Please please actually happen

Amen. I know optimism isn't encouraged here but anything close to those numbers + a recovering economy (which would mean more lawyers from the boomers retiring) could leave us all gainfully employed in the law profession!

Well, if there really are 26,000 job openings every year 34,000 still ain't gonna cut it, not by a long shot.

It's still a LOT better though. That's around 76 percent.

That's interesting but not surprising. Generally, T3 and T4 schools are bar prep schools- teaching you to pass the bar for three years. Why this costs 40 or 50K per year when Barbri can do it in three months for $3.5K is another question. They also fail out a significant number of students which probably helps the rate. I did notice that schools like Ave Maria, FAMU, Barry were dead last though.



It's interesting because when push comes to shove, tenured faculty are not different from any other power group in American society, meaning they will sacrifice anything before their standard of living is affected. This is despite all their BS rhetoric and their supposed love of their institutions and blah blah. They will push as much of the costs as they can on students. Then, if that reaches a tipping point as it has done over the last few years and they are unable to push any more onto students, they will push it on to lower paid administrative employees. They will do so much to prevent themselves from hurting that it would take the complete dissolution of the law school for them to start feeling it, and then I bet those consequences would be concentrated among younger faculty. This is like Dewey which is imploding as we speak, but where the same partners who plunged the firm into despair will emerge relatively unscathed, with increasing levels of pain being felt by non-equity partners, then seniors, midlevels, juniors, 3Ls, SAs, and staff. The same thing happened with Howrey. If anyone doubts that law school is just a business and professors and deans are the owners, you have only to look at what will happen over the next few months.

I am sad for the people who lost their jobs. I think there is still a long way to go and many more need to lose their jobs before this system gets back into equilibrium because the amount of administrative bloat at some law schools is staggering. However, I would like to see one of these faculties take a haircut before they have to fire some 9-5 Joe.

The reduction in class size won't really change Hastings LSAT/GPA numbers. If they kept the same class size they were looking at a significant drop in numbers. Cutting the class size saved them of the embarrassment. The prospective pool of candidates this year was extremely lacking (Which is why Hastings isn't the only school to reduce in size.)

If Hastings is going to reduce class size 20% they also need to cut costs. You can't fire tenured faculty without cause. There are basically two ways to cut tenured faculty. Wait until they retire or offer them lucrative "early-retirement" packages. This makes firing at will employees much easier than dealing with tenured teachers.

Hastings, like other bureaucracies, have vested interests. Each interest strongly believes in their cause. It's not just about people not wanting to lose their job. It's because they truly believe in... well, name a subject (equality, safety, career services, etc...)

This makes people DAMN mad. Should it be surprising LEOP people are mad they lost 1/3rd of their staff. No. Is it because they just want to stay on the payroll? Again, no. They believe in what they are doing.

The tone of this entire blog is rather troubling ("Law School Scam" should give away it's agenda.) Hastings is a rational actor acting within a competitive market. The way this blog tries to portray Hastings is rather disingenuous.

It's the last part of that statement that is troubling. If law schools want to start being treated like rational actors in a competitive market, then they are going to have to give up a lot of the federal subsidies that allow them to charge inflated tuition, as well as start being accountable to courts in actions for fraud and misrepresenting employment statistics. Maybe they should also pay taxes.

I fail to understand why people think it is so strange that academics, (and law academics) should be held to a higher standard than a for-profit corporation.

I can't think of a single ABA-Accredited law school in existence (with the exception of Phoenix Online.) Universities and professional schools don't just grow up overnight. It takes decades to establish a sustainable school. Having for-profit law schools is even more difficult because, all else equal, they would have to have higher tuition to maintain profitability (meaning they will leave the market.)

Assuming they somehow did exist, yes, you're right. It's just a historical norm that creates a societal expectation that education should be non-profit or public. If public/non-profit institutions had to pay the real cost of education they would either go out of existence or be no different than for-profit Universities.

Most people argue for public education because it's a positive externality on society. That's debatable and not worth derailing the thread.

Note: This has nothing to do with Hastings reducing its class size. But it is a nice break from studying.

Edit: I just noticed you said they shouldn't charge "inflated" tuition. If they are a rational actor then they are not paying "inflated" tuition. If they are a non-profit then they have no incentive to charged "inflated" tuition. There is no profit motive and they couldn't if they wanted to because of a competitive market. If they became for-profit they would actually have to increase the cost of tuition because no subsidy would exist. The argument doesn't make any sense.

I think it's a good thing for Hastings to reduce class size. But the negativity is happening because if this is the way law schools are gonna handle a collapse in demand (and the system probably dictates that most of them will handle it exactly like this) it seems like they are just trying to handle it like 'business as usual' with smaller class sizes and less staff.

What people like Campos is hoping for is a real, fundamental overthrow of the current system--one where law school tuition isn't massively overpriced, where schools don't have perverse incentives to over-hire and overpay faculty, and law school students aren't allowed to treat their loans like monopoly money.

TITCR

(Did I get that right?)

They are charging inflated tuition because there is a bubble brought on by guaranteed federal student loans that are not dischargeable in bankruptcy as well as information asymmetry, misleading employment stats, and general cognitive bias among students. I'm not really sure what the rest of your post is saying- you seem to have misread my post. I am talking about the general hypocrisy of law schools wanting to be treated on the one hand like noble institutions performing a valuable public service and on the other behaving like for profit partnerships who want to squeeze as much money as possible out of students and distribute it to the "partners" (the deans and tenured professors).

This is also one of the points of Campos' blog and of the scambloggers who started the whole movement. It might not be as nuanced and polished as you might like, but that's also part of the charm. I'm sure the deans of TTT law schools making 500K per year when none of their students can find jobs seem very respectable in person. But their actions belie their true nature.

Keep fighting the good fight.

I'm at Loyola. When I heard the news about Hastings I sent a pointed email to admissions asking them if they are planning something similar. They said no. I was told privately by a trusted source that our application numbers were actually holding up relatively well.

With the California budget the way it is, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the first step towards total dissolution of Hastings.

Doubtful. Hastings is unique in that it is independent of the Regents of the University of California.

Yea I think Loyola should definitely do something similar. If not because of rankings, because of job placement.

Don't think it will happen, unfortunately. Loyola is now the largest law school in California by a pretty good margin.

It's a damn shame. They're doing their students a huge disservice.

Why does that matter? All the legislature needs to do is stop allocating funds...

I think that's even worse for Hastings. If they can't count on the Regents for support they are going to feel a decrease in student body much more. I doubt they will close for good though. That's unthinkable right now.

It's the Regent's budget that is completely and utterly fucked every year. While its tough for all public institutions in California right now, not being part of that system is generally to Hastings' advantage.

There is also a massive cash bomb that would hit the state if they fuck with Hastings' funding below a certain point.

lol wut

I know, right? What century are we living in again?

It's a sign of weakness any way you slice it. 20% revenue is gone and costs are probably going up.

CR. Also, some schools need to cut their class size by 100%.

Thanks for tallying this.

It is at least conceivable that the attrition rates might also increase a little if at least a significant portion of law students are becoming informed about how poor their job prospect are if they aren't in the top X of their class. Probably wishful thinking but there is a large percentage who should be dropping out after 1L year who are not behaving rationally.

I think we'll see some school closures soon, for the simple reason that tenure track/tenured faculty are hard to fire unless you shutter the whole department and it is doubtful that all of the present schools will be able to preserve their current faculty. A law school isn't the kind of department that can justify itself to the rest of a university unless it is in the black.