shits in it all of the time.

This comment seems particularly fitting since you are shitting all over this thread.


Dont act like this thread had any particular direction. Like I said, PM me if you want me to shit all over your sorry ass. Otherwise, stop shitting up this thread with "OmG 0L duznt nkow shiT whies he HERe!".

If this thread didn't have a particular direction it would be in the lounge. And I love your characterizations of what I'm saying. :roll:

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Re: People popping pills

Postby acrossthelake » Wed May 02, 2012 1:20 am

First, thanks for your contribution, crEEp. It's consistent with what I've been saying, and it's really nice to hear about it from someone who actually needs & uses it rather than in the impersonal "15 of the subjects..." prose of studies. For the record, absolutely 0 people in the thread were opposed to people who actually need it taking it. The debate has generally centered around people who ritualistically abuse stimulants.


To clarify what I see as the sort of "purpose" behind that rule, and disclaimer, this isn't a mod-wide discussed standard:

1) I don't want 0Ls up in here pontificating about what determines success on law school exams, since they haven't taken any under normal 1L conditions. This used to be a fairly rampant problem before implementation of the rule. nmop_aspidn's posting doesn't really violate that here---he has mostly contributed commentary about what adderrall is like for somebody prescribed, and questions rather than guesses about how that applies to law school exams.

2) I don't want this forum to be littered with threads dedicated to 0L questions, especially because most are redundant.

If you have a problem with an 0L posting a thread, just report it instead of arguing about it. A lot of times we make judgment calls based on a standard instead of a rule. I don't have a problem with nmop_apisdn's presence in this thread because though he treads a bit in violation of purpose #2, I'd say that most of this thread has been a meaningless and valueless shitshow between bruss and I anyway, and that nmop_aspidn's presence didn't really detract from that. A ban would've been handed out if he had started arguing positions, but whatever. A different mod might have been more harsh, but eh.

ETA: AND I just finished the paper that I've been angsting about for the duration of this thread. Now that I don't need this as an outlet for my anxiety, I'm done.

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dowu
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dowu » Wed May 02, 2012 1:52 am

acrossthelake wrote:ETA: AND I just finished the paper that I've been angsting about for the duration of this thread. Now that I don't need this as an outlet for my anxiety, I'm done.


Good shit. You're almost done, ATL. Keep up the good work.
Last edited by dowu on Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:25 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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TTTLS
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Re: People popping pills

Postby TTTLS » Wed May 02, 2012 2:34 pm

dood wrote:
sundance95 wrote:This thread got shitty.


seriously. why do u guys write so much?? oh yeah, b/c everyone poasting in this thread is HIGH as FUK on ADDY.

Credited.

waxecstatic
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Re: People popping pills

Postby waxecstatic » Wed May 02, 2012 5:30 pm

When I've taken Adderall, I would feel as though any information was easily conquerable and that sitting down and going through some of the most esoteric material was no problem. Since I don't have ADD, the drug would make me somewhat manic (although maybe that can still happen absent ADD) such that my expectations were more delusional than realistic. In the end, after a comedown, I would look at whatever I covered on a day in which I took Adderall and would be able to comprehend and apply maybe 5% of it. It's important to actually test yourself, and not just assume that since you understood it while taking a drug you have it down pat. Plus, oftentimes I would take it and then later in the day I'd realize I had so much brain fuzz that I couldn't exactly understand anything I had learned, or it may be jumbled, and that day would essentially have been a waste.

Some days would be quite successful and the above wouldn't happen, more often that not it would though, and other days I'd just talk on gmail or watch videos on youtube.

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PARTY
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Re: People popping pills

Postby PARTY » Wed May 02, 2012 5:31 pm

waxecstatic wrote:When I've taken Adderall, I would feel as though any information was easily conquerable and that sitting down and going through some of the most esoteric material was no problem. Since I don't have ADD, the drug would make me somewhat manic (although maybe that can still happen absent ADD) such that my expectations were more delusional than realistic. In the end, after a comedown, I would look at whatever I covered on a day in which I took Adderall and would be able to comprehend and apply maybe 5% of it. It's important to actually test yourself, and not just assume that since you understood it while taking a drug you have it down pat. Plus, oftentimes I would take it and then later in the day I'd realize I had so much brain fuzz that I couldn't exactly understand anything I had learned, or it may be jumbled, and that day would essentially have been a waste.

Some days would be quite successful and the above wouldn't happen, more often that not it would though, and other days I'd just talk on gmail or watch videos on youtube.


you're doing it wrong.

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Tanicius
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Re: People popping pills

Postby Tanicius » Wed May 02, 2012 5:38 pm

waxecstatic wrote:When I've taken Adderall, I would feel as though any information was easily conquerable and that sitting down and going through some of the most esoteric material was no problem. Since I don't have ADD, the drug would make me somewhat manic (although maybe that can still happen absent ADD) such that my expectations were more delusional than realistic. In the end, after a comedown, I would look at whatever I covered on a day in which I took Adderall and would be able to comprehend and apply maybe 5% of it. It's important to actually test yourself, and not just assume that since you understood it while taking a drug you have it down pat. Plus, oftentimes I would take it and then later in the day I'd realize I had so much brain fuzz that I couldn't exactly understand anything I had learned, or it may be jumbled, and that day would essentially have been a waste.

Some days would be quite successful and the above wouldn't happen, more often that not it would though, and other days I'd just talk on gmail or watch videos on youtube.



I loved that movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne8YmpVVH4Q

Geneva
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Re: People popping pills

Postby Geneva » Thu May 03, 2012 2:07 am

I.P. Daly wrote:Image


hey guys, has this thread already touched on the manner in which adderall leads to brain changes?




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