People popping pills

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birdlaw117
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Re: People popping pills

Postby birdlaw117 » Tue May 01, 2012 9:40 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:ETA: You're an idiot. You act like adderall changes your entire mindset, which is clearly demonstrated as false if youve ever taken it.

If there is zero impact to your mindset the drug wouldn't be able to do all the things that the pro-addy crowd claims it does. You can't have it both ways brah.

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dowu
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dowu » Tue May 01, 2012 9:50 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:ETA: You're an idiot. You act like adderall changes your entire mindset, which is clearly demonstrated as false if youve ever taken it.

If there is zero impact to your mindset the drug wouldn't be able to do all the things that the pro-addy crowd claims it does. You can't have it both ways brah.


Sorry, I meant changes ones mindset in a negative way.

To be frank, idc, I have a prescription for it and I think, in moderation, its very helpful with or without ADD. Of course, you can abuse it to the point of it turning into a negative thing, but used in low doses is positively helpful in most cases.

bruss
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Re: People popping pills

Postby bruss » Tue May 01, 2012 9:52 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
bruss wrote:Wow you guys just aren't getting it. You don't practice creativity, you practice so you can be creative with your arguments.

Also stop with the misinformation. Addy is NOT just for repetitive tasks. It helps people think more clearly.

Addy helps you focus on one task better, right? Well, that necessarily means that once you start thinking about a single solution or argument (like on a law exam), then you will likely overlook other arguments and solutions to various issues. You are likely to zone in on a particular issue rather than discuss multiple issues. In that sense, it can be detrimental. Do you really want to keep at this? You probably took some addy earlier and haven't been able to get yourself away from making the same argument over and over and over. Just like the problem you probably have a law exams.


Too much speculation in this post.

ETA: You're an idiot. You act like adderall changes your entire mindset, which is clearly demonstrated as false if youve ever taken it.


Yeah so much misinformation. Addy is not a drug that will make you so focused that you become oblivious to your task. Addy helps you focus on the task at hand, and if that task is to look at multiple solutions it will help you do that. Addy does not make you become so focused that you become ocd.

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birdlaw117
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Re: People popping pills

Postby birdlaw117 » Tue May 01, 2012 9:57 pm

bruss wrote:Yeah so much misinformation. Addy is not a drug that will make you so focused that you become obvious to your task. Addy helps you focus on the task at hand, and if that task is to look at multiple solutions it will help you do that. Addy does not make you become so focused that you become ocd.

Focusing on something well necessarily means you aren't focusing on other things. That's the problem. Apparently you're focusing on the wrong part of my argument to the detriment of the rest of it.

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birdlaw117
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Re: People popping pills

Postby birdlaw117 » Tue May 01, 2012 9:58 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:ETA: You're an idiot. You act like adderall changes your entire mindset, which is clearly demonstrated as false if youve ever taken it.

If there is zero impact to your mindset the drug wouldn't be able to do all the things that the pro-addy crowd claims it does. You can't have it both ways brah.


Sorry, I meant changes ones mindset in a negative way.

To be frank, idc, I have a prescription for it and I think, in moderation, its very helpful with or without ADD. Of course, you can abuse it to the point of it turning into a negative thing, but used in low doses is positively helpful in most cases.

So, your post basically says it doesn't change your mindset in a negative way except for the times that it does. Cool.

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dowu
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Re: People popping pills

Postby dowu » Tue May 01, 2012 10:03 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:ETA: You're an idiot. You act like adderall changes your entire mindset, which is clearly demonstrated as false if youve ever taken it.

If there is zero impact to your mindset the drug wouldn't be able to do all the things that the pro-addy crowd claims it does. You can't have it both ways brah.


Sorry, I meant changes ones mindset in a negative way.

To be frank, idc, I have a prescription for it and I think, in moderation, its very helpful with or without ADD. Of course, you can abuse it to the point of it turning into a negative thing, but used in low doses is positively helpful in most cases.

So, your post basically says it doesn't change your mindset in a negative way except for the times that it does. Cool.


No. I said it is positive for most people, in moderation. As almost anything else, there are outliers.

Now, about the mindset changing, I think that it gives you an ability to focus better and think more clearly, on whatever it is your rational mind knows it wants to focus on. If you decide to clean your room for 5 hours, then yeah, you'll do it. But if you have the mindset that you need to read and try to understand a certain subject and everything about it, you will certainly do so. Its about the person using it and what they decide to do with it.

If you don't like it, then don't take it. There's no reason to hate on it if its not causing you harm.

bruss
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Re: People popping pills

Postby bruss » Tue May 01, 2012 10:10 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
bruss wrote:Yeah so much misinformation. Addy is not a drug that will make you so focused that you become obvious to your task. Addy helps you focus on the task at hand, and if that task is to look at multiple solutions it will help you do that. Addy does not make you become so focused that you become ocd.

Focusing on something well necessarily means you aren't focusing on other things. That's the problem. Apparently you're focusing on the wrong part of my argument to the detriment of the rest of it.


You must be trying to be retarded. It helps you focus on what you want to focus on. It does not make you ocd. If you are focusing on the test then you will focus on the test. If the test calls for thinking of different solutions you will be able to think more clear than usual.

By your logic people who use Addy will be driving a car and not stop at red light because they can't focus on ALL parts of driving because they are focusing on making the car go forward.

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birdlaw117
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Re: People popping pills

Postby birdlaw117 » Tue May 01, 2012 10:13 pm

bruss wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
bruss wrote:Yeah so much misinformation. Addy is not a drug that will make you so focused that you become obvious to your task. Addy helps you focus on the task at hand, and if that task is to look at multiple solutions it will help you do that. Addy does not make you become so focused that you become ocd.

Focusing on something well necessarily means you aren't focusing on other things. That's the problem. Apparently you're focusing on the wrong part of my argument to the detriment of the rest of it.


You must be trying to be retarded. It helps you focus on what you want to focus on. It does not make you ocd. If you are focusing on the test then you will focus on the test. If the test calls for thinking of different solutions you will be able to think more clear than usual.

By your logic people who use Addy will be driving a car and not stop at red light because they can't focus on ALL parts of driving because they are focusing on making the car go forward.

So you're saying it doesn't help you focus on things? Sounds like a useful drug then.

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Kabuo
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Re: People popping pills

Postby Kabuo » Tue May 01, 2012 10:16 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:ETA: You're an idiot. You act like adderall changes your entire mindset, which is clearly demonstrated as false if youve ever taken it.

If there is zero impact to your mindset the drug wouldn't be able to do all the things that the pro-addy crowd claims it does. You can't have it both ways brah.


It can change your mindset without changing it in a bad way. It can also change some things about you and not your entire mindset. You know, like maybe helping to eradicate the boredom of studying and constant desire to check TLS for horrible reasoning skills and lulz.

birdlaw117 wrote:
bruss wrote:Yeah so much misinformation. Addy is not a drug that will make you so focused that you become obvious to your task. Addy helps you focus on the task at hand, and if that task is to look at multiple solutions it will help you do that. Addy does not make you become so focused that you become ocd.

Focusing on something well necessarily means you aren't focusing on other things. That's the problem. Apparently you're focusing on the wrong part of my argument to the detriment of the rest of it.


Bolded is a false dichotomy and stupid on its face.

birdlaw117 wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:ETA: You're an idiot. You act like adderall changes your entire mindset, which is clearly demonstrated as false if youve ever taken it.

If there is zero impact to your mindset the drug wouldn't be able to do all the things that the pro-addy crowd claims it does. You can't have it both ways brah.


Sorry, I meant changes ones mindset in a negative way.

To be frank, idc, I have a prescription for it and I think, in moderation, its very helpful with or without ADD. Of course, you can abuse it to the point of it turning into a negative thing, but used in low doses is positively helpful in most cases.

So, your post basically says it doesn't change your mindset in a negative way except for the times that it does. Cool.


And your response to his post concedes that there are times it changes it in a positive way.

Playing hide the ball with the professor is lemming-like and just skimming the reading and cramming with the supplements is adequate for my purposes. Addy could help for that purpose. Whoever said earlier that it helps you learn all the monotonous bullshit so you can be creative on the exam and not be wasting time or brain activity trying to remember bullshit said it best.

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Tanicius
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Re: People popping pills

Postby Tanicius » Tue May 01, 2012 10:19 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:ETA: You're an idiot. You act like adderall changes your entire mindset, which is clearly demonstrated as false if youve ever taken it.

If there is zero impact to your mindset the drug wouldn't be able to do all the things that the pro-addy crowd claims it does. You can't have it both ways brah.


Sorry, I meant changes ones mindset in a negative way.

To be frank, idc, I have a prescription for it and I think, in moderation, its very helpful with or without ADD. Of course, you can abuse it to the point of it turning into a negative thing, but used in low doses is positively helpful in most cases.

So, your post basically says it doesn't change your mindset in a negative way except for the times that it does. Cool.



Do you actually contest this happens? If you use any chemicals to help your brain function too regularly or in too high a dose you will develop tolerance and eventually become dependent on it to function normally.

bruss
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Re: People popping pills

Postby bruss » Tue May 01, 2012 10:20 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
bruss wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
bruss wrote:Yeah so much misinformation. Addy is not a drug that will make you so focused that you become obvious to your task. Addy helps you focus on the task at hand, and if that task is to look at multiple solutions it will help you do that. Addy does not make you become so focused that you become ocd.

Focusing on something well necessarily means you aren't focusing on other things. That's the problem. Apparently you're focusing on the wrong part of my argument to the detriment of the rest of it.


You must be trying to be retarded. It helps you focus on what you want to focus on. It does not make you ocd. If you are focusing on the test then you will focus on the test. If the test calls for thinking of different solutions you will be able to think more clear than usual.

By your logic people who use Addy will be driving a car and not stop at red light because they can't focus on ALL parts of driving because they are focusing on making the car go forward.

So you're saying it doesn't help you focus on things? Sounds like a useful drug then.


Where did I say it doesn't help you focus?

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Re: People popping pills

Postby acrossthelake » Tue May 01, 2012 10:23 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:
To be frank, idc, I have a prescription for it and I think, in moderation, its very helpful with or without ADD. Of course, you can abuse it to the point of it turning into a negative thing, but used in low doses is positively helpful in most cases.


Its effects on ppl with ADD versus those w/out it are rather disparate. I think it's a great drug for the ppl who need it for ADD/ADHD. They also don't really tend to risk the same sort of long-term damage since they didn't really have a properly-functioning system to begin with.

bruss wrote:
You must be trying to be retarded. It helps you focus on what you want to focus on. It does not make you ocd. If you are focusing on the test then you will focus on the test. If the test calls for thinking of different solutions you will be able to think more clear than usual.

By your logic people who use Addy will be driving a car and not stop at red light because they can't focus on ALL parts of driving because they are focusing on making the car go forward.


No it doesn't. The amount of executive control you need to drive an automatic car when nothing funky happens (pedestrian darts out in front of you, car swerves into your lane, etc.) is pretty low; it's a large part of what lulls people into talking on their cell phones when they drive (most of the time the attention just isn't necessary, until it is, and then it's too late). There is such a thing as too much executive control and it does impede creativity. You can have too much to the point where it's damaging your creativity, but not so severe that you can't drive a car. You can also have not enough executive control, where you can't focus on doing really anything you want to do. It's part of why Addy is such a great drug for people with ADD/ADHD--they really don't have enough executive control to function properly, Addy closes the gap, and when the dosage is monitored they don't really risk over-doing it since they started so far under in the first place. But if you take someone who isn't disordered, and add it on top, then yeah w/out the proper dosing it's very likely they'll hit the point where they start losing creativity (but not to the point where they're OCD, either, I doubt most ppl go that far), depending of course on where the person's baseline was to start. And, of course, long-term abuse will erode his/her baseline, even if the doses are relatively small.

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Kabuo
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Re: People popping pills

Postby Kabuo » Tue May 01, 2012 10:26 pm

Bunch of doctors in here. There is an overwhelming body of anecdotal evidence that it helps people study. I would not doubt that there is actual scientific evidence on this point, but I'm not checking, and I don't know off-hand because I'm a fucking law student. There is incredible abuse on campuses, especially at better schools. There have been mainstream media articles about this practice. If nothing else, it could be a hell of a placebo for any person who buys into the hype. People who by all appearances have never even taken it speculating about its effectiveness is stupid. If you want any credibility, especially if your arguments don't merit any on their own, approach it from an ethical or legal standpoint.

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Re: People popping pills

Postby acrossthelake » Tue May 01, 2012 10:32 pm

Kabuo wrote:Bunch of doctors in here. There is an overwhelming body of anecdotal evidence that it helps people study. I would not doubt that there is actual scientific evidence on this point, but I'm not checking, and I don't know off-hand because I'm a fucking law student. There is incredible abuse on campuses, especially at better schools. There have been mainstream media articles about this practice. If nothing else, it could be a hell of a placebo for any person who buys into the hype. People who by all appearances have never even taken it speculating about its effectiveness is stupid. If you want any credibility, especially if your arguments don't merit any on their own, approach it from an ethical or legal standpoint.


Or we could've actually studied it and might be too lazy to go pull up actual research articles now. Most are behind paywalls anyway. I have less credibility to talk about law at the moment than I do cognitive processes.

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Ded Precedent
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Re: People popping pills

Postby Ded Precedent » Tue May 01, 2012 10:34 pm

I'm not licensed to give medical advice but I did take a psychology course in college. Feel free to ask me for diagnoses and expert analysis on this subject. I've done some experiments and stuff too.

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Kabuo
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Re: People popping pills

Postby Kabuo » Tue May 01, 2012 10:35 pm

acrossthelake wrote:Or we could've actually studied it and might be too lazy to go pull up actual research articles now. Most are behind paywalls anyway. I have less credibility to talk about law at the moment than I do cognitive processes.


I assume you have finals too, but if you have research that shows that people who use lightly to cram BLL and don't actually take them the day of the exam are shorting themselves, or even not helping themselves at all, I would be very interested in seeing that. Literally every person I have ever met who says they take it for finals means this, and not that they are taking multiple doses at a time, even through the actual exam.

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Re: People popping pills

Postby Mike12188 » Tue May 01, 2012 10:38 pm

Ded Precedent wrote:I'm not licensed to give medical advice but I did take a psychology course in college. Feel free to ask me for diagnoses and expert analysis on this subject. I've done some experiments and stuff too.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: People popping pills

Postby acrossthelake » Tue May 01, 2012 10:41 pm

Kabuo wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:Or we could've actually studied it and might be too lazy to go pull up actual research articles now. Most are behind paywalls anyway. I have less credibility to talk about law at the moment than I do cognitive processes.


I assume you have finals too, but if you have research that shows that people who use lightly to cram BLL and don't actually take them the day of the exam are shorting themselves, or even not helping themselves at all, I would be very interested in seeing that. Literally every person I have ever met who says they take it for finals means this, and not that they are taking multiple doses at a time, even through the actual exam.


Regarding the bolded, oh, no, that was never my claim, there's definitely no evidence to back that up. I very much doubt light doses once in a while have any sort of long-term impact.

In regards to "not helping themselves at all", my claim has generally been that learning the material isn't that hard, so if you're generally on top of it all semester I don't see the point. I've always conceded that if you've procrastinated enough to have to cram then that makes sense. I just don't think law school itself throws soooo much at you that omg you need it to do well; though if you aren't on top of things, I see how it can help during crunch time.


Ded Precedent wrote:I'm not licensed to give medical advice but I did take a psychology course in college. Feel free to ask me for diagnoses and expert analysis on this subject. I've done some experiments and stuff too.

:roll: The general process in which the brain gets used to a drug isn't really a novel or difficult or controversial subject that one needs an M.D. to know about. Nobody in this thread has offered diagnoses. I was commenting on how attention works according to the current major theories of attention, and my argument all thread has been that I don't think law school is hard enough to justify taking it because BLL is pretty easy to learn.

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sundance95
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Re: People popping pills

Postby sundance95 » Tue May 01, 2012 10:42 pm

This thread got shitty.

bruss
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Re: People popping pills

Postby bruss » Tue May 01, 2012 10:45 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
To be frank, idc, I have a prescription for it and I think, in moderation, its very helpful with or without ADD. Of course, you can abuse it to the point of it turning into a negative thing, but used in low doses is positively helpful in most cases.


Its effects on ppl with ADD versus those w/out it are rather disparate. I think it's a great drug for the ppl who need it for ADD/ADHD. They also don't really tend to risk the same sort of long-term damage since they didn't really have a properly-functioning system to begin with.

bruss wrote:
You must be trying to be retarded. It helps you focus on what you want to focus on. It does not make you ocd. If you are focusing on the test then you will focus on the test. If the test calls for thinking of different solutions you will be able to think more clear than usual.

By your logic people who use Addy will be driving a car and not stop at red light because they can't focus on ALL parts of driving because they are focusing on making the car go forward.


No it doesn't. The amount of executive control you need to drive an automatic car when nothing funky happens (pedestrian darts out in front of you, car swerves into your lane, etc.) is pretty low; it's a large part of what lulls people into talking on their cell phones when they drive (most of the time the attention just isn't necessary, until it is, and then it's too late). There is such a thing as too much executive control and it does impede creativity. You can have too much to the point where it's damaging your creativity, but not so severe that you can't drive a car. You can also have not enough executive control, where you can't focus on doing really anything you want to do. It's part of why Addy is such a great drug for people with ADD/ADHD--they really don't have enough executive control to function properly, Addy closes the gap, and when the dosage is monitored they don't really risk over-doing it since they started so far under in the first place. But if you take someone who isn't disordered, and add it on top, then yeah w/out the proper dosing it's very likely they'll hit the point where they start losing creativity (but not to the point where they're OCD, either, I doubt most ppl go that far), depending of course on where the person's baseline was to start. And, of course, long-term abuse will erode his/her baseline, even if the doses are relatively small.


"There is such a thing as too much executive control and it does impede creativity."

This statement is the problem. People on this site believe that Addy causes what you call loss of executive control. In fact Addy allows more executive control.

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Kabuo
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Re: People popping pills

Postby Kabuo » Tue May 01, 2012 10:46 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
Regarding the bolded, oh, no, that was never my claim, there's definitely no evidence to back that up. I very much doubt light doses once in a while have any sort of long-term impact.

In regards to "not helping themselves at all", my claim has generally been that learning the material isn't that hard, so if you're generally on top of it all semester I don't see the point. I've always conceded that if you've procrastinated enough to have to cram then that makes sense. I just don't think law school itself throws soooo much at you that omg you need it to do well; though if you aren't on top of things, I see how it can help during crunch time.


I can agree with this. As for the rest of the thread:

Image
Last edited by Kabuo on Tue May 01, 2012 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

acrossthelake
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Re: People popping pills

Postby acrossthelake » Tue May 01, 2012 10:46 pm

bruss wrote:
"There is such a thing as too much executive control and it does impede creativity."

This statement is the problem. People on this site believe that Addy causes what you call loss of executive control. In fact Addy allows more executive control.


No, I don't. I know it causes more executive control. In general it's a good thing, but there is a point at which it impedes creativity.

--LinkRemoved--

Code: Select all

People have long speculated that some forms of mental illness may impart certain cognitive benefits, such as insight, inventiveness and creativity (Schuldberg, 2001). Certain mental disorders, such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, may be linked to higher than normal creative ability (Russ, 2001). Similarly, the present study suggests that ADHD in adults may be associated
with better performance on certain types of creativity tasks, specifically, those that involve divergent thinking. On the other hand, convergent thinking may be hindered by the presence of
ADHD, an effect that may be attributed to ADHD-related deficits in inhibitory control. Given that adults with ADHD may have above-average divergent thinking ability, what are the
implications for creative achievement outside of the laboratory? Studies of adults without ADHD suggest that divergent thinking ability is positively correlated with creative achievement in ‘‘real life’’
(Guilford, 1957; Torrance, 1988). Similarly, Carson et al. (2003) found that highly creative individuals (i.e., individuals with high creative achievement outside of the laboratory) have lower levels of
executive inhibitory control and perform better on tasks of divergent thinking, relative to individuals with less creative achievement. Likewise, individuals with ADHD may show higher levels of creativity in real-life contexts (Weiss, 1997).


Though I also doubt that you need very much creativity on a law exam, so I don't think (and here is where I start speculating) Adderrall would necessarily impede you either.

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Ded Precedent
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Re: People popping pills

Postby Ded Precedent » Tue May 01, 2012 10:50 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
Ded Precedent wrote:I'm not licensed to give medical advice but I did take a psychology course in college. Feel free to ask me for diagnoses and expert analysis on this subject. I've done some experiments and stuff too.

:roll: The general process in which the brain gets used to a drug isn't really a novel or difficult or controversial subject that one needs an M.D. to know about. Nobody in this thread has offered diagnoses. I was commenting on how attention works according to the current major theories of attention, and my argument all thread has been that I don't think law school is hard enough to justify taking it because BLL is pretty easy to learn.

I haven't read any of this thread. I just popped in to try to be funny. Carry on.

nomnomaments
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Re: People popping pills

Postby nomnomaments » Tue May 01, 2012 10:55 pm

sundance95 wrote:This thread got shitty.


Image

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sundance95
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Re: People popping pills

Postby sundance95 » Tue May 01, 2012 10:58 pm

nomnomaments wrote:
sundance95 wrote:This thread got shitty.


Image

Oh man I dunno what out is about that pic but that just killed me. TYFT.




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