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BarBri or Themis?
Barbri 51%  51%  [ 47 ]
Themis 48%  48%  [ 45 ]
Total votes : 92
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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:46 pm 
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I just signed up for Themis for the Feb 2013 FL bar.

I paid $50 deposits at BarBri and Kaplan 1L year. As of today, my BarBri balance due was $3280 (total $3330). If I hadn't put down a deposit, I'd be looking at a bill for $3925.

I've been considering Themis for a few reasons: 1) At $1495, that's a nearly $2000 savings. You don't belong in law school if you refuse to at least CONSIDER it. 2) The format is smart. Short lectures, followed by questions applying information you've just heard. Sounds like a recipe for success. 3) For the Feb bar, BarBri uses all or nearly all video lectures anyway! The only advantage Barbri has here is that it forces you to stick to a schedule.

My only outstanding issue was with the materials-- I need to know that they'll do the trick. Then I get a call from an old classmate/Themis rep telling me about a promotion for $1250, plus I'd get a credit for my $50 deposit with BarBri. Themis FL pass rate for July 2012 was 87% (vs 80% state avg), which is embarrassingly higher than my own school--and given that most people use BarBri, probably better than BarBri's rate as well. Plus, Themis offers weekly graded essays, and I'm pretty sure you can submit extra on top of that.

I paid $1200 for Themis. I'll report back later, but right now I'm feeling excellent about my decision.

P.S. I can't believe nobody pounced on the guy whose example included a starting class of 30 associates. Either you guys are losing your edge or you're actually starting to be nice.


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:10 am 
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Nightlight: Thanks for your input! I shall ask you in February what you thought of Themis. I'll be taking the NY bar in July 2013. So I will still have time before I need to pay. Right now I'm 90% leaning towards Themis. I did sit through one of their online demonstrations, and I liked the set up of the lectures, questions and everything.


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Lighthouse28 wrote:
Thank you for your replies everyone !

yadayadayada wrote:
I used THemis for the NY bar and thought it was at least as good, if not better, than what my BarBri friends were getting. I had a few friends doing Themis, so we could meet and compare notes/commiserate, but my learning style is really to do things alone and on my own schedule. Don't be fooled--they give you a lot of structure to follow, should you choose to do so. And I saw loads of essays. I also used it for the MA bar (they offer a joint class).

Don't know if I passed yet, but if I fail I don't think I can blame Themis.

Now--to be fair, I did find some errors in the materials and the site went down a few times. It was terribly frustrating, but the EXACT SAME THINGS were happening in BarBri. So, as others have suggested, if it is going to trip you out to do your own thing without the knowledge that MOST law grads are in the same class you're in, then go with BRI. If not, Themis is a great choice.


Thanks, Yada. Your reply helps. Can you tell me how often the site would go down? And how long would it be until it would be back up? By now you must know if you passed. Did you pass, if you don't mind me asking? And if he had to decide again between Barbri, Kaplan or Themis, would you choose Themis again?

Thanks!


I did pass both bars (NY/MA). The site was down about 8 hrs total. I'm not going to lie, I freaked out while it was down. But I passed. I just kept busy with another MBE book. Would I use it again? Yes--in fact, I am taking a third bar (CA) in Feb, and I will be using Themis.


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:04 pm 
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How does one go about negotiating a lower rate than the standard rate? Do you just act wishy-washy and tell the reps how you're thinking about BarBri?


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:10 pm 
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kalvano wrote:
How does one go about negotiating a lower rate than the standard rate? Do you just act wishy-washy and tell the reps how you're thinking about BarBri?


actually, i got a referral rate for signing up a friend. i also entered a raffle for a 150 dollar coupon. maybe something else. the discounts added up. not bad!


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:34 pm 
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nightlight wrote:
You don't belong in law school if you refuse to at least CONSIDER it.


So many good things in your comments, but this is the best! My school is very pro-barbri. We have several ex-barbri instructors working on campus. You'd think our law program was sponsored by barbi. When I began to talk to the lonely Themis and Barmax reps, I was met with literal anger from fellow students. I found an utter lack of willingness to even discuss the matter. The response was religious zealotry. "Lalala I can't hear you!"

I was told EVERYONE here takes barbri and I'd be the only one not doing it. For me, that's reason enough to not take barbri. So, this year, our pass rate was abysmal. Lower than the state average (CA). When I asked these students how barbri was working out, of course they blamed Themis and Kaplan... Not but 3 weeks ago 95% of students at my school were taking barbri. Now, according to the reps, they pretend it's more like 70%. The Themis, Barmax, and Kaplan people confirm that our school is closer to 95% barbri, higher than most other schools. Guess what, barbri folk, you bear a fair bit of responsibility for the pass rate, like it or not.

I went with Themis because of the price - barbri could not justify the 300% increase in price, and because I prefer to study alone, far aware from the panic and stress of other students. What really got me about Themis, though, is their philosophy is the only one that takes into account modern understanding of human learning. They built their program on studies reflecting how our minds gain and retain knowledge. Hint: it isn't 3 hours of video in a row. It was started by a high-up who left barbri, so the foundation is no different. Just newer methodology without a history of collusion and predatory tactics.

Regarding discounts for those that asked, check with your reps but there are a few. Themis may refund your barbri deposit. They have public interest discounts and discounts for referrals. Once I knew I wanted Themis, I attended our school's auction and won mine for $250. I lost my $250 barbri deposit, because I got suckered in as a frightened first year, but I didn't lose another $3750.

I take the July 2013 bar, so my results are about a year away. I will repost when I get them, though. I liked Themis for MPRE study and passed it without any issues, so I am pretty sure I'll like it for the bar.


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:20 pm 
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Another spunky first poster extolling the virtues of a particular bar prep company. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Geez, too much spam in here.

I am taking option 3: Kaplan. They do not publish pass rates, but if you ask and get through the layers of reps you can find out the numbers.

There is a higher pass rate for Kaplan than Barbri in my state, and they had this ridiculously cheap sale that mar bar prep less than $1000. Both companies only offer watching videos to study for February bar where I live.

I'll let y'all know how the February bar goes. Just got my box full of bar prep books in the mail.

There was no Themis rep that ever came to our school, so it really was never a consideration.


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Mick Haller wrote:
Another spunky first poster extolling the virtues of a particular bar prep company. :roll:


Care to explain why you feel the need to be a dick to a new poster? Someone asked how to get discounts, I answered. Someone mentioned lack of analysis, I replied with my experience. Everyone has to be a first poster sometime. I paid zero dollars for my law degree. Full ride. I'm top 5% of my class and editor-in-chief. I have a job paying six figures post grad that doesn't require over 40 hours of work per week. I achieved this because I analyze options very thoroughly and make wise choices. These are the same tools I used to select a bar prep course.

I also achieved it because I don't feel the need to be a passive aggressive child on message boards just because someone hasn't posted before.

This ENTIRE thread, since you seemed to have missed it, is called "Barbri or Themis --- Please Help!" I replied with my experience. Feel free to make actual, intelligent replies to the content of my post.

Let me guess... you're a barbri rep?


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:55 pm 
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jasminey wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:
Another spunky first poster extolling the virtues of a particular bar prep company. :roll:


Care to explain why you feel the need to be a dick to a new poster? Someone asked how to get discounts, I answered. Someone mentioned lack of analysis, I replied with my experience. Everyone has to be a first poster sometime. I paid zero dollars for my law degree. Full ride. I'm top 5% of my class and editor-in-chief. I have a job paying six figures post grad that doesn't require over 40 hours of work per week. I achieved this because I analyze options very thoroughly and make wise choices. These are the same tools I used to select a bar prep course.

I also achieved it because I don't feel the need to be a passive aggressive child on message boards just because someone hasn't posted before.

This ENTIRE thread, since you seemed to have missed it, is called "Barbri or Themis --- Please Help!" I replied with my experience. Feel free to make actual, intelligent replies to the content of my post.

Let me guess... you're a barbri rep?



Image


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:56 pm 
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I took kaplan and passed the Calif bar this summer. I believe the cost was like 1500$ for the online course. Their MBE question bank is great, and I believe doing well on the MBE is usually the best indicator of whether a person will pass.

But most people who took Themis seem more satisfied than people taking Kaplan. I believe the unpublished Kaplan pass rate for CA was like 75 or 77% in 2011


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:02 pm 
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jasminey wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:
Another spunky first poster extolling the virtues of a particular bar prep company. :roll:


Care to explain why you feel the need to be a dick to a new poster? Someone asked how to get discounts, I answered. Someone mentioned lack of analysis, I replied with my experience. Everyone has to be a first poster sometime. I paid zero dollars for my law degree. Full ride. I'm top 5% of my class and editor-in-chief. I have a job paying six figures post grad that doesn't require over 40 hours of work per week. I achieved this because I analyze options very thoroughly and make wise choices. These are the same tools I used to select a bar prep course.

I also achieved it because I don't feel the need to be a passive aggressive child on message boards just because someone hasn't posted before.

This ENTIRE thread, since you seemed to have missed it, is called "Barbri or Themis --- Please Help!" I replied with my experience. Feel free to make actual, intelligent replies to the content of my post.

Let me guess... you're a barbri rep?


If what I said gets you that riled up, you need to grow some thicker skin. I have no interest in getting into a cat-fight with you, but I'll just say its obvious as fuck when a Themis/Barbri/Kaplan employee or student rep opens a new account and tries to pass themselves off as a genuine, disinterested law student. This forum welcomes law deans and others who want to come and answer questions and promote their schools/services. I think you'd do better if you just come clean.


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:00 pm 
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jasminey wrote:
I paid zero dollars for my law degree. Full ride. I'm top 5% of my class and editor-in-chief. I have a job paying six figures post grad that doesn't require over 40 hours of work per week. I achieved this because I analyze options very thoroughly and make wise choices. These are the same tools I used to select a bar prep course.



While I can think of one job that fits this description, I'm gonna call bullshit to bolded.


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Mick Haller wrote:
If what I said gets you that riled up, you need to grow some thicker skin. I have no interest in getting into a cat-fight with you, but I'll just say its obvious as fuck when a Themis/Barbri/Kaplan employee or student rep opens a new account and tries to pass themselves off as a genuine, disinterested law student. This forum welcomes law deans and others who want to come and answer questions and promote their schools/services. I think you'd do better if you just come clean.


This part does seem to be written like an advertisement...

jasminey wrote:
What really got me about Themis, though, is their philosophy is the only one that takes into account modern understanding of human learning. They built their program on studies reflecting how our minds gain and retain knowledge. Hint: it isn't 3 hours of video in a row. It was started by a high-up who left barbri, so the foundation is no different. Just newer methodology without a history of collusion and predatory tactics.


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:32 am 
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I took BarBri in 2010 for the CA exam (Morning session, with about everyone of my classmates at the live location, unsuccessful on the exam [felt my personal effort was a little lackluster and my laptop crashed the 3rd day and had to handwrite 6 hours].), BarBri in 2011 for the MN exam (Evening session, at the live location but with no close friends in the class, passed the exam), and have spent the entire night researching the best bar prep course to study for the Feb 2013 CA exam online (since I'll be studying from MN, solo dolo 8) ). After reading through all this bullshit on the internet and contrasting between Kaplan/BarBri/Themis, I'm thinking the best program will be Themis given my circumstances, but I doubt I'd be as confident without the hindsight I have from going through BarBri twice and taking two bar exams. [EDIT: When I went to register for Themis on the CA Bar Exam today, noticed that the price has now increased to $1695. The Kaplan price for their online class is $2,090. I'm now not feeling as certain as last night, because the price difference between these two online programs is only $400. I'm going to wait to try the Themis "walk through demo" that they feature on their site next week (this is only offered on tuesdays and thursdays). If it's not impressive, I might have to go with Kaplan, giving the edge on the reputable MBE program and longer history working with bar prep.]


I feel the biggest sell for paying more money for BarBri is that you take it with all of your friends, it becomes a social experience to see everyone at lunch time day in and day out, a lot of people are writing answers on essays that are similar and you "blend in" to the pack and this might somehow affect graders scoring your essays, and mentally you feel like you're keeping up with the Joneses because you spent the most money on the most expensive thing. I think the social factor during long 3 hour lectures is what keeps everyone in the same class, just being able to lighten the mood. What you do with your time outside of the class really determines how ready you are for the exam and if you're going to pass or not. I don't think the success of people on Bar Exams is that they are in BarBri, it's those hours you spend practicing essays, MBEs, drilling your outlines (if you have them made or have someone elses), and deploying whatever memorization technique of your choosing to drill shitty little potential essay topics that aren't going to be tested but you can't afford to risk it (flashcards or whatever). After the 4th of July, you're really looking at yourself and wondering what YOU have done to get YOURSELF ready, it's all on your preparation, there is no magic formula, people that pass the bar exam pass it because they worked themselves based on how much they needed to individually. I think BarBri gets too much credit and just prays off of student fears entering into that summer.


Last edited by ManLaw on Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:33 am 
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jasminey wrote:
I have a job paying six figures post grad that doesn't require over 40 hours of work per week.


If you do, it sure as hell ain't in law, unless you work for your dad or something. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:31 am 
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A demo of Themis: https://mythm-vids-prod.s3.amazonaws.co ... HInWePg%3D

Link expires a week from today. After watching the demo, and clicking on links of lectures done for general law classes, I'm not sure what to think. Wish I could see a demo of an actual bar prep lecture. :?


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:51 am 
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So when is the best time to get the best Themis/Kaplan price?


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:26 pm 
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If you're definitely set on taking a commercial bar prep course, it's probably better to "lock in" the price early, because it usually goes up. Also, you can get free stuff from the company (outlines, video access, etc.) that some people find helpful. If you change your mind at a later date and want to switch courses, most of the prep companies will credit the amount of your deposit with another company.


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:48 pm 
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I.P. Daly wrote:
If you're definitely set on taking a commercial bar prep course, it's probably better to "lock in" the price early, because it usually goes up. Also, you can get free stuff from the company (outlines, video access, etc.) that some people find helpful. If you change your mind at a later date and want to switch courses, most of the prep companies will credit the amount of your deposit with another company.


Assume I'm a 3L already and didn't lock in because worrying about the bar as a 1L is stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:40 pm 
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I think they start getting more desperate later in the spring. What prices are they offering now? I think the cheapest prices I've seen from last year was around 1000$ for themis and 1500$ for Kaplan.

Barbri charges diff rates for diff states, but I think the lowest you'll see is around 2500$, and you'd probably need to apply for a rate reduction to get it that low. Dunno if they want a Fafsa or what.


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:06 pm 
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ManLaw wrote:
jasminey wrote:
I have a job paying six figures post grad that doesn't require over 40 hours of work per week.
If you do, it sure as hell ain't in law, unless you work for your dad or something.


http://www.usajobs.gov

I forgot to mention that the Themis pass rate only includes students who completed at least 80% of the assignments. While I think this is a reasonable reporting method, it does make my comparison to BarBri less meaningful.


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:59 pm 
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Like the OP, I'm trying to decide between Barbri and Themis (will be taking NY in Jul'13). Folks who are getting ready for the Feb'13 bar exam, how is your prep going? Are you happy with your prep company? Are there any website access/ availability problems?
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:53 pm 
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This appears to be the greatest thread in the history of this subject:

http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1881511&mc=34&forum_id=2...id&PHPSESSID=aae365be89e71da5fa16e6652f30951c


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 Post subject: Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:51 pm 
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holdencaulfield wrote:
This is the bar exam. I'd advise you to spare no expense.


Gets eaten by a barbri velociraptor


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