BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )

BarBri or Themis?

Barbri
50
51%
Themis
49
49%
 
Total votes: 99

User avatar
petsoundspop
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:17 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby petsoundspop » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:16 pm

Arbiter213 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:
Arbiter213 wrote:
Br3v wrote:3 first posts in this thread? Something's up


BarBri doesn't bother astroturfing, though that's odd.

Most of the good reasons have been listed. Another: Unlimited graded essays.


I haven't heard of the unlimited graded essays. Is this new? For NY we had only two official "graded" essays, and if we wanted more feedback, we had to "upgrade" for some ridiculous amount (like $500 for 3 more graded essays).

I have to say that I thought the graded essays were the absolute worst feature in the BarBri program. There was absolutely no uniformity in grading (got an 8 on the first one and 2 on the second one even though I had spotted all the issues). It seemed pretty clear that the BarBri graders don't read the essays you turn in, as they would leave feedback regarding issues I addressed and discussed fully. The story amongst our group this summer was that students have turned in, word for word, model essay answers and have still received failing grades back. They definitely give you enough practice essays to work with, but the feedback is pretty much non-existent. You could just do the practice essays on your own and then check the model answers to see if you spotted all the issues.


I can't comment if it's "new" but there are most assuredly unlimited graded essays.


I only ask because we had no such thing for New York.

User avatar
Arbiter213
Posts: 2249
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby Arbiter213 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:27 pm

petsoundspop wrote:
I only ask because we had no such thing for New York.


Yah I'll check again but I'm 99% sure they do at least as of this year have that in NY.

User avatar
petsoundspop
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:17 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby petsoundspop » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:36 pm

Arbiter213 wrote:
petsoundspop wrote:
I only ask because we had no such thing for New York.


Yah I'll check again but I'm 99% sure they do at least as of this year have that in NY.


That makes sense and is a great idea. Even though I had problems with their grading, this could tip the balance in BarBri's favor.

dudders
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:56 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby dudders » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:49 pm

pehaigllleises wrote:OK so to give an opposing view to all the pro-BarBri people, I'm doing Themis. I do very well on tests, I take tests seriously, I won't attend in-person lectures, and the Illinois pass rate and my school's pass rate are both ridiculously high.


I don't know how Themis calculates their pass rate, but I wouldn't trust any numbers until you know how they're calculated, and how many Illinois people/people at your school actually took Themis. (I know you only get included in Kaplan's pass rate if you attended a high percentage of classes or something.) A high pass rate is less meaningful if 90% of students at your school took Barbri and only 12 people took Themis.

pehaigllleises
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:57 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby pehaigllleises » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:40 pm

dudders wrote:
I don't know how Themis calculates their pass rate, but I wouldn't trust any numbers until you know how they're calculated, and how many Illinois people/people at your school actually took Themis. (I know you only get included in Kaplan's pass rate if you attended a high percentage of classes or something.) A high pass rate is less meaningful if 90% of students at your school took Barbri and only 12 people took Themis.


I don't see why I should particularly care what percent of Chicago 3Ls did BarBri over Themis. Even if everyone at the University of Chicago took BarBri, I doubt the reason our pass rate is higher than the state average would be more owing to BarBri rather than some other more obvious confounding factor like ability to do well on standardized tests.

dudders
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:56 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby dudders » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:33 pm

pehaigllleises wrote:
dudders wrote:
I don't know how Themis calculates their pass rate, but I wouldn't trust any numbers until you know how they're calculated, and how many Illinois people/people at your school actually took Themis. (I know you only get included in Kaplan's pass rate if you attended a high percentage of classes or something.) A high pass rate is less meaningful if 90% of students at your school took Barbri and only 12 people took Themis.


I don't see why I should particularly care what percent of Chicago 3Ls did BarBri over Themis. Even if everyone at the University of Chicago took BarBri, I doubt the reason our pass rate is higher than the state average would be more owing to BarBri rather than some other more obvious confounding factor like ability to do well on standardized tests.


The names of the companies were solely for example. My point is that if you want to rely on or cite pass rates in making a bar prep decision 1) know how they're calculated, and 2) know your sample size.

And if every 3L at a given school is truly a standardized test master, presumably bar pass rates are irrelevant.
Last edited by dudders on Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Black-Blue
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:46 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby Black-Blue » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:20 am

I'm going to use Themis.

I've never found any concrete reason why Barbri is better.

User avatar
Arbiter213
Posts: 2249
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby Arbiter213 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:37 am

Black-Blue wrote:I'm going to use Themis.

I've never found any concrete reason why Barbri is better.


Honestly when you account for the price difference it's probably a wash.

Kaplan is terrible though.

blahh
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:39 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby blahh » Sun May 06, 2012 3:57 am

My school subsidizes some of barbri's cost, but takes away the ability to stream unlimited lecturers online. This makes Themis and barbri comparable price-wise. So, with cost not being a huge factor, I chose Themis because I prefer to study at home, the lecturer method works for me (15-30 minute clips followed by multiple choice questions versus watching three one hour videos consecutively), and due to Barbri's horrendous customer service (which may have been a personal issue). I really don't want to be in a crowded classroom everyday.

My main gripe with Barbri is that they utilize fear to make you feel that Barbri is the program that will help you to pass. I went to a few lecturers (we started VERY early) and it seemed like a lot of fear mongering. Tons of anxiety in those classrooms. So, I made a personal choice and decided that Themis was for me. It ended up costing me a little more because I wasn't able to get a full refund from Barbri, but the ability to watch videos at home and on my own schedule was worth it. The bar exam is not fun; why make the process more miserable than it has to be?

Picking a bar class is stressful, but once you commit the best thing to do is to forget about what everyone else is doing and worry about yourself. Good luck!

User avatar
Lighthouse28
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby Lighthouse28 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:14 am

I'd like to take the NY bar. I'm seriously considering Themis because it is much cheaper. But it seems that most people who have taken Themis did so in Illinois. Is there anyone on this forum who took Themis for the NY bar that can offer some insight? Thanks!

yadayadayada
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:52 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby yadayadayada » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:50 am

I used THemis for the NY bar and thought it was at least as good, if not better, than what my BarBri friends were getting. I had a few friends doing Themis, so we could meet and compare notes/commiserate, but my learning style is really to do things alone and on my own schedule. Don't be fooled--they give you a lot of structure to follow, should you choose to do so. And I saw loads of essays. I also used it for the MA bar (they offer a joint class).

Don't know if I passed yet, but if I fail I don't think I can blame Themis.

Now--to be fair, I did find some errors in the materials and the site went down a few times. It was terribly frustrating, but the EXACT SAME THINGS were happening in BarBri. So, as others have suggested, if it is going to trip you out to do your own thing without the knowledge that MOST law grads are in the same class you're in, then go with BRI. If not, Themis is a great choice.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:44 pm

Barbri's business model works so well at schools where lots of people are getting their bar prep subsidized by law firms and other organizations. It actually makes sense to follow the herd- if 29/30 people at your firm are taking Barbri and you are taking Themis, that sends a poor message to the firm especially if you fail.

That being said, I didn't notice much of a difference between my friends taking Themis and Barbri except for the odd "I'm worried because it's Themis" Veblen good stuff.

This year, it seemed that the bar exam heavily tested a lot of topics that Barbri didn't focus on. The MBE especially had a lot of questions that were not stuff that Barbri drilled. People were pissed.

User avatar
Lighthouse28
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby Lighthouse28 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:14 pm

Thank you for your replies everyone !

yadayadayada wrote:I used THemis for the NY bar and thought it was at least as good, if not better, than what my BarBri friends were getting. I had a few friends doing Themis, so we could meet and compare notes/commiserate, but my learning style is really to do things alone and on my own schedule. Don't be fooled--they give you a lot of structure to follow, should you choose to do so. And I saw loads of essays. I also used it for the MA bar (they offer a joint class).

Don't know if I passed yet, but if I fail I don't think I can blame Themis.

Now--to be fair, I did find some errors in the materials and the site went down a few times. It was terribly frustrating, but the EXACT SAME THINGS were happening in BarBri. So, as others have suggested, if it is going to trip you out to do your own thing without the knowledge that MOST law grads are in the same class you're in, then go with BRI. If not, Themis is a great choice.


Thanks, Yada. Your reply helps. Can you tell me how often the site would go down? And how long would it be until it would be back up? By now you must know if you passed. Did you pass, if you don't mind me asking? And if he had to decide again between Barbri, Kaplan or Themis, would you choose Themis again?

Thanks!

User avatar
Bikeflip
Posts: 1833
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:01 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:31 pm

Lighthouse28 wrote:Thank you for your replies everyone !

yadayadayada wrote:I used THemis for the NY bar and thought it was at least as good, if not better, than what my BarBri friends were getting. I had a few friends doing Themis, so we could meet and compare notes/commiserate, but my learning style is really to do things alone and on my own schedule. Don't be fooled--they give you a lot of structure to follow, should you choose to do so. And I saw loads of essays. I also used it for the MA bar (they offer a joint class).

Don't know if I passed yet, but if I fail I don't think I can blame Themis.

Now--to be fair, I did find some errors in the materials and the site went down a few times. It was terribly frustrating, but the EXACT SAME THINGS were happening in BarBri. So, as others have suggested, if it is going to trip you out to do your own thing without the knowledge that MOST law grads are in the same class you're in, then go with BRI. If not, Themis is a great choice.


Thanks, Yada. Your reply helps. Can you tell me how often the site would go down? And how long would it be until it would be back up? By now you must know if you passed. Did you pass, if you don't mind me asking? And if he had to decide again between Barbri, Kaplan or Themis, would you choose Themis again?

Thanks!



Comment from my buddy who used Themis and passed: "It's more than adequate for NY, but you need to follow their schedule," FWIW.

User avatar
I.P. Daly
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:27 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby I.P. Daly » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:06 pm

Lighthouse28 wrote:Thank you for your replies everyone !

Thanks, Yada. Your reply helps. Can you tell me how often the site would go down? And how long would it be until it would be back up? By now you must know if you passed. Did you pass, if you don't mind me asking? And if he had to decide again between Barbri, Kaplan or Themis, would you choose Themis again?

Thanks!


I passed the NY bar using Kaplan (computer course) this summer. I thought Kaplan was more than adequate and their PMBR materials (MBE) were great (and it was cheaper than a three credit law school class). I'd be happy to try to candidly answer any questions about the Kaplan NY course.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:14 pm

I.P. Daly wrote:Why are there so many generic "first post" comments in favor of BarBri???


My thoughts exactly.

User avatar
Lighthouse28
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby Lighthouse28 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:53 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
Comment from my buddy who used Themis and passed: "It's more than adequate for NY, but you need to follow their schedule," FWIW.


Can you ask your friend: With the site crashes, was he able to stay on their schedule? How often did the site crash and how long would it take to come back up? Did it cause him unnecessary stress?

Thanks!

User avatar
Lighthouse28
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby Lighthouse28 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:56 pm

I.P. Daly wrote:I passed the NY bar using Kaplan (computer course) this summer. I thought Kaplan was more than adequate and their PMBR materials (MBE) were great (and it was cheaper than a three credit law school class). I'd be happy to try to candidly answer any questions about the Kaplan NY course.


I know someone who took the online Kaplan course for NY and failed the bar this past summer. How often did the online course crash?

I am nervous about Kaplan since they don't publish pass rates. I know Barbri doesn't either, but I suppose Barbri doesn't have to since people flock to take Barbri.

User avatar
I.P. Daly
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:27 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby I.P. Daly » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:06 pm

Lighthouse28 wrote:
I.P. Daly wrote:I passed the NY bar using Kaplan (computer course) this summer. I thought Kaplan was more than adequate and their PMBR materials (MBE) were great (and it was cheaper than a three credit law school class). I'd be happy to try to candidly answer any questions about the Kaplan NY course.


I know someone who took the online Kaplan course for NY and failed the bar this past summer. How often did the online course crash?

I am nervous about Kaplan since they don't publish pass rates. I know Barbri doesn't either, but I suppose Barbri doesn't have to since people flock to take Barbri.


Yeah, I agree about the failure to disclose passage rates. Last fall when I was deciding on a prep course, I could not find that info for either Kaplan or BarBri. I think BarBri advised me that the passage rate for people taking the in-person classroom course was higher. At least one course does publish their results for NY (I can't remember which course).

I don't recall major issues with Kaplan's server crashing. I think it may have jammed right after everyone took the mock bar exam and uploaded their essays (in mid July, everyone takes a mock bar exam, and the essay answers are uploaded online). The server was not down for long. I don't recall ever being frustrated as the result of major technical difficulties.

Black-Blue
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:46 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby Black-Blue » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:39 am

Lighthouse28 wrote:Thanks, Yada. Your reply helps. Can you tell me how often the site would go down? And how long would it be until it would be back up? By now you must know if you passed. Did you pass, if you don't mind me asking? And if he had to decide again between Barbri, Kaplan or Themis, would you choose Themis again

Themis had two early downtimes, one at the earlier start date (the start date for the programs for the harder bars, like NY, CA, etc.), and another downtime at the later start date (the start date for the easier bars), around 6-7 hours downtime each, if I recall. There was also one downtime (or two?) of several hours around a week before the bar exam. There was also another downtime when their web host's server lost power during a storm.

Since the downtimes were only half a day, it wasn't that big of a deal for me. But some people were upset. However, Barbri also had frequent downtimes, I heard.

I passed my bar so obviously now I believe Themis was of better value than barbri.
Last edited by Black-Blue on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Mick Haller
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby Mick Haller » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:45 am

I'd take the cheapest option. I did Kaplan online for $1600 and passed the Calif bar. Biggest factor is studying hard, no matter which company you choose.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:42 am

Bar results are out.

DAT THEMIS.

User avatar
Lighthouse28
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby Lighthouse28 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:22 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone ! :) I'll probably go with Themis.

prezidentv8 wrote:Bar results are out.

DAT THEMIS.


What does DAT mean??? :oops:

User avatar
Mick Haller
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby Mick Haller » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:44 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
I.P. Daly wrote:Why are there so many generic "first post" comments in favor of BarBri???


My thoughts exactly.


All of them made positive Barbri comments within 10 minutes of registering and then disappeared forever.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: BarBri or Themis --- PLEASE HELP!

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:25 pm

Lighthouse28 wrote:Thanks for the replies everyone ! :) I'll probably go with Themis.

prezidentv8 wrote:Bar results are out.

DAT THEMIS.


What does DAT mean??? :oops:


"That" :mrgreen:

See also: --LinkRemoved--
(think that's the reference)




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ididntwantsalmon, shineoncrazydiamond and 6 guests