What is up with this semester?!

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Advice Dog
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Advice Dog » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:57 pm

Dear Gentle OP,

Law School is byzantine pointless exercise. You're beginning to realize it. Your reaction is normal. Don't worry: there is life after law school, and for many, practicing law is much better. Your summer experience may provide some hope.

Yours, etc.,

Advice Dog

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InnocuousDiatribe
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby InnocuousDiatribe » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:11 pm

beachbum wrote:
alicrimson wrote:I think a large part of this feeling is that the "excitement" of law school has worn out. Its no longer novel, we kind of have an idea of how stuff works, and many of us have realized that there are still really fun things in the world still that do not involve 6 page dissents by Scalia. I know I'm not really enjoying this semester as much as last semester. I'm not sure if this is because I despise con law or because its no longer special and fun. I enjoy the material (minus con law), the social stuff, and my classmates (I've been dating a fellow 1L since before school started. *gasp* different section. I'm not sure I could do same section.) I'm sorry I'm not much help but I can commiserate. I'm just trying to get through this semester, start studying early, and be happy that come May there will only be 2 years left until *hopefully* I can start making money. Sad, but true.


Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

If anything, I'm trying to fight complacency. The novelty and anxiety of law school has subsided; I think I have a fairly good idea of what is expected/required to prepare for class and do well on exams; and now I'm just kinda... going through the motions. Add to that the fact that the first month or two of the semester (minus LARW) doesn't really count for much, and it's almost been a struggle to stay motivated at times.

I'm still on top of all my readings and everything, but I'm definitely not as excited/tense as last semester. But I'm sure that'll change as finals start to creep into the schedule.


That's interesting. I'm much more tense this semester than last, but I do know what you mean by "going through the motions." I did fairly well, so I feel a constant pressure to do at least as well this semester. I've been checking my logged hours from this and last semester, and on average I'm studying 5-10 hours more per week than I did this time last year. It is taking a toll though. I feel lethargic and unmotivated (except for feeling panicked if I'm not studying), and absolutely need several cups of coffee to stay up, as well as "assistance" to go to bed. Law school problems, I guess.

Edit--Go to the gym regularly; it helps.

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philly_law
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby philly_law » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:16 pm

Don't worry, these feelings get worse in 2L. Especially if you make journal, which you quickly realize is glorified secretarial work that law professors are too lazy to do themselves.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby yngblkgifted » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:18 pm

InnocuousDiatribe wrote:
beachbum wrote:
alicrimson wrote:I think a large part of this feeling is that the "excitement" of law school has worn out. Its no longer novel, we kind of have an idea of how stuff works, and many of us have realized that there are still really fun things in the world still that do not involve 6 page dissents by Scalia. I know I'm not really enjoying this semester as much as last semester. I'm not sure if this is because I despise con law or because its no longer special and fun. I enjoy the material (minus con law), the social stuff, and my classmates (I've been dating a fellow 1L since before school started. *gasp* different section. I'm not sure I could do same section.) I'm sorry I'm not much help but I can commiserate. I'm just trying to get through this semester, start studying early, and be happy that come May there will only be 2 years left until *hopefully* I can start making money. Sad, but true.


Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

If anything, I'm trying to fight complacency. The novelty and anxiety of law school has subsided; I think I have a fairly good idea of what is expected/required to prepare for class and do well on exams; and now I'm just kinda... going through the motions. Add to that the fact that the first month or two of the semester (minus LARW) doesn't really count for much, and it's almost been a struggle to stay motivated at times.

I'm still on top of all my readings and everything, but I'm definitely not as excited/tense as last semester. But I'm sure that'll change as finals start to creep into the schedule.


That's interesting. I'm much more tense this semester than last, but I do know what you mean by "going through the motions." I did fairly well, so I feel a constant pressure to do at least as well this semester. I've been checking my logged hours from this and last semester, and on average I'm studying 5-10 hours more per week than I did this time last year. It is taking a toll though. I feel lethargic and unmotivated (except for feeling panicked if I'm not studying), and absolutely need several cups of coffee to stay up, as well as "assistance" to go to bed. Law school problems, I guess.

Edit--Go to the gym regularly; it helps.


Because of my loss of motivation this semester, I was praying people in my section were like most of the people in this thread. However, they are probably more like this guy/ woman; and that is what scares the hell out of me. Still doesn't scare me enough to get in gunner mode yet.

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InnocuousDiatribe
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby InnocuousDiatribe » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:25 pm

yngblkgifted wrote:Because of my loss of motivation this semester, I was praying people in my section were like most of the people in this thread. However, they are probably more like this guy/ woman; and that is what scares the hell out of me. Still doesn't scare me enough to get in gunner mode yet.


Guy. I'd say it's not worth worrying about it too much. I'm probably an exceptional case because I'm at T2 trying to transfer to T14. When I come home I have to literally force myself to study, rather than turn on the TV and chill (edit--which is my first instinct actually).

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:39 pm

alicrimson wrote:I think a large part of this feeling is that the "excitement" of law school has worn out. Its no longer novel, we kind of have an idea of how stuff works, and many of us have realized that there are still really fun things in the world still that do not involve 6 page dissents by Scalia. I know I'm not really enjoying this semester as much as last semester. I'm not sure if this is because I despise con law or because its no longer special and fun. I enjoy the material (minus con law), the social stuff, and my classmates (I've been dating a fellow 1L since before school started. *gasp* different section. I'm not sure I could do same section.) I'm sorry I'm not much help but I can commiserate. I'm just trying to get through this semester, start studying early, and be happy that come May there will only be 2 years left until *hopefully* I can start making money. Sad, but true.


I think TITCR.

This post actually made me think about my friend's father who is a brain surgeon. I was talking to him about how nice it must be to be a M.D. He basically said that it was really cool when he first started practicing but that the excitement was largely gone now. Kind of depressing actually.

From the outside, though, we can't see this. People look at doctors, lawyers, and professionals in general and put their lives on a pedestal .

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spleenworship
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby spleenworship » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:22 pm

Law school sucks.

Yeah, I still like my classmates. Great friends, and the profs are all smart awesome people. And yeah, I still have to learn what they are throwing at me... but honestly, I wish reading into law was still an option. I just wish I could be a lawyer already. It is a noble profession, an important one, and one that can be satisfying. I have seen this first hand from friends who are lawyers. But even the ones who love their jobs agree law school was the worst thing that ever happened to them.

Once the first semester glow wears off you realize that you have learned the game, but for some awful reason they want you to do this shit for another 5 semesters, which seems so unreasonable.....

Yeah, there is a lot still to learn, but I really wish I didn't have to learn it through cold calls and comprehensive finals that you spend the next two years being judged by.... ugh.

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Naked Dude
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Naked Dude » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:40 pm

ran12 wrote:Law school is like the most annoying, soul sucking kid you know on roids.


I imagine 2L is marginally better, at least in the sense that the variety of people in your classes makes it feel slightly less high school.

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Naked Dude
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Naked Dude » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:53 pm

portaprokoss wrote:People come to law school b/c it's the ultimate intellectual cock-measure


I find this to be far, far, far from the truth. People may believe this, but it's not true. Law school is merely the easiest intellectual cock-measure in terms of barriers to entry and lay prestige. Yes, despite all the lawyer jokes I've found that, incredibly, a lot of people are actually impressed by a J.D. and seem to think it implies a certain level of intelligence. You major in anything, take a 4 hour standardized test, boom-law school. The smartest graduate students I know are not in law school, hell most of the smartest people I know in general aren't in law school.

On the whole, I enjoy law school. In terms of the material, it's easier than a lot of classes I took in college--it's the curve that makes things hard. I'm not going to be so arrogant as to say I think it's easy, but it's nowhere near as difficult as I was led to expect. My doctrinal classes are most stimulating when we talk about policy (e.g. I find Contracts II infinitely more interesting than the nitty-gritty tedium of learning archaic consideration doctrines, etc. It's gone from my least favorite class to my favorite).

I so intensely hate writing programs that presume to "teach" writing. Writing (and maybe this is true to an extent for learning anything) is all about deep individual engagement. My LRW book is ok, but I'd be more satisfied with the program giving us a stack of appellate briefs to read and mimic, and go through several drafts in workshop (instead of lecture). Writing is sort of like language instruction--you need a lot of immersion and exposure to get good, and it's not conducive to the lecture format. Another parallel is the grade pressure--the means of evaluating language skills for a grade in most classes is at odds with what the pedagogy should be. Quantifying language or writing skill acquisition, at least as it's done in practice, is usually bogus. Yeah, I know, we need to evaluate people somehow, but I still hate it. I feel that, like I feel about language classes, all writing classes should be pass/fail. We are all graduate students. The idea that we would not take it seriously without a grade is an insulting presumption. Ideally writing "class" would instead be independent study and practice, with frequent workshopping and evaluations. That is my czar of the universe position. I so intensely hate graded LRW.

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johansantana21
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby johansantana21 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:58 pm

No one is impressed by a JD. People use the school you graduated from, your grades from said school, and your jobs as a way of measuring your intelligence.

So JD from a good school, good grades, prestigious firm --> oh that lawyer be ballin`

JD by itself is nothing.

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Naked Dude
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Naked Dude » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:05 pm

ilovesf wrote:this semester sucks. i find myself needing more and more breaks from school. i've taken up going out to lunch more often. for some reason it really cheers me up. it's the little things like that that seem to help me feel better.


Even above grades, mental health is numero uno. I've taken to little things to help me. I go to different places, farther away from the law school when I have time, to grab lunch so my world doesn't feel so small (going school to home gets depressing after a while).

One thing that really, really helped my blues was taking a walk around the campus, and walking home a different way. Maybe I'm just a sadsack, but there's something depressing about walking the same way every morning and afternoon. I found that literally seeing the campus and my neighborhood from a different perspective gave me some perspective.

One mental hack I've been trying (since I live fairly close to school) is walking home a roundabout way. It makes your world seem really small when school and home are so close. It's like the more I walk, the more I'm symbolically leaving school at school. When I take a long walk home, it clears my mind and lets me leave school behind.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:14 pm

Naked Dude wrote:
portaprokoss wrote:People come to law school b/c it's the ultimate intellectual cock-measure


I find this to be far, far, far from the truth. People may believe this, but it's not true. Law school is merely the easiest intellectual cock-measure in terms of barriers to entry and lay prestige. Yes, despite all the lawyer jokes I've found that, incredibly, a lot of people are actually impressed by a J.D. and seem to think it implies a certain level of intelligence. You major in anything, take a 4 hour standardized test, boom-law school. The smartest graduate students I know are not in law school, hell most of the smartest people I know in general aren't in law school.

On the whole, I enjoy law school. In terms of the material, it's easier than a lot of classes I took in college--it's the curve that makes things hard. I'm not going to be so arrogant as to say I think it's easy, but it's nowhere near as difficult as I was led to expect. My doctrinal classes are most stimulating when we talk about policy (e.g. I find Contracts II infinitely more interesting than the nitty-gritty tedium of learning archaic consideration doctrines, etc. It's gone from my least favorite class to my favorite).

I so intensely hate writing programs that presume to "teach" writing. Writing (and maybe this is true to an extent for learning anything) is all about deep individual engagement. My LRW book is ok, but I'd be more satisfied with the program giving us a stack of appellate briefs to read and mimic, and go through several drafts in workshop (instead of lecture). Writing is sort of like language instruction--you need a lot of immersion and exposure to get good, and it's not conducive to the lecture format. Another parallel is the grade pressure--the means of evaluating language skills for a grade in most classes is at odds with what the pedagogy should be. Quantifying language or writing skill acquisition, at least as it's done in practice, is usually bogus. Yeah, I know, we need to evaluate people somehow, but I still hate it. I feel that, like I feel about language classes, all writing classes should be pass/fail. We are all graduate students. The idea that we would not take it seriously without a grade is an insulting presumption. Ideally writing "class" would instead be independent study and practice, with frequent workshopping and evaluations. That is my czar of the universe position. I so intensely hate graded LRW.


I actually never really thought about it, but this is so true and would improve the class soo much.

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Naked Dude
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Naked Dude » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:16 pm

johansantana21 wrote:No one is impressed by a JD. People use the school you graduated from, your grades from said school, and your jobs as a way of measuring your intelligence.

So JD from a good school, good grades, prestigious firm --> oh that lawyer be ballin`

JD by itself is nothing.


I think you're correcting my mere observation with your own normative standards. I'm just describing the J.D. perception based on my own family background and upbringing (and home social circle), not among people who should know better. Among my peers and people who will have the greatest impact on my career, I'm sure you're right
Last edited by Naked Dude on Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:17 pm

johansantana21 wrote:No one is impressed by a JD. People are only impressed by a MD. use the school you graduated from, your grades from said school, and your jobs as a way of measuring your intelligence.

So JD from a good school, good grades, prestigious firm --> oh that lawyer be ballin`

JD by itself is nothing.


FTFY

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Naked Dude
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Naked Dude » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:21 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:No one is impressed by a JD. People are only impressed by a MD. use the school you graduated from, your grades from said school, and your jobs as a way of measuring your intelligence.

So JD from a good school, good grades, prestigious firm --> oh that lawyer be ballin`

JD by itself is nothing.


FTFY


If for no other reason than their ability to take a beating. I would argue that all professional school is essentially a hazing ritual, but from what I've heard of M1, it makes 1L look like fingerpainting. Who cares.

Kimberly
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Kimberly » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:40 pm

Certainly, monotony is the antithesis of excitement. Unless you have absolutely found your "calling," which I gather very, very few people ever do (much like the statistically low probability of ever finding the ever-elusive true love), it is very important to stave off monotony to maintain some sense of excitement. When you ask things like, "what is it worth," someone else's answer just can't resonate with you. Finding happiness in your career pursuit is truly based upon two things: (1)your connection (or ability to connect) with the people engaged in that pursuit with you and (2)the value you personally identify in your pursuit. If you don't find happiness in your pursuit (which is, unfortunately, the most common scenario among ALL professions), then you have to find happiness outside of it. Get a freaking hobby that challenges you and excites you. Explore your surroundings. Do something that is meaningful to you. And, to support earlier sentiments and provide a glimmer of hope for you, law school may not be your calling but lawyering might be.... time will tell. Despite your no-income student status, it is a serious blessing to be a student. At least, that has been my experience. I can't wait to get back to school and I have already done a shit ton of it! Wearing what you want... studying where you want... working out when you want.... the autonomy you have with most hours of your day is priceless and something you WILL NOT HAVE AGAIN! So, please don't take it for granted. Please, go out and use that time you will never get back to do something you enjoy and stop dwelling on the fact that you are bored and disillusioned with law school... it is just such a waste!

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beachbum
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby beachbum » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:59 pm

For all of you wide-eyed, totally-can't-wait-for-law-school-lol 0Ls: this is not the thread/forum for you. Though we sure do appreciate your advice on law school.

LawMan20
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby LawMan20 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:01 am

Kimberly wrote:Certainly, monotony is the antithesis of excitement. Unless you have absolutely found your "calling," which I gather very, very few people ever do (much like the statistically low probability of ever finding the ever-elusive true love), it is very important to stave off monotony to maintain some sense of excitement. When you ask things like, "what is it worth," someone else's answer just can't resonate with you. Finding happiness in your career pursuit is truly based upon two things: (1)your connection (or ability to connect) with the people engaged in that pursuit with you and (2)the value you personally identify in your pursuit. If you don't find happiness in your pursuit (which is, unfortunately, the most common scenario among ALL professions), then you have to find happiness outside of it. Get a freaking hobby that challenges you and excites you. Explore your surroundings. Do something that is meaningful to you. And, to support earlier sentiments and provide a glimmer of hope for you, law school may not be your calling but lawyering might be.... time will tell. Despite your no-income student status, it is a serious blessing to be a student. At least, that has been my experience. I can't wait to get back to school and I have already done a shit ton of it! Wearing what you want... studying where you want... working out when you want.... the autonomy you have with most hours of your day is priceless and something you WILL NOT HAVE AGAIN! So, please don't take it for granted. Please, go out and use that time you will never get back to do something you enjoy and stop dwelling on the fact that you are bored and disillusioned with law school... it is just such a waste!


Well put.

Kimberly
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Kimberly » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:15 am

beachbum wrote:For all of you wide-eyed, totally-can't-wait-for-law-school-lol 0Ls: this is not the thread/forum for you. Though we sure do appreciate your advice on law school.


FYI, I have been through something at least equally as painful- Medical school AND residency- my perspective counts at least a little bit. So thank you for your jack-assness but it is misplaced.

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beachbum
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby beachbum » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:38 am

Kimberly wrote:
beachbum wrote:For all of you wide-eyed, totally-can't-wait-for-law-school-lol 0Ls: this is not the thread/forum for you. Though we sure do appreciate your advice on law school.


FYI, I have been through something at least equally as painful- Medical school AND residency- my perspective counts at least a little bit. So thank you for your jack-assness but it is misplaced.


Your sense of entitlement is refreshing. That's super that you've done other things, but this topic is specifically about law school. And while general academic advice might have a place in other forums and in other threads, this forum is just for law students, and this thread is just for the discussion of law school-related experiences. Medical school and residency is a completely different animal. So until you've actually completed your first semester of law school and can speak with a voice of experience/credibility, stick to lurking. Thanks.

Kimberly
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Kimberly » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:44 am

beachbum wrote:
Kimberly wrote:
beachbum wrote:For all of you wide-eyed, totally-can't-wait-for-law-school-lol 0Ls: this is not the thread/forum for you. Though we sure do appreciate your advice on law school.


FYI, I have been through something at least equally as painful- Medical school AND residency- my perspective counts at least a little bit. So thank you for your jack-assness but it is misplaced.


Your sense of entitlement is refreshing. That's super that you've done other things, but this topic is specifically about law school. And while general academic advice might have a place in other forums and in other threads, this forum is just for law students, and this thread is just for the discussion of law school-related experiences. Medical school and residency is a completely different animal. So until you've actually completed your first semester of law school and can speak with a voice of experience/credibility, stick to lurking. Thanks.


Wow, I really hope that all law students are as arrogant, narrow-minded, and bitterly unwilling to invite a wider perspective as you are. The fact that you really think that other depressed law students are the only people who can really provide an element of advice to another depressed law student shows an utter lack the awareness, insight, and skill required to actually excel in life. I am so sorry you are so socially retarded. Peace out. Enjoy your depressed closet and I hope you can find your answers in the solidarity of people only exactly like you. Moron.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:45 am

Kimberly wrote:
beachbum wrote:For all of you wide-eyed, totally-can't-wait-for-law-school-lol 0Ls: this is not the thread/forum for you. Though we sure do appreciate your advice on law school.


FYI, I have been through something at least equally as painful- Medical school AND residency- my perspective counts at least a little bit. So thank you for your jack-assness but it is misplaced.


It's so funny how different people are. If I had what it took to get into a mediocre med school, I would have done it. The profession seems so much more fulfilling than law. Why did you get out?

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beachbum
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby beachbum » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:57 am

Kimberly wrote:
beachbum wrote:
Kimberly wrote:
beachbum wrote:For all of you wide-eyed, totally-can't-wait-for-law-school-lol 0Ls: this is not the thread/forum for you. Though we sure do appreciate your advice on law school.


FYI, I have been through something at least equally as painful- Medical school AND residency- my perspective counts at least a little bit. So thank you for your jack-assness but it is misplaced.


Your sense of entitlement is refreshing. That's super that you've done other things, but this topic is specifically about law school. And while general academic advice might have a place in other forums and in other threads, this forum is just for law students, and this thread is just for the discussion of law school-related experiences. Medical school and residency is a completely different animal. So until you've actually completed your first semester of law school and can speak with a voice of experience/credibility, stick to lurking. Thanks.


Wow, I really hope that all law students are as arrogant, narrow-minded, and bitterly unwilling to invite a wider perspective as you are. The fact that you really think that other depressed law students are the only people who can really provide an element of advice to another depressed law student shows an utter lack the awareness, insight, and skill required to actually excel in life. I am so sorry you are so socially retarded. Peace out. Enjoy your depressed closet and I hope you can find your answers in the solidarity of people only exactly like you. Moron.


In a roundabout kind of way, this goes back to my point: you don't know if I'm a good representative of law students, because you don't know what law students are like. Because you aren't in law school. I'm not sure what's so difficult about this concept, or why you persist in posting in a forum which is strictly designated for law students.

You don't attend law school. You haven't spent the last 6 months reading/briefing cases, or getting cold-called, or outlining and preparing for finals, or studying the core 1L subjects, or writing memos, or, as far as I can tell, doing anything that would approximate this experience. Here, I'll be nice since you seem to be quick to anger/insults: I appreciate that you have difficult, professional-level experience. I have no doubt that it was tough to do what you've done, and that you have a lot of experience with academic rigor.

But law school is a completely different type of experience, and an experience which you know little about. And since you took the affirmative step of coming into a law school student forum to impart your wisdom, I'm calling you on your bullshit. Because, again, you are not a law student.

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johansantana21
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby johansantana21 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:57 am

Med school and residency? Did you finish getting your MD? If so why are you even coming to law school?

Kimberly
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Kimberly » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:58 am

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:
Kimberly wrote:
beachbum wrote:For all of you wide-eyed, totally-can't-wait-for-law-school-lol 0Ls: this is not the thread/forum for you. Though we sure do appreciate your advice on law school.


FYI, I have been through something at least equally as painful- Medical school AND residency- my perspective counts at least a little bit. So thank you for your jack-assness but it is misplaced.


It's so funny how different people are. If I had what it took to get into a mediocre med school, I would have done it. The profession seems so much more fulfilling than law. Why did you get out?


Well, I am not out yet. I still see patients every day. But, you are right, people are different. I love the idea of medicine and I have tremendous respect for my colleagues including my nurses and medical assistants... they all provide a vital service to our society. Many of my best friends are very fulfilled in medicine. But, I am not fulfilled. I personally find it utterly depressing to listen to everyone's woes day in and day out. I find it extremely frustrating to realize anew every 15 minutes that someone is sabotaging their own health and wellbeing. But most importantly, it is painstakingly awful to work everyday in a broken system and not have the power to improve the system. Moreover, I have learned about myself that I am a systems person. Systems are my focus. Many of my colleagues could give a shit about the broken system-- some of them can't even recognize that it is broken because they are too busy pondering the best treatment approach to such and such (which bores the hell outta me). I like working with large systems, working with policy, and writing. I am pursuing health law and health policy with the same hope that we all have- to find fulfillment. I hope it works out for me this time... we shall see.




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