Advice for Dropping Out

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t14fanboy
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby t14fanboy » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:51 pm

Mamba24 wrote:Hello everyone, I have been following this site for quite a while now and I feel like I need some advice from the brain trust of this site.

I am currently a 1L at a tier 3 school. I have not done well so far in my legal writing course and I feel as if the reason is because I am not interested in the subject anymore. I had a background in journalism and I have been considering going back to earning a masters in journalism because my experience in law school is awful. Is this right for me to do? I don't think being one of the lower ranked students in a tier 3 school is a good thing for employment right?


I would get out while you still can.

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rbgrocio
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby rbgrocio » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:08 pm

I have a B.S. in Journalism, and finding a job in that field is virtually impossible this day, and you can make just as much money working at publix full time. It is ridiculous!

I go to a Tier 3 too; had two job offers seven months before graduation. I did well in L.S., but ur only a 1L, you might do better you 2L and 3L year. GPA can still change a lot.

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JoeFish
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby JoeFish » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:47 pm

rbgrocio wrote: but ur only a 1L, you might do better you 2L and 3L year. GPA can still change a lot.


Ostensibly true, but not if you know your heart's not in it.

OP, I feel for you, I really do, but, as has sort of been alluded to (if not outright stated), the fact that you went to law school, and then are considering multiple masters degrees - and don't seem to be committed to any of them - suggests that you really, really need to take some time to figure out what you want to do. Going to school for the sole purpose of going to school is never the answer.

So, then, what is the answer? You need to take some time to figure this out. If you have to wait tables to get by while you do so, then so be it. Weigh your options. Hell, if you're religious, pray about it. My mom says it helps. But think really, really hard about what you want to do. Don't start by thinking about what master's program you should apply to - that's presuming too much. Get back to the basics. Blank slate. If you decide your next path is school, or retail, or painting, or street performance, or teaching English in Nepal, then so be it. But really step back and figure out what you want to do, and what is best for you. You've got a bit of a head start: being a lawyer is already off of the list. But you've gotta figure this out. It's important.

ryegye87
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby ryegye87 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:48 pm

No offense to the OP, but I think you seriously need to do more research when it comes to pursuing different professions. First you go to a Tier 3 for "money and prestige", and yet even though you allegedly read this site regularly, you're unhappy with how lawschool turned out and want to drop out. What I mean by that is, if there is one place which will prepare you for all of the negative effects of law school better than any other place in the world, it is this place. Secondly, no longer motivated by the "money and prestige" that would come out of a T3, you decide to go into journalism, and then are surprised to find out that it is a tough industry to get into that doesn't pay well at all regardless of the advanced degrees. Seriously? Do a little research before you make your life decisions, it will serve you well.

Also, as an aside, I seriously considered journalism as a profession and graduate degree before coming to law school. I went to a school with one of the top writing programs in the entire country, and when I graduated, I couldn't get a job as a coffee-maker in middle-of-nowhere Iowa, much less a decent publication. I also spoke with professional journalists with advanced degrees from Columbia and Northwestern who were freelancing for pennies in order to pay the bills.

Most graduate schools require you have some sort of decent portfolio, which you won't be able to get, and even if you do, its not worth it. Truly.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby acrossthelake » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:05 pm

Drop out of law school, but do not then pursue another graduate degree until you have first pursued a job. Going from graduate degree to graduate degree will only lead to you racking up a lot of debt, useless degrees, and no way of getting out of debt.

There are very few jobs where you get in by getting a graduate or specialized degree first.
Allow me to list an almost exhaustive list of them:
Physician
Dentist
Pharmacist
Nurse
Optometrist
Lawyer
Professor

Jobs where it's not necessary, but it can still be pretty helpful:
Engineer
Computer Scientist

For nearly every other career path, you are much better off starting in an entry-level job, working your way up, and then going back for a master's degree later to supplement your work. Don't get the master's degree first.

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TTH
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby TTH » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:06 pm

acrossthelake wrote:Drop out of law school, but do not then pursue another graduate degree until you have first pursued a job. Going from graduate degree to graduate degree will only lead to you racking up a lot of debt, useless degrees, and no way of getting out of debt.

There are very few jobs where you get in by getting a graduate or specialized degree first.
Allow me to list an almost exhaustive list of them:
Physician
Dentist
Pharmacist
Nurse
Optometrist
Lawyer
Professor

Jobs where it's not necessary, but it can still be pretty helpful:
Engineer
Computer Scientist

For nearly every other career path, you are much better off starting in an entry-level job, working your way up, and then going back for a master's degree later to supplement your work. Don't get the master's degree first.


This post should be the subject of a mandatory seminar for undergraduates the year before their graduation.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:04 pm

Basically, you need to think back to exactly why you wanted to go to law school in the first place. Was it solely, as you say, "for the money and the prestige"? If it was, I would drop out. Did you not fully investigate what it means to be a lawyer and the state of the market? If so, I would consider dropping out. However, if it was because you had a passion for a certain area of law, and simply want to drop out because you're unsatisfied with law school, I would consider staying.

I was in a similar position as you. You need to be honest with yourself and ask whether law school truly is not a good fit and whether you would be any more satisfied somewhere else. My problem is that I always think the grass is greener on the other side. Keep that in mind for yourself.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby AVBucks4239 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:52 pm

ryegye87 wrote:No offense to the OP, but I think you seriously need to do more research when it comes to pursuing different professions. First you go to a Tier 3 for "money and prestige", and yet even though you allegedly read this site regularly, you're unhappy with how lawschool turned out and want to drop out. What I mean by that is, if there is one place which will prepare you for all of the negative effects of law school better than any other place in the world, it is this place. Secondly, no longer motivated by the "money and prestige" that would come out of a T3, you decide to go into journalism, and then are surprised to find out that it is a tough industry to get into that doesn't pay well at all regardless of the advanced degrees. Seriously? Do a little research before you make your life decisions, it will serve you well.

Also, as an aside, I seriously considered journalism as a profession and graduate degree before coming to law school. I went to a school with one of the top writing programs in the entire country, and when I graduated, I couldn't get a job as a coffee-maker in middle-of-nowhere Iowa, much less a decent publication. I also spoke with professional journalists with advanced degrees from Columbia and Northwestern who were freelancing for pennies in order to pay the bills.

Most graduate schools require you have some sort of decent portfolio, which you won't be able to get, and even if you do, its not worth it. Truly.

Pretty much sums up my undergraduate experience (minus being at a top writing program) and ability to obtain employment after graduation.

I have a friend who graduated from a pretty good undergrad. He is working at a newspaper. Only problem is that he doesn't write, he sits by a phone and records people calling in local high school basketball scores. It's the only job he could get.

Mamba24
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby Mamba24 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:35 am

Thanks guys! I appreciate it very much. I am already working for a sports journalism company, a pretty popular one at that. If I put in more time then maybe I will be able to rank up there and make some more money. I really appreciate all of the advice given here.

To be honest I was sort of forced in here by family and social pressure. I am going to take some time off before going to any other school(if I do) and evaluate what I need to do. My family has got off my back and now understand that I have the ability to do other things. Luckily for me I have dipped my hands into a lot fields and could work anywhere from journalism to computer engineering or psychology. Also, I'm only 22 years old and I need to stop living life so fast. I want to get rich quick but I have learned to love the saying "Rome was not built in one day" more than ever before.

Thank you all. You guys are truly the best.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby JusticeHarlan » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:03 am

It sounds like you're making the right decision. Good luck!

yntzoid
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby yntzoid » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:34 am

Mamba24 wrote:Thanks guys! I appreciate it very much. I am already working for a sports journalism company, a pretty popular one at that. If I put in more time then maybe I will be able to rank up there and make some more money. I really appreciate all of the advice given here.

To be honest I was sort of forced in here by family and social pressure. I am going to take some time off before going to any other school(if I do) and evaluate what I need to do. My family has got off my back and now understand that I have the ability to do other things. Luckily for me I have dipped my hands into a lot fields and could work anywhere from journalism to computer engineering or psychology. Also, I'm only 22 years old and I need to stop living life so fast. I want to get rich quick but I have learned to love the saying "Rome was not built in one day" more than ever before.

Thank you all. You guys are truly the best.


I debated dropping out last semester, I ended up pulling the trigger...I still frequent TLS mostly out of habit and I enjoy lurking and reading some of the funny posters. I left without having a 'plan.' I told my parents I had one, I told my friends I had one, but I didn't. I applied to jobs mindlessly for a while, studied and took GRE and GMAT... took a few civil service tests...but had no direction. Things sort of fell into place for me...I landed two pretty sweet gigs, one is working with troubled kids, and another is coaching the sport I played in high school and college...The opportunity sort of just appeared.

So you don't need to jump back into school right away. Leaving LS was the best decision I ever made, I woke up miserable every day and knew I didn't care for the material. Life is too short, do what you want to do. Good luck.

Mamba24
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby Mamba24 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:15 pm

yntzoid wrote:
Mamba24 wrote:Thanks guys! I appreciate it very much. I am already working for a sports journalism company, a pretty popular one at that. If I put in more time then maybe I will be able to rank up there and make some more money. I really appreciate all of the advice given here.

To be honest I was sort of forced in here by family and social pressure. I am going to take some time off before going to any other school(if I do) and evaluate what I need to do. My family has got off my back and now understand that I have the ability to do other things. Luckily for me I have dipped my hands into a lot fields and could work anywhere from journalism to computer engineering or psychology. Also, I'm only 22 years old and I need to stop living life so fast. I want to get rich quick but I have learned to love the saying "Rome was not built in one day" more than ever before.

Thank you all. You guys are truly the best.


I debated dropping out last semester, I ended up pulling the trigger...I still frequent TLS mostly out of habit and I enjoy lurking and reading some of the funny posters. I left without having a 'plan.' I told my parents I had one, I told my friends I had one, but I didn't. I applied to jobs mindlessly for a while, studied and took GRE and GMAT... took a few civil service tests...but had no direction. Things sort of fell into place for me...I landed two pretty sweet gigs, one is working with troubled kids, and another is coaching the sport I played in high school and college...The opportunity sort of just appeared.

So you don't need to jump back into school right away. Leaving LS was the best decision I ever made, I woke up miserable every day and knew I didn't care for the material. Life is too short, do what you want to do. Good luck.

Thanks!

raeq63
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby raeq63 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:11 pm

Sorry to revive this post, but I'm also thinking about dropping out after my first year. I really feel like I'm doing this just for the prestige and money, no real passion for law. In fact, I think I would hate the practice of law (at least my perception of it: long hours, tedious detailed work, constant stress). First semester was alright. I enjoyed substantive classes some days. But I absolutely hate and continue to hate my legal writing course.

I have good (top 25%) grades at a top 20 school, so this makes a decision to leave harder. I'm having a lot of difficulty finding any summer internship, which I want just to see if I would like doing something in law. If I drop out I would likely have a job at commercial real estate company (I have a business related degree). I could also take up to a 1 year leave of absence and keep my scholarship, but not sure how that looks to future legal employers. I just don't feel like I have the stones to drop out even though I hate 85% of law school and am pretty sure I won't like being a lawyer either.

raeq63
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby raeq63 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:16 pm

Also, I feel like I rushed into my decision to go to law school. I think I would have greatly benefited by some time in the real world with a full time job before I jumped into law school.

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reformed calvinist
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby reformed calvinist » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:21 pm

Same here. Sounds like you have an easier decision though. I wish I could go back in time and convince myself to major in something useful.

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cinephile
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby cinephile » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:28 pm

raeq63 wrote:If I drop out I would likely have a job at commercial real estate company (I have a business related degree). I could also take up to a 1 year leave of absence and keep my scholarship, but not sure how that looks to future legal employers.


I personally know of two people who took a leave of absence for non-grade related situations, and they didn't seem to have any difficulty with legal employers when they returned. Of course, both of them worked in legal jobs during their year off, but you could spin an interest in real estate to something legal if you wanted to return. Not that anecdotes mean much, but still. If you're not happy, then maybe taking the year off is what's best for you.

yntzoid
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby yntzoid » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:41 pm

raeq63 wrote:Sorry to revive this post, but I'm also thinking about dropping out after my first year. I really feel like I'm doing this just for the prestige and money, no real passion for law. In fact, I think I would hate the practice of law (at least my perception of it: long hours, tedious detailed work, constant stress). First semester was alright. I enjoyed substantive classes some days. But I absolutely hate and continue to hate my legal writing course.

I have good (top 25%) grades at a top 20 school, so this makes a decision to leave harder. I'm having a lot of difficulty finding any summer internship, which I want just to see if I would like doing something in law. If I drop out I would likely have a job at commercial real estate company (I have a business related degree). I could also take up to a 1 year leave of absence and keep my scholarship, but not sure how that looks to future legal employers. I just don't feel like I have the stones to drop out even though I hate 85% of law school and am pretty sure I won't like being a lawyer either.


Listen, I have family who are attorneys. The general consensus is "I hated law school, but I do not hate practicing law." It is one thing to hate Civ Pro and K. Like you, I enjoyed those classes and hated legal writing. Unfortunately, the legal profession requires a lot of legal writing. You need to be honest with yourself. You seem like I was, your mind is all over the place. You are searching threads about dropping out, talking about maybe taking a leave of absence, or possibly working in real estate. You need to take a step back and determine what is really important to you.

We live in a society where people our age (assuming you are a recent college grad) have been taught 'follow your passion.' I agree with that to a point. Work is called 'work' for a reason. The jobs I am working now do not pay a lot but I do really enjoy going to them everyday. There are good days and bad days, but this is true for any profession. Like I said in a previous post in this thread, I did not have a plan when I left. My family and friends were shocked I actually quit. It worked out. I hold my head high when I tell people I left.

All I can tell you, though, is that the first morning after I left was the first day I did not wake up miserable. My mind was calm. Good luck!

*On the other side of the coin...you are top 25% at a T20... bump that to top 10-15% and maybe you will like the law more given the larger amount of opportunities that may be available to you.

raeq63
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby raeq63 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:51 pm

yntzoid, can I ask what you're doing now? You said you're enjoying it, and I'd love to know if/where the grass is greener. I'm thinking right now that taking the leave of absence might be my best option, especially if I continue to have trouble finding a summer legal job.

Villanova3
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby Villanova3 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:56 pm

What if you have like a 2.5 GPA at Villanova, but are going for free with no stips?!

Reprisal
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby Reprisal » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:26 am

Mamba24 wrote:Thanks guys! I appreciate it very much. I am already working for a sports journalism company, a pretty popular one at that. If I put in more time then maybe I will be able to rank up there and make some more money. I really appreciate all of the advice given here.

To be honest I was sort of forced in here by family and social pressure. I am going to take some time off before going to any other school(if I do) and evaluate what I need to do. My family has got off my back and now understand that I have the ability to do other things. Luckily for me I have dipped my hands into a lot fields and could work anywhere from journalism to computer engineering or psychology. Also, I'm only 22 years old and I need to stop living life so fast. I want to get rich quick but I have learned to love the saying "Rome was not built in one day" more than ever before.

Thank you all. You guys are truly the best.


Don't drop out.

If you're already interning at a sports journalism company, then getting your legal degree won't hurt that.

If you stick with it, regardless of the TTT status, you will have a J.D., and you'll eventually pass the bar. Take classes that allow you to develop your writing style, and apply it to legal topics. Treat court hearings as a game, write up trials as if they were gridiron matches. Become your local Nina Totenberg.

Having a J.D. will give you critical thinking skills that you can eventually parlay into better writing and an executive position within your company. you'll be able to write, and cover their ass. That's more valuable than just one or the other, and in an industry in which reporters frequently take on more responsibility than they're capable of, it'll give you an edge.

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby LazinessPerSe » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:01 am

Reprisal wrote:
Mamba24 wrote:Thanks guys! I appreciate it very much. I am already working for a sports journalism company, a pretty popular one at that. If I put in more time then maybe I will be able to rank up there and make some more money. I really appreciate all of the advice given here.

To be honest I was sort of forced in here by family and social pressure. I am going to take some time off before going to any other school(if I do) and evaluate what I need to do. My family has got off my back and now understand that I have the ability to do other things. Luckily for me I have dipped my hands into a lot fields and could work anywhere from journalism to computer engineering or psychology. Also, I'm only 22 years old and I need to stop living life so fast. I want to get rich quick but I have learned to love the saying "Rome was not built in one day" more than ever before.

Thank you all. You guys are truly the best.


Don't drop out.

If you're already interning at a sports journalism company, then getting your legal degree won't hurt that.

If you stick with it, regardless of the TTT status, you will have a J.D., and you'll eventually pass the bar. Take classes that allow you to develop your writing style, and apply it to legal topics. Treat court hearings as a game, write up trials as if they were gridiron matches. Become your local Nina Totenberg.

Having a J.D. will give you critical thinking skills that you can eventually parlay into better writing and an executive position within your company. you'll be able to write, and cover their ass. That's more valuable than just one or the other, and in an industry in which reporters frequently take on more responsibility than they're capable of, it'll give you an edge.


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BlueDiamond
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby BlueDiamond » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:16 am

kaiser wrote:If your heart really isn't in it, and you can tell that being a lawyer is not what you want to do, then that in itself should make the decision simple, because you would otherwise be setting yourself up for unhappiness and an unfulfilling career. The fact that you have only 1 year under your belt means that your debt wouldn't be too huge yet (and hopefully you have a scholarship there which mitigates whatever debt has already accrued). The fact that you didn't do well, and attend a school with poor job prospects (a blanket assumption for any T3), makes it seem fairly logical to get out, especially if you don't really want to be there.


with low grades at a T3 id say dropping out is the right decision unless you have some sort of guaranteed job waiting for you.. however, id also like to say for anyone else reading this that law school is absolutely nothing like the practice of law - even legal research and writing - and a distaste for the subject matter should not be a reason to drop out if you've worked in a legal setting or contacted attorneys and think you will enjoy doing what they do. Some of the happiest and most successful attorneys I have met have told me they despised law school

full disclosure: i absolutely hate every aspect of law school and the above is the reason I've decided to stay

yntzoid
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby yntzoid » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:14 am

raeq63 wrote:yntzoid, can I ask what you're doing now? You said you're enjoying it, and I'd love to know if/where the grass is greener. I'm thinking right now that taking the leave of absence might be my best option, especially if I continue to have trouble finding a summer legal job.


I'm working a few jobs right now. My main one is a sort of YMCA/after school program for troubled kids in BOCES type programs or kids with just awful family situations. I tutor them with homework, advise them, play with them that sort of stuff. Fulfilling? Yes. Low paying? Yes. I'm also coaching two teams, one is in the later evening coaching kids in the sport I played in high school. The other is early in the AM as part of a coaching staff for tri-athletes.

The coaching jobs fell in my lap the same week. I was training with the tri-athletes and the coach asked if I wanted to join the staff. The other team I used to compete for when I was younger. One of their coaches left and I was lucky enough to get a call. My main job (still an hourly wage and no benefits though) came to me through (you guessed it) connections. One of the other coaches on one of the teams works there as manager. I had mentioned my undergrad was in Psych and I was considering down the road becoming a counselor and we were able to work it out!

So is the grass really greener? I don't know. I lucked out. Sometimes things just fall into place. Take the leave of absence, you can make up some story if need be. I am technically on a leave of absence even though I have no intention of going back. That softened the blow with my parents as I was "keeping all doors open." Maybe spend the year volunteering/shadowing with lawyers (if you have no experience) to see what it is really like while also pursuing other options? Best of luck! Life is short. Money makes life easier, but at some point you have to make YOU happy.

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JoeMo
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby JoeMo » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:14 am

ryegye87 wrote:No offense to the OP, but I think you seriously need to do more research when it comes to pursuing different professions. First you go to a Tier 3 for "money and prestige", and yet even though you allegedly read this site regularly, you're unhappy with how lawschool turned out and want to drop out. What I mean by that is, if there is one place which will prepare you for all of the negative effects of law school better than any other place in the world, it is this place. Secondly, no longer motivated by the "money and prestige" that would come out of a T3, you decide to go into journalism, and then are surprised to find out that it is a tough industry to get into that doesn't pay well at all regardless of the advanced degrees. Seriously? Do a little research before you make your life decisions, it will serve you well.

Also, as an aside, I seriously considered journalism as a profession and graduate degree before coming to law school. I went to a school with one of the top writing programs in the entire country, and when I graduated, I couldn't get a job as a coffee-maker in middle-of-nowhere Iowa, much less a decent publication. I also spoke with professional journalists with advanced degrees from Columbia and Northwestern who were freelancing for pennies in order to pay the bills.

Most graduate schools require you have some sort of decent portfolio, which you won't be able to get, and even if you do, its not worth it. Truly.


Pretty much all of this! You chose journalism even though it's been a dying field for quite some time. Yes, even sports journalism is. Psychology undergrad degrees are also pretty useless so double whammy there. Then law school for the money and prestige at a TTT and now back to get a journalism masters? Choose something that's going to give you a JOB ITE if that's what you're looking for. If you're looking for just educational enrichment then journalism might be just right.

Image

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JoeMo
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Re: Advice for Dropping Out

Postby JoeMo » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:19 am

ah f*ck, this is an old thread that's been revived. Now I can't tell if I'm stoopid.




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