0L starting in may, order of books to read?

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MTBike
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby MTBike » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:17 pm

spleenworship wrote:Here is what I recommend:

1) read GTM
2) get laid
3) get drunk
4) get some good food
5) catch some ZZZZZZZZZZZs
6) go to law school
7) consider /self
8 ) take finals
9) seriously consider /self
10) realize law school is idiotic
11) get bored and annoyed with LS
12) graduate
13) take bar
14) ?????

Jesus christ... we cant have a normal thread without the typical TLS "hate on LS" bullshit can we?

Most of your post is correct though... relax before LS

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Ludo!
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby Ludo! » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:17 pm

Yes there's only one E&E per subject. Here's torts:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Law-Torts-Exa ... 0735511918

There may be different editions though. Although for most of your 1l subjects the difference in editions probably doesn't matter (the only significant change in the last decade for any 1l subject I can think of is CivPro)

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spleenworship
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:47 pm

MTBike wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Here is what I recommend:

1) read GTM
2) get laid
3) get drunk
4) get some good food
5) catch some ZZZZZZZZZZZs
6) go to law school
7) consider /self
8 ) take finals
9) seriously consider /self
10) realize law school is idiotic
11) get bored and annoyed with LS
12) graduate
13) take bar
14) ?????

Jesus christ... we cant have a normal thread without the typical TLS "hate on LS" bullshit can we?

Most of your post is correct though... relax before LS


Sorry, but most people I know, especially now as finals loom, pretty much feel this way. Law school largely blows, is largely irrelevant to the practice of law, and is annoying, boring, and too long.

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Cupidity
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby Cupidity » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:53 pm

Unlearning information is much harder than learning it.

Go ahead and read up on the rules of civil procedure if you want, but as for Torts, Contracts, ConLaw, and Property, the key to good grades in those classes is understanding your professor and giving them what they want. A perfect response based on an E&E might be worth a B or B+ if your professor doesn't value the same things as the author.

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bk1
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:04 pm

FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:To be clear, is there only 1 recommended E&E per 1L course? For example, is there one E&E list for the torts, civpro, crim, con law, etc?

Or should someone buying E&Es buy particular ones according to their professors? I guess I would just like a current student to point me in the right direction as to what particular copies to buy. A link to an actual E&E on Amazon would be much appreciated. TIA


There is only 1 E&E per course (there are multiple editions though), but there are multiple supplements for any given course. The E&E isn't always the best supplement.

Look up Examples & Explanations on Amazon yourself. Which supplement you should buy depends on the course and your prof.

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YYZ
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby YYZ » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:24 pm

The only reason I recommend buying supplements this summer is to save money. There will be several used copies for sale with relatively few buyers. But, once the school year starts, more and more students will want to buy the supplements and the supply of used books will go down on Half.com and Amazon.

I didn't read any supplements or cases during my 0L summer, and I'm glad I didn't. It would have been a total waste of time.

At most, buy one supplement per course. Mostly, because you won't have time to read many of them given your huge 1L course load and legal writing requirements. The best thing to consider is not buying any this summer and asking your prof if they recommend any supplements for their course. If you must buy supplements now, I recommend E&Es -- they are great.

Reading Getting to Maybe as well as other books on "how to do law school" (e.g. outlining, taking notes in class, etc) is a good idea.

I did LEEWS, and it was a waste of time. Don't spend $150+ on that program. If you can get it free and really want to do it, that's fine. Believe me, each of your profs will tell you how they want you to answer the essay questions on their final. In fact, several may give you examples of past exams as well as a "model response."

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paulshortys10
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby paulshortys10 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:30 pm

YYZ wrote:The only reason I recommend buying supplements this summer is to save money. There will be several used copies for sale with relatively few buyers. But, once the school year starts, more and more students will want to buy the supplements and the supply of used books will go down on Half.com and Amazon.

I didn't read any supplements or cases during my 0L summer, and I'm glad I didn't. It would have been a total waste of time.

At most, buy one supplement per course. Mostly, because you won't have time to read many of them given your huge 1L course load and legal writing requirements. The best thing to consider is not buying any this summer and asking your prof if they recommend any supplements for their course. If you must buy supplements now, I recommend E&Es -- they are great.

Reading Getting to Maybe as well as other books on "how to do law school" (e.g. outlining, taking notes in class, etc) is a good idea.

I did LEEWS, and it was a waste of time. Don't spend $150+ on that program. If you can get it free and really want to do it, that's fine. Believe me, each of your profs will tell you how they want you to answer the essay questions on their final. In fact, several may give you examples of past exams as well as a "model response."



I was actually thinking of buying them now. Not to read them, but because they're dirt cheap used on Amazon.

What are the latest editions for the EnE's used in 1l classes? Also, which of the older editions are appropriate to use, at least for the next year?

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ben4847
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby ben4847 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:32 pm

Read 1L. You need to be able to understand what your classmates will be trying to do to you.

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dood
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby dood » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:33 pm

spleenworship wrote:Here is what I recommend:

1) read GTM
2) get laid
3) get drunk
4) get some good food
5) catch some ZZZZZZZZZZZs
6) go to law school
7) consider /self
8 ) take finals
9) seriously consider /self
10) realize law school is idiotic
11) get bored and annoyed with LS
12) graduate
13) take bar
14) ?????


i fixed that for you

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1800calturk
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby 1800calturk » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:57 pm

There are worse things out there. Law school is fine.

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spleenworship
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby spleenworship » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:31 pm

1800calturk wrote:There are worse things out there. Law school is fine.


Well, when you compare it to genocide or a night in bed with Santorum.... sure.


But just because some things suck worse than other things, doesn't mean the first doesn't suck. I.e. I chop off a finger with a knife. This sucks. I chop off a hand with a chainsaw. This sucks worse. But I still would complain my ass off if I cut off my finger.

kaiser
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby kaiser » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:35 pm

Substantive prep hurts more than it helps. Read Getting to Maybe if it makes you feel happy (though you will have to go through it again during the semester for it all to actually make sense), and maybe read Planet Law School or Law School Confidential to get an overall idea of what law school is like and what the proper lingo is. But take those supplements and put em' on a shelf until classes start. You will understand why once the semester actually begins. Totally fine to buy some cheap supplements over the summer (though I'd still wait until school starts to find out which ones your professor recommends), but reading them is not a good idea.

smittytron3k
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby smittytron3k » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:55 pm

Read GTM. Also I found that this book is useful to familiarize you some of the policy arguments that recur over and over again in 1L classes. I wouldn't read anything else.

kaiser
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby kaiser » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:03 pm

Here is a good list of things to do over 0L summer:

1. Spruce up your resume. Get it formatted well so you don't have to waste time doing this when you begin applying. Also make some cover letter templates so you don't have to start creating one from scratch. If you want to apply for any large firm jobs or federal judicial internships over 1L summer, you need to apply around December 1. But you will be so bogged down with your memos, studying for finals, etc. that you will be so happy that you have your resume and cover letters relatively set and ready to go. Just getting down a solid template could save you invaluable time

2. Improving typing speed. Its definitely something that will come in handy on a no-word-limit exam where you are button mashing for 3-4 hours

3. Learn about law school exams. I think Getting to Maybe, and LEEWS-style books and programs are very useful since you will go in with your eyes on the bigger picture. The entire class is only buildup to that one exam, so think of everything through that filter. Always think to yourself "how will this apply in an exam situation?"

4. Network with alums of your school. Perhaps some people will disagree with me, but I found this very helpful. I just sent out some emails over the summer to young alums of my school just to chat with them about their experiences. Most were happy to speak with me about the classes they loved, what they do at their firms, etc. Plus, it allows you to make some connections, and you never know when one of these contacts may put in a good word for you in the future. Its never too early to build up some contacts, since who you know is so very important

5. Take some time to reflect and clear your mind. Ask yourself why you are going to law school, and what you plan to get out of the experience. Try and formulate goals for yourself so you aren't just flying blind. Once you can actually articulate your goals, motivations, and expectations, it is that much easier to hit the ground running

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chem
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby chem » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:05 pm

beardown_tho wrote:read Game of Thrones

don't think about law


Overrated. Read the Farseer Trilogy. Next big thing

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MTBike
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby MTBike » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:08 pm

kaiser wrote:Here is a good list of things to do over 0L summer:

1. Spruce up your resume. Get it formatted well so you don't have to waste time doing this when you begin applying. Also make some cover letter templates so you don't have to start creating one from scratch. If you want to apply for any large firm jobs or federal judicial internships over 1L summer, you need to apply around December 1. But you will be so bogged down with your memos, studying for finals, etc. that you will be so happy that you have your resume and cover letters relatively set and ready to go. Just getting down a solid template could save you invaluable time

2. Improving typing speed. Its definitely something that will come in handy on a no-word-limit exam where you are button mashing for 3-4 hours

3. Learn about law school exams. I think Getting to Maybe, and LEEWS-style books and programs are very useful since you will go in with your eyes on the bigger picture. The entire class is only buildup to that one exam, so think of everything through that filter. Always think to yourself "how will this apply in an exam situation?"

4. Network with alums of your school. Perhaps some people will disagree with me, but I found this very helpful. I just sent out some emails over the summer to young alums of my school just to chat with them about their experiences. Most were happy to speak with me about the classes they loved, what they do at their firms, etc. Plus, it allows you to make some connections, and you never know when one of these contacts may put in a good word for you in the future. Its never too early to build up some contacts, since who you know is so very important

5. Take some time to reflect and clear your mind. Ask yourself why you are going to law school, and what you plan to get out of the experience. Try and formulate goals for yourself so you aren't just flying blind. Once you can actually articulate your goals, motivations, and expectations, it is that much easier to hit the ground running


There needs to be more TLS'ers like you... that is, actually giving good advice. Not just telling people to retake and ED to UVA or somewhere with ties.

beardown_tho
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby beardown_tho » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:23 pm

chem wrote:
beardown_tho wrote:read Game of Thrones

don't think about law


Overrated. Read the Farseer Trilogy. Next big thing


your face is overrated

edit: that was offensive, i apologize. i intended only to criticize your criticism of "a song of ice and fire"

Seminole_305
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby Seminole_305 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:18 pm

If you want to read something for school I suggest Writing Essay Exams to Succeed in Law School by Dernback and Eight Secrets of Top Exam Performance In Law School by Charles Whitebread.

- Reading these will not make you have As but they will help you be in the position to be in the top 3rd of your class.
- If you can write well, remember black letter law and add policy to your exam answers you have a strong chance at the top 15% or better.

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paulshortys10
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby paulshortys10 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:33 pm

Seminole_305 wrote:If you want to read something for school I suggest Writing Essay Exams to Succeed in Law School by Dernback and Eight Secrets of Top Exam Performance In Law School by Charles Whitebread.

- Reading these will not make you have As but they will help you be in the position to be in the top 3rd of your class.
- If you can write well, remember black letter law and add policy to your exam answers you have a strong chance at the top 15% or better.


Yep this is exactly what I'm doing. Trying to improve my overall writing, then tailoring that skill to the law school exam.

shock259
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby shock259 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:49 pm

sundance95 wrote:Reading supplements will hurt, not help you. Why? Supplements are exactly that: supplements to the primary readings of a course. Your professor may not cover some topics, or may use different vocabulary to reference the concepts, or may take a totally different approach than the supplement. It's much harder to unlearn something than to learn it for the first time, so these differences could hurt you. I've only read around 20% of any supplement I own, because I selectively read them for topics we've covered where the supp agrees with my professors' approaches.

You should stay clear of even the CivPro E&E (the gold standard of supplements) because even the latest edition is out of date with respect to certain topics. The only possible exception I could think of would be to read a little about present and future interests in property to get some familiarity, since that is a very static area of law and is pretty confusing at first, but its not necessary and your time will be much, much better spent chilling out, drinking, and having BBQs.

Hear us now and believe us later: you can't brute force law school, so just chillax. Seriously.


I'm going to disagree with some of this. I found the E&E's to be helpful for introducing tough topics and laying some groundwork. Should you take notes on the E&E? Make an outline of it? Of course not. But giving them a once through before law school is just going to give you some background on the subjects. When you arrive at them later, you'll have some familiarity with what is going on.

Adjust according to your professor.

Maybe you guys have godly reading comprehension or memory or something, but after reading 6 E&Es + other stuff over the course of a few months, I could barely remember what the big topics were for each course. But when I saw it in a case, most of it came back to me. And when I reread the E&E, it became even clearer.

It was also helpful for outlining earlier in the semester because I could take a look at the syllabus and get a sense of what topics we were going to cover and with what detail. Always good to have the "big picture" stuff in mind.

While I also agree that you can't entirely brute force law school, you can seriously give yourself a leg up by studying the shit out of your classes, learning how to write an exam, and getting in your professor's head. I haven't discovered how much studying is actually necessary to get good grades. I know overstudied the hell out of first semester, but I also did very well. I'd rather do that than the opposite and take a gamble.

/breeding gunners

FlanSolo
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby FlanSolo » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:09 pm

As somebody who considered doing some of this stuff, let me just say it would have been a total waste of time. Getting to Maybe is helpful if that nitpicking mindset doesn't come naturally to you, but don't stress about internalizing everything. What other people have said about it is correct: argue both sides, always (unless you have a professor that specifically tells you not to do this, in which case, don't). I'll say that I did LEEWS and thought it was marginally helpful - I use some modified version of that system on exams. It helps, not because it's the gospel, but because it's good to have a system you are comfortable with using.

Beyond that, I wouldn't do anything. I got Delaney's, read about 4 pages, and realized it was a total waste of time. Reading the E&E's may not be totally useless, but it's usefulness is marginal at best. I guarantee you'll regret having spent a large chunk of your summer reading them, especially because you will forget most of what you learn in law school within a couple of weeks, and spend much of your time preparing for exams relearning the material by taking practice exams. By the time you're prepping for exams, what you read over the summer in the E&E will not have mattered at all. And also, don't do it for the reasons everyone else has already said - professors are idiosyncratic, and you don't know what you're going to cover. Seriously, enjoy your summer. If you feel like you're going to feel stressed out by not doing anything, because there's so much out of your control -- good. Get used to it!

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DaftAndDirect
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby DaftAndDirect » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:14 pm

beardown_tho wrote:
chem wrote:
beardown_tho wrote:read Game of Thrones

don't think about law


Overrated. Read the Farseer Trilogy. Next big thing


your face is overrated

edit: that was offensive, i apologize. i intended only to criticize your criticism of "a song of ice and fire"


Just watch the HBO series. If you don't like it, just mute it and fap instead.

NYC2014
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby NYC2014 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:24 pm

You're not going to remember shit by the time exams roll around. I read straight through an E&E at the beginning of the semester and didn't remember a single word by the time finals rolled around.

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shepdawg
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby shepdawg » Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:06 pm

"Law School in a Nut Shell" is great.

target
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Re: 0L starting in may, order of books to read?

Postby target » Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:13 pm

beardown_tho wrote:read Game of Thrones



If you still have time, read the hunger game trilogy.




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