UCH trims class size 20%, cuts 20 staff + raises tuition 15% Forum

[RedBirds2011]

I find it interesting that when I tell my Med school or Dental school friends that there are about 190 students in the class of 2014 at my school they usually say something along the lines of "holy shit, that's a lot." It's a shame how over saturated the legal profession is. Many law schools have class sizes that are simply too large. Hell, a lot of the lower end schools shouldn't even exist. We should take some lessons from those other professions. When I tell them that some schools have incoming class sizes of 400+, they are shocked.

Just think of all that would be accomplished if they just required all schools to halve their class sizes. That one move alone would move us close to med school numbers.

[kapital98]

P.S. The more I think about how terrible those employment numbers are the more depressed I become.

The legal place will eventually get better and jobs will exist for all.

And if you understood "lags" and competitive markets you would see the two are not contradictory. Read my post that you linked to.

Also, you didn't even link to where I explain demand and supply factors. You linked to where I provided a simplification of my explanation because people couldn't understand the simple economics jargon I was using (aka, theory.)

Just to clarify [back to econ speak]: That means it will go back to the NAIRU for lawyers. (NOT 0% unemployment)

[lowereastside]

From Leiter's Law School Reports:

Evan Lee, a longtime professor of law at Hastings and the Associate Dean for Research, writes:

I understand that our class size cut looks completely U.S. News driven, but in fact it’s not. Since the late 1990s, Hastings developed an unusual seriousness about pedagogy that I think was largely a reaction to the pointless cruelty of some 65-Club members in the ‘60s and ‘70s. Nobody here thought we could really do a first-rate job of teaching 425 students per class. In particular, we have one faculty member who had two kids graduate from Hastings and he was really bitter about the lack of attention they got here. Just about everyone on the faculty felt guilty about the situation.

The second big driver was the fact that our graduates were having to wait so long to get jobs. This does play back into U.S. News, of course, but we were getting a huge volume of complaints from students and grads. So some of it was just squeaky wheel politics.

The third big driver was that an outside management consulting firm told us we were very fat on the fiscal operations side, personnel-wise. We needed to consolidate a lot of positions in that part of the operation, and this gave us an opportunity to reduce revenues somewhat.

And, of course, U.S. News was a driver. You and others have proved that it has a small-school bias. But our internal calculations actually show only a modest ceteris paribus increase – maybe 6 to 8 overall ranking slots over 3 years. There were much cheaper ways of increasing our rankings

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... nking.html

[I.P. Daly]

Several schools in the Midwest are reducing class sizes. Citing a concern about job placement statistics, one of the schools in Ohio is cutting enrollment by about 30%.

However, Cooley noted that its "Tampa Bay Campus enrollment exceeded our expectations. These numbers indicate the Tampa Bay area was ready for a law school. We are pleased to open our doors with such enthusiasm from the community and the students who have selected Cooley." http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

[minnbills]

However, Cooley noted that its "Tampa Bay Campus enrollment exceeded our expectations. These numbers indicate the Tampa Bay area was ready for a law school. We are pleased to open our doors with such enthusiasm from the community and the students who have selected Cooley." http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

One day people will talk about Cooley like its the AIG or Lehman Brothers of this whole thing

[timbs4339]

Bumping due to release of this document:

--LinkRemoved--

It looks like Hastings is going to make up their "revenue" shortfall through a combination of staff layoffs and tuition increases on current students. However they are still planning on running a profit. Tuition and fees are going to increase 15% next year and 5% in subsequent years. If I was a current Hastings student (and thus not getting the benefit of the reduction in class size) I would be ripshit.

[sunynp]

Bumping due to release of this document:

--LinkRemoved--

It looks like Hastings is going to make up their "revenue" shortfall through a combination of staff layoffs and tuition increases on current students. However they are still planning on running a profit. Tuition and fees are going to increase 15% next year and 5% in subsequent years. If I was a current Hastings student (and thus not getting the benefit of the reduction in class size) I would be ripshit.

I agree, a 15% increase is insane when the demand for your product is decreasing. Add another 5% on top of that for your third year. There is no way that Hastings justifies its cost, which is why the number of applicants has dropped.

I thought they were doing a good thing by decreasing class size. I didn't dream of them trying to make up the lost income off the backs of the student loans of the 1st year class and the incoming classes.

[kapital98]

Bumping due to release of this document:

--LinkRemoved--

It looks like Hastings is going to make up their "revenue" shortfall through a combination of staff layoffs and tuition increases on current students. However they are still planning on running a profit. Tuition and fees are going to increase 15% next year and 5% in subsequent years. If I was a current Hastings student (and thus not getting the benefit of the reduction in class size) I would be ripshit.

Look at p.21. Tuition is expected to increase by 150% between 07'-17'.

[sunynp]

Bumping due to release of this document:

--LinkRemoved--

It looks like Hastings is going to make up their "revenue" shortfall through a combination of staff layoffs and tuition increases on current students. However they are still planning on running a profit. Tuition and fees are going to increase 15% next year and 5% in subsequent years. If I was a current Hastings student (and thus not getting the benefit of the reduction in class size) I would be ripshit.

Look at p.21. Tuition is expected to increase by 150% between 07'-17'.

I looked quickly but I didn't see anything about the number of students who will get jobs on graduation. Did they do any analysis of the employment market? It would be helpful for people looking at the market in SF and California. Did anyone find that info?

The only mention about employment I saw was that they had been getting complaints from students not getting jobs.

I also didn't see anything about their plans to improve placement from the school and how much that would cost.

[timbs4339]

Bumping due to release of this document:

--LinkRemoved--

It looks like Hastings is going to make up their "revenue" shortfall through a combination of staff layoffs and tuition increases on current students. However they are still planning on running a profit. Tuition and fees are going to increase 15% next year and 5% in subsequent years. If I was a current Hastings student (and thus not getting the benefit of the reduction in class size) I would be ripshit.

I agree, a 15% increase is insane when the demand for your product is decreasing. Add another 5% on top of that for your third year. There is no way that Hastings justifies its cost, which is why the number of applicants has dropped.

I thought they were doing a good thing by decreasing class size. I didn't dream of them trying to make up the lost income off the backs of the student loans of the 1st year class and the incoming classes.

What, you actually thought the tenured faculty were going to take a pay/benefit cut or agree to teach more classes?

[timbs4339]

Bumping due to release of this document:

--LinkRemoved--

It looks like Hastings is going to make up their "revenue" shortfall through a combination of staff layoffs and tuition increases on current students. However they are still planning on running a profit. Tuition and fees are going to increase 15% next year and 5% in subsequent years. If I was a current Hastings student (and thus not getting the benefit of the reduction in class size) I would be ripshit.

Look at p.21. Tuition is expected to increase by 150% between 07'-17'.

Instate tuition was 10K in 2002-03 and 13K in 03-04. Eminently reasonable.

[hung jury]

This is madness. A 15% single year hike for a school placing less than half of its class in real legal jobs:

--LinkRemoved--

Hastings basically does not place out of California and the California market is incredibly saturated.

[ahnhub]

Those considering Hastings now should just go to another school. It galls me to think a school can do this kind of thing and expect to get away with it. The only justice would be for currently deposited students to start withdrawing en masse and Hastings to be left with no class of 2015.

[071816]

Bumping due to release of this document:

--LinkRemoved--

It looks like Hastings is going to make up their "revenue" shortfall through a combination of staff layoffs and tuition increases on current students. However they are still planning on running a profit. Tuition and fees are going to increase 15% next year and 5% in subsequent years. If I was a current Hastings student (and thus not getting the benefit of the reduction in class size) I would be ripshit.

These law schools have one hell of a racket going. What a fucking joke.

[hiima3L]

Hastings c/o 2012 grad here.

I'm doing everything I can to convince people not to go to school here. This is just unbelievable and I had no idea about it. Thanks for posting.

[SaintsTheMetal]

JFC... 15% in a year and another 5% puts IN STATE tuition near 50k.

Superpower UCH is about to be one of the most expensive law schools in the country

[sunynp]

the title of this thread should be

Hastings raises trims class size by 20%, cuts 20 staff: raises tuition 15%

[kapital98]

JFC... 15% in a year and another 5% puts IN STATE tuition near 50k.

Superpower UCH is about to be one of the most expensive law schools in the country

[Borhas]

This is madness. A 15% single year hike for a school placing less than half of its class in real legal jobs:

--LinkRemoved--

Hastings basically does not place out of California and the California market is incredibly saturated.

sigh

obviously not worth it

[timbs4339]

Edited thread title.

Just want to say I feel for you guys. Rising 2Ls especially but rising 3Ls too. It sucks they are trying to balance their budget on the backs of people already paying out the ass.

[hung jury]

This is madness. A 15% single year hike for a school placing less than half of its class in real legal jobs:

--LinkRemoved--

Hastings basically does not place out of California and the California market is incredibly saturated.

sigh

obviously not worth it

Hope it was clear it wasn't a shot at the students. Hiking tuition 15% after you have a (larger) student body on the hook is just a real shitty move; at least grandfather in the larger part of the tuition hike for the rising 2Ls and 3Ls.

[Mick Haller]

The school may not survive, and if it does, it's likely to be a long slow, inglorious descent into ignominy. They should do the noble thing and just close it down. It has been a well regarded institution for a long time. Rest on your laurels and blame the legislature.

Of course that won't happen, because Wu & Crew need them $250k jerbs.

[Borhas]

www.top-law-schools.com.org