What is up with this semester?!

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sillyboots
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby sillyboots » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:54 pm

wow, this is TLS circle jerk at its finest. I am in my second semester too and I also am feeling complacent and frustrated at times, but holy shit you guys sound like the biggest bunch of whiners. Telling people with MDs that they can't comment on difficult academic experiences? Get over yourselves. It is just law school. Telling 0Ls, "now that I am a wise law student of 6 months, I can impart the wisdom that you will never succeed" lol. You must sound stupid to adults who know that life goes on and has real problems besides the law school blues. Plus, I promise you will all be back on here next year as 2Ls saying "1Ls shouldn't comment, they don't understand" and then in 3 years as lawyers "law students shouldn't comment, they don't understand"

Go see a fucking movie, go to the gym, take a break, earn a B if it saves your sanity, but please, get some fucking perspective you whiney brats.


First thing to notice is that the thread was made for the purpose of people talking about the things you're upset about. I really don't have a problem with people making threads about whatever they want. Some people in the thread have expressed gratitude about seeing the thread just because it made them feel better about their uneasy feelings this semester. Sure, maybe some people's complaints seemed weak or exaggerated, but if it's honestly how they feel or it helps them or others just to write it, no matter how silly it is, it's no reason to bust flying into the thread shitting on everyone and flexing.

FWIW while it went outside proper bounds here and there, I think it's fine for people to hold and express the opinion that someone in medical school shouldn't be commentating on and criticizing people's attitudes about something (s)he hasn't experienced. That's not to say that medical school isn't harder than law school, or that (s)he has a more developed perspective on being in school in general, but I think it is fair to say that the structure of them is different enough to assume that insight into one very well maybe not transferrable to the other. I would hold the same opinion of someone with 2 tours in 'nam with PTSD trying to tell someone with postpartum depression what it is and what to do. Sure, the vets problems maybe more hardcore, and they're both of a similar kind, but they're different enough to the point that the vet really doesn't have much room to comment. Accordingly, if that vet logs onto a postpartum depression forum to impart his wisdom, I would not be surprised or in disagreement to see him asked not to participate in the discussion.

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kwais
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby kwais » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:01 pm

sillyboots wrote:
wow, this is TLS circle jerk at its finest. I am in my second semester too and I also am feeling complacent and frustrated at times, but holy shit you guys sound like the biggest bunch of whiners. Telling people with MDs that they can't comment on difficult academic experiences? Get over yourselves. It is just law school. Telling 0Ls, "now that I am a wise law student of 6 months, I can impart the wisdom that you will never succeed" lol. You must sound stupid to adults who know that life goes on and has real problems besides the law school blues. Plus, I promise you will all be back on here next year as 2Ls saying "1Ls shouldn't comment, they don't understand" and then in 3 years as lawyers "law students shouldn't comment, they don't understand"

Go see a fucking movie, go to the gym, take a break, earn a B if it saves your sanity, but please, get some fucking perspective you whiney brats.


First thing to notice is that the thread was made for the purpose of people talking about the things you're upset about. I really don't have a problem with people making threads about whatever they want. Some people in the thread have expressed gratitude about seeing the thread just because it made them feel better about their uneasy feelings this semester. Sure, maybe some people's complaints seemed weak or exaggerated, but if it's honestly how they feel or it helps them or others just to write it, no matter how silly it is, it's no reason to bust flying into the thread shitting on everyone and flexing.

FWIW while it went outside proper bounds here and there, I think it's fine for people to hold and express the opinion that someone in medical school shouldn't be commentating on and criticizing people's attitudes about something (s)he hasn't experienced. That's not to say that medical school isn't harder than law school, or that (s)he has a more developed perspective on being in school in general, but I think it is fair to say that the structure of them is different enough to assume that insight into one very well maybe not transferrable to the other. I would hold the same opinion of someone with 2 tours in 'nam with PTSD trying to tell someone with postpartum depression what it is and what to do. Sure, the vets problems maybe more hardcore, and they're both of a similar kind, but they're different enough to the point that the vet really doesn't have much room to comment. Accordingly, if that vet logs onto a postpartum depression forum to impart his wisdom, I would not be surprised or in disagreement to see him asked not to participate in the discussion.


your reasonable response is reasonable. I guess I just feel that I am going through the exact same thing as you guys and what has helped me is to remember that life is long and that we will laugh at how seriously we are taking this now. However, I agree that people have the right to vent and I do it to. I meant neither to shit nor flex, merely to defend the poor doctor lady who I think was fairly nice to offer her thoughts and was met with pure lunacy.

sillyboots
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby sillyboots » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:07 pm

your reasonable response is reasonable. I guess I just feel that I am going through the exact same thing as you guys and what has helped me is to remember that life is long and that we will laugh at how seriously we are taking this now. However, I agree that people have the right to vent and I do it to. I meant neither to shit nor flex, merely to defend the poor doctor lady who I think was fairly nice to offer her thoughts and was met with pure lunacy.


I agree that some of the reactions to the doctor were over the top, and there are definitely hints of big exaggeration in this thread. Also, while I characterized your post crudely, you had some good points. I do think one solution to not enjoying law school is to think of it as three years of your life instead of three years of law school, and not take it so seriously (i.e., be willing to get that one B like you mentioned). Tough love has its power :}.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:14 pm

If it makes you feel better, the actual practice of law is very different than law school. At least in litigation, usually, but not always, the legal issues aren't very complex, and the difficulty is in marshalling the facts.

But if you're burning out because you are thinking this is all there is, just remember - this is just SCHOOL. Actual practice can be rewarding and fun (or soul devouring, depending on your job).

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spleenworship
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby spleenworship » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:17 pm

kwais wrote:
your reasonable response is reasonable. I guess I just feel that I am going through the exact same thing as you guys and what has helped me is to remember that life is long and that we will laugh at how seriously we are taking this now. However, I agree that people have the right to vent and I do it to. I meant neither to shit nor flex, merely to defend the poor doctor lady who I think was fairly nice to offer her thoughts and was met with pure lunacy.


kwais, I also have to say that I agree some of the people's responses to the MD were over the top in here. I just fall in the camp where I don't really want to hear his/her opinion- because this thread was about bitching about law school by law students in law school... It would be like having a bro come into a womens' health meeting to talk about contraception. It isn't that he can't have really good info (for all we know, he studied public health), but seriously, no woman wants to hear his opinion on it all that much.

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spleenworship
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby spleenworship » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:22 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:If it makes you feel better, the actual practice of law is very different than law school. At least in litigation, usually, but not always, the legal issues aren't very complex, and the difficulty is in marshalling the facts.

But if you're burning out because you are thinking this is all there is, just remember - this is just SCHOOL. Actual practice can be rewarding and fun (or soul devouring, depending on your job).


Thanks for this. This is what I am holding on to right now... actually being a lawyer and being done with this silly, seemingly endless, mind game. I mean, even if practice sucks, at least I get paid, as opposed to paying.

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Guchster
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Guchster » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:22 pm

spleenworship wrote:
I just fall in the camp where I don't really want to hear his/her opinion- because this thread was about bitching about law school by law students in law school... It would be like having a bro come into a womens' health meeting to talk about contraception. It isn't that he can't have really good info (for all we know, he studied public health), but seriously, no woman wants to hear his opinion on it all that much.


rad lulz wrote:Autism is a hell of a drug.

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spleenworship
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby spleenworship » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:28 pm

Guchster wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
I just fall in the camp where I don't really want to hear his/her opinion- because this thread was about bitching about law school by law students in law school... It would be like having a bro come into a womens' health meeting to talk about contraception. It isn't that he can't have really good info (for all we know, he studied public health), but seriously, no woman wants to hear his opinion on it all that much.


rad lulz wrote:Autism is a hell of a drug.


:lol: :roll: :lol: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ETA: also, isn't the bolded what just happened in congress the other day?

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romothesavior
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby romothesavior » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:11 pm

Law school is not hard. It is not a lot of work (at least not after 1L year). People who act like martyrs about the whole thing just annoy me.

What sucks about law school is how mundane, long, and pointless the entire experience is. I have learned almost nothing that will benefit me in practice, and I can't believe they make us do 3 years of this nonsense. I enjoyed it 1L year and found it to be somewhat interesting, but 2L year has been awful in every way, shape, and form. All I want to do is go out into practice and start doing it, but instead I have to continue to show up and twiddle my fingers. The thought of doing this for another year makes me want to crawl into a bottle of whiskey and not come out til graduation. Which might actually be the approach I take.

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Guchster
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Guchster » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:35 pm

spleenworship wrote: :lol: :roll: :lol: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:



Back away from the smileys...slowly. TYIA

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beachbum
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby beachbum » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:10 pm

kwais wrote:wow, this is TLS circle jerk at its finest. I am in my second semester too and I also am feeling complacent and frustrated at times, but holy shit you guys sound like the biggest bunch of whiners. Telling people with MDs that they can't comment on difficult academic experiences? Get over yourselves. It is just law school. Telling 0Ls, "now that I am a wise law student of 6 months, I can impart the wisdom that you will never succeed" lol. You must sound stupid to adults who know that life goes on and has real problems besides the law school blues. Plus, I promise you will all be back on here next year as 2Ls saying "1Ls shouldn't comment, they don't understand" and then in 3 years as lawyers "law students shouldn't comment, they don't understand"

Go see a fucking movie, go to the gym, take a break, earn a B if it saves your sanity, but please, get some fucking perspective you whiney brats.


Yikes. Step down from the soapbox and take a few deep breaths, d00d.

Also:

sillyboots wrote:FWIW while it went outside proper bounds here and there, I think it's fine for people to hold and express the opinion that someone in medical school shouldn't be commentating on and criticizing people's attitudes about something (s)he hasn't experienced. That's not to say that medical school isn't harder than law school, or that (s)he has a more developed perspective on being in school in general, but I think it is fair to say that the structure of them is different enough to assume that insight into one very well maybe not transferrable to the other. I would hold the same opinion of someone with 2 tours in 'nam with PTSD trying to tell someone with postpartum depression what it is and what to do. Sure, the vets problems maybe more hardcore, and they're both of a similar kind, but they're different enough to the point that the vet really doesn't have much room to comment. Accordingly, if that vet logs onto a postpartum depression forum to impart his wisdom, I would not be surprised or in disagreement to see him asked not to participate in the discussion.


This.

Geneva
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Geneva » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:31 am

sillyboots wrote:I think law school might be the only profession I've encountered where many (if not most) people in the profession agree that the worst part was the education. Maybe I just haven't spoken to enough people, but I rarely hear doctors say how much they hated med school, or professors say how much they hated grad school, but lawyers saying how much they hated law school is common place.

This isn't to say that being in school, even law school, doesn't have its unique luxuries. But I will say just speaking with people in law school and surveying the people around me, most people in law school seem to be less happy than they were before law school, regardless of their background. Even people who left slave-labor jobs to work through law school seem to be dragging. Law school really does seem to have a damper effect, putting a cloud even over your free time. Obviously, some don't experience this, but a lot of people do.

self-selection bias much?

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Always Credited
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Always Credited » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:44 am

I've like lawl sk00l from the start, and its gotten better every semester since. How so?


Fall 1L - badass law student, obvi. very impressive. me gusta. learn law from e&e's during last month.

Spring 1L - suns out in DC = study outside in law quad, acquire tan whilst observing unathletic nerds repeatedly throw frisbees into the ground.

Fall 2L - LOL ITS 2L! wait I need to do well in crim pro...wait, I actually like crim pro...acquire actual knowledge.

Spring 2L - LOL ITS 2L! zero fucks given. suns out in DC = drink beer outside in law quad, acquire tan whilst observing same nerds continue to suck at frisbee.

Fall 3L - ????

Spring 3L - Begin to profit.

Geneva
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Geneva » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:24 am

Kimberly wrote:Law school is not like med school in terms of content. I can't comment on how to write an exam or how to learn the rules or spot the issues or write the outlines; but, do you think the depression, the questions of whether or not you have chosen the right course for your life, the creeping regrets that you may be sacrificing your youth and/or lots of financial resources for something you are unsure of, are not common? They are common. That is the place of shared experience from which I offered advice. Obviously, just like I can't know what it is like to get a divorce or be diagnosed with cancer-- things I am often in the position of giving advice about-- I can't know what it is like to be a law student. This fact does not mean that there are not some elements of shared experience that we can all learn from. I felt bad for OP and I didn't want OP to lose hope... I was therefore only hoping to offer a nugget of hope and perspective from my own experiences. That said, anyone is welcome to disregard any of my unwelcome comments.


As an 0L, I really appreciated your comments and maturity. My 1L self will undoubtedly appreciate your feedback as well. But, I'll shut up. To all the law students ready to fire back at this comment: I know this is the wrong forum for my post. I'll refrain from further comments. Goodbye.

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Lasers
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Lasers » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:34 am

law school is why i rarely do anything fun on fridays anymore...or any day.

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PitchO20
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby PitchO20 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:02 pm

romothesavior wrote:Law school is not hard. It is not a lot of work (at least not after 1L year). People who act like martyrs about the whole thing just annoy me.

What sucks about law school is how mundane, long, and pointless the entire experience is. I have learned almost nothing that will benefit me in practice, and I can't believe they make us do 3 years of this nonsense. I enjoyed it 1L year and found it to be somewhat interesting, but 2L year has been awful in every way, shape, and form. All I want to do is go out into practice and start doing it, but instead I have to continue to show up and twiddle my fingers. The thought of doing this for another year makes me want to crawl into a bottle of whiskey and not come out til graduation. Which might actually be the approach I take.


QFT.

Top-Q
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Top-Q » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:03 pm

I came to law school to prove myself and performed very well 1L year. I thought that once I did well, I would be set.

But then reality hit me that I must constantly prove myself, constantly raise my corporate profile (journals, publications, events, etc). As a result, I'm working non-stop to battle feelings of inadequacy. I'm working non-stop just to keep my image up. It feels like I'm working non-stop just to keep afloat. It is ridiculous how much self-worth I attach to my work.

I don't feel like there's a healthy balance in my life. I'm studying on a Friday night, all day Saturday, and most of Sunday. My relationships with others are fading. I feel like I'm testy around others (less pleasant to be around). I'm working my ass off right now just to work my ass off even more once I graduate. BTW, the attorneys I summered with were not the most pleasant attorneys in big law. The thought of being around them all day, 70 hours a week is depressing. I don't doubt that their arrogance will rub off on me. I could already sense myself adopting their pessimism and asshole characteristics.

Law school has caused a few failed relationships that had potential, distance from my family, distance from my spiritual life.

The benefits: I'll most likely have a six-figure income in my mid twenties. Respect among my non-law peers, and a feeling of pride I guess. But I'm in the middle of my 2L year wondering if this was all worth it? I don't know what else I'd be doing if I didn't go to law school, but I know I'd probably be less miserable than I am now.

/questioning 2L rant

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Always Credited
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Always Credited » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:24 pm

Top-Q wrote:I came to law school to prove myself and performed very well 1L year. I thought that once I did well, I would be set.

But then reality hit me that I must constantly prove myself, constantly raise my corporate profile (journals, publications, events, etc). As a result, I'm working non-stop to battle feelings of inadequacy. I'm working non-stop just to keep my image up. It feels like I'm working non-stop just to keep afloat. It is ridiculous how much self-worth I attach to my work.

I don't feel like there's a healthy balance in my life. I'm studying on a Friday night, all day Saturday, and most of Sunday. My relationships with others are fading. I feel like I'm testy around others (less pleasant to be around). I'm working my ass off right now just to work my ass off even more once I graduate. BTW, the attorneys I summered with were not the most pleasant attorneys in big law. The thought of being around them all day, 70 hours a week is depressing. I don't doubt that their arrogance will rub off on me. I could already sense myself adopting their pessimism and asshole characteristics.

Law school has caused a few failed relationships that had potential, distance from my family, distance from my spiritual life.

The benefits: I'll most likely have a six-figure income in my mid twenties. Respect among my non-law peers, and a feeling of pride I guess. But I'm in the middle of my 2L year wondering if this was all worth it? I don't know what else I'd be doing if I didn't go to law school, but I know I'd probably be less miserable than I am now.

/questioning 2L rant



Foresaw this exact problem - realized I don't actually give a damn about making boatloads of money in my mid-20's, and realized that I attach self-worth to healthy and loving relationships with my fiancee and my family - went to law school instead to do what I want with my life - achieving said goal - continually happy with my decisions and thankful for opportunities.

profit.

adonai
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby adonai » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:15 pm

Top-Q wrote:I came to law school to prove myself and performed very well 1L year. I thought that once I did well, I would be set.

But then reality hit me that I must constantly prove myself, constantly raise my corporate profile (journals, publications, events, etc). As a result, I'm working non-stop to battle feelings of inadequacy. I'm working non-stop just to keep my image up. It feels like I'm working non-stop just to keep afloat. It is ridiculous how much self-worth I attach to my work.

I don't feel like there's a healthy balance in my life. I'm studying on a Friday night, all day Saturday, and most of Sunday. My relationships with others are fading. I feel like I'm testy around others (less pleasant to be around). I'm working my ass off right now just to work my ass off even more once I graduate. BTW, the attorneys I summered with were not the most pleasant attorneys in big law. The thought of being around them all day, 70 hours a week is depressing. I don't doubt that their arrogance will rub off on me. I could already sense myself adopting their pessimism and asshole characteristics.

Law school has caused a few failed relationships that had potential, distance from my family, distance from my spiritual life.

The benefits: I'll most likely have a six-figure income in my mid twenties. Respect among my non-law peers, and a feeling of pride I guess. But I'm in the middle of my 2L year wondering if this was all worth it? I don't know what else I'd be doing if I didn't go to law school, but I know I'd probably be less miserable than I am now.

/questioning 2L rant

How would your life be if you had not gotten the success you achieved? I guess it is a grass is greener on the other side thing. Many people would kill to be in your position. Personally, I feel all that you feel except I most likely will not get the money part.

keg411
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby keg411 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:20 pm

The rumors have always been that 2L is "work you to death" for a reason. I've been somewhat miserable this year, but I feel like my life direction is probably far improved by going to law school than not going.

To Top-Q: However, if you didn't like the attorneys at your 1L firm, why didn't you try to switch during OCI? Maybe you'd be happier if you knew you were going somewhere this summer that you were excited about. I know that thinking about this summer is definitely keeping me going right now.

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Guchster
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Guchster » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:54 pm

Top-Q wrote:I came to law school to prove myself and performed very well 1L year. I thought that once I did well, I would be set.

But then reality hit me that I must constantly prove myself, constantly raise my corporate profile (journals, publications, events, etc). As a result, I'm working non-stop to battle feelings of inadequacy. I'm working non-stop just to keep my image up. It feels like I'm working non-stop just to keep afloat. It is ridiculous how much self-worth I attach to my work.

I don't feel like there's a healthy balance in my life. I'm studying on a Friday night, all day Saturday, and most of Sunday. My relationships with others are fading. I feel like I'm testy around others (less pleasant to be around). I'm working my ass off right now just to work my ass off even more once I graduate. BTW, the attorneys I summered with were not the most pleasant attorneys in big law. The thought of being around them all day, 70 hours a week is depressing. I don't doubt that their arrogance will rub off on me. I could already sense myself adopting their pessimism and asshole characteristics.

Law school has caused a few failed relationships that had potential, distance from my family, distance from my spiritual life.

The benefits: I'll most likely have a six-figure income in my mid twenties. Respect among my non-law peers, and a feeling of pride I guess. But I'm in the middle of my 2L year wondering if this was all worth it? I don't know what else I'd be doing if I didn't go to law school, but I know I'd probably be less miserable than I am now.

/questioning 2L rant


I don't understand why you just don't put in less effort then?

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spleenworship
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby spleenworship » Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:40 pm

Guchster wrote:
Top-Q wrote:I came to law school to prove myself and performed very well 1L year. I thought that once I did well, I would be set.

But then reality hit me that I must constantly prove myself, constantly raise my corporate profile (journals, publications, events, etc). As a result, I'm working non-stop to battle feelings of inadequacy. I'm working non-stop just to keep my image up. It feels like I'm working non-stop just to keep afloat. It is ridiculous how much self-worth I attach to my work.

I don't feel like there's a healthy balance in my life. I'm studying on a Friday night, all day Saturday, and most of Sunday. My relationships with others are fading. I feel like I'm testy around others (less pleasant to be around). I'm working my ass off right now just to work my ass off even more once I graduate. BTW, the attorneys I summered with were not the most pleasant attorneys in big law. The thought of being around them all day, 70 hours a week is depressing. I don't doubt that their arrogance will rub off on me. I could already sense myself adopting their pessimism and asshole characteristics.

Law school has caused a few failed relationships that had potential, distance from my family, distance from my spiritual life.

The benefits: I'll most likely have a six-figure income in my mid twenties. Respect among my non-law peers, and a feeling of pride I guess. But I'm in the middle of my 2L year wondering if this was all worth it? I don't know what else I'd be doing if I didn't go to law school, but I know I'd probably be less miserable than I am now.

/questioning 2L rant


I don't understand why you just don't put in less effort then?


+1

Seriously, if what you are doing is making you unhappy, don't do it. Go work for a small firm in an area you are interested in for a few years (or PD/DA if you have time to work your resume to look good for them) and then open your own firm and work 40 or 50 hours a week. So what if you are making less than the plumber fixing your toliet, at least you have friends and family and a chance to live. I never understood the people at my old job (or now in law school with me) who worked 70 or more hours a week. Sure, they had all the best toys, but they never actually got to play with them. What is the point of having a sweet ass fifth wheel and ATVs if you never actually go hunting or camping? What is the point of having a 60" plasma when you only watch the TV for the superbowl? I'd rather have a 27" I can watch with my wife almost every night, and a tent and a good pair of boots I can take for a week in the woods with my kids.

Top-Q
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby Top-Q » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:14 pm

keg411 wrote:
To Top-Q: However, if you didn't like the attorneys at your 1L firm, why didn't you try to switch during OCI? Maybe you'd be happier if you knew you were going somewhere this summer that you were excited about. I know that thinking about this summer is definitely keeping me going right now.


I had a short window to accept an offer to come back. They strongly implied that it was basically a permanent offer. I didn't want to take my chances at OCI. In hindsight, I made a mistake. But hindsight is always 20/20. On the other hand, some of the attorneys were great to work with. But I will most likely end up working with the unpleasant ones.

adonai wrote:How would your life be if you had not gotten the success you achieved? I guess it is a grass is greener on the other side thing. Many people would kill to be in your position. Personally, I feel all that you feel except I most likely will not get the money part.


Sometimes I think that I got to this position at too young of an age. I regret not taking a few years off after undergrad. Right now the prospect of money and no time does not sound appealing to me at all.

Guchster wrote:I don't understand why you just don't put in less effort then?


I don't either. Kind of like how I don't understand why attorneys don't slow down after they meet the 2,000 hour mark. It's just expected of you.


spleenworship wrote:
+1

Seriously, if what you are doing is making you unhappy, don't do it. Go work for a small firm in an area you are interested in for a few years (or PD/DA if you have time to work your resume to look good for them) and then open your own firm and work 40 or 50 hours a week. So what if you are making less than the plumber fixing your toliet, at least you have friends and family and a chance to live. I never understood the people at my old job (or now in law school with me) who worked 70 or more hours a week. Sure, they had all the best toys, but they never actually got to play with them. What is the point of having a sweet ass fifth wheel and ATVs if you never actually go hunting or camping? What is the point of having a 60" plasma when you only watch the TV for the superbowl? I'd rather have a 27" I can watch with my wife almost every night, and a tent and a good pair of boots I can take for a week in the woods with my kids.


1) Working for a small firm does not guarantee better hours than working for a big firm. Further, you may summer for a small firm without any guarantee of them taking you back permanently.

2) Hanging your own shingle and 40/50 hour work weeks do not go together.

I'm with you on the financial part. I would much rather have lower pay and more time with the family, etc. Extra toys mean nothing to me. However, the way I looked at it coming into law school is that you don't really decide the amount of hours you work after you graduate. You may shoot only for small firm jobs and end up working the same number of hours that big law attorneys do with less pay.

My ultimate goal is to have a good balance and quality of life: Financial stability and a normal family life. Just because I don't achieve it right out of law school does not mean I'll never achieve it. I chose the big law route because it gives me the best chance of achieving that lifestyle in the long run: work big law a few years, pay down debt, lateral to a more reasonable job.

Believe me, if I could get a small firm job with reasonable hours that offered me less than half the salary that I would earn with big law, there is no question that I would take it. I just don't hear of people getting those jobs straight out of law school.

In the meantime, my biggest challenge is to stay positive and not allow my circumstances change who I am. I grew up living on food stamps and shopping at Goodwill. My father was gone all the time laboring for $15/hour at a construction site trying to support my family. My brothers and sister are in the same situation. One is unemployed, the other two are working for about $10/hour. All three of my siblings have families. They have time for their families, but they are constantly struggling financially. I figured that before I can have time for a family, I must establish myself financially. Hopefully it doesn't take too long.

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spleenworship
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Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby spleenworship » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:55 pm

Top-Q wrote:
keg411 wrote:
To Top-Q: However, if you didn't like the attorneys at your 1L firm, why didn't you try to switch during OCI? Maybe you'd be happier if you knew you were going somewhere this summer that you were excited about. I know that thinking about this summer is definitely keeping me going right now.


I had a short window to accept an offer to come back. They strongly implied that it was basically a permanent offer. I didn't want to take my chances at OCI. In hindsight, I made a mistake. But hindsight is always 20/20. On the other hand, some of the attorneys were great to work with. But I will most likely end up working with the unpleasant ones.

adonai wrote:How would your life be if you had not gotten the success you achieved? I guess it is a grass is greener on the other side thing. Many people would kill to be in your position. Personally, I feel all that you feel except I most likely will not get the money part.


Sometimes I think that I got to this position at too young of an age. I regret not taking a few years off after undergrad. Right now the prospect of money and no time does not sound appealing to me at all.

Guchster wrote:I don't understand why you just don't put in less effort then?


I don't either. Kind of like how I don't understand why attorneys don't slow down after they meet the 2,000 hour mark. It's just expected of you.


spleenworship wrote:
+1

Seriously, if what you are doing is making you unhappy, don't do it. Go work for a small firm in an area you are interested in for a few years (or PD/DA if you have time to work your resume to look good for them) and then open your own firm and work 40 or 50 hours a week. So what if you are making less than the plumber fixing your toliet, at least you have friends and family and a chance to live. I never understood the people at my old job (or now in law school with me) who worked 70 or more hours a week. Sure, they had all the best toys, but they never actually got to play with them. What is the point of having a sweet ass fifth wheel and ATVs if you never actually go hunting or camping? What is the point of having a 60" plasma when you only watch the TV for the superbowl? I'd rather have a 27" I can watch with my wife almost every night, and a tent and a good pair of boots I can take for a week in the woods with my kids.


1) Working for a small firm does not guarantee better hours than working for a big firm. Further, you may summer for a small firm without any guarantee of them taking you back permanently.

2) Hanging your own shingle and 40/50 hour work weeks do not go together.

I'm with you on the financial part. I would much rather have lower pay and more time with the family, etc. Extra toys mean nothing to me. However, the way I looked at it coming into law school is that you don't really decide the amount of hours you work after you graduate. You may shoot only for small firm jobs and end up working the same number of hours that big law attorneys do with less pay.

My ultimate goal is to have a good balance and quality of life: Financial stability and a normal family life. Just because I don't achieve it right out of law school does not mean I'll never achieve it. I chose the big law route because it gives me the best chance of achieving that lifestyle in the long run: work big law a few years, pay down debt, lateral to a more reasonable job.

Believe me, if I could get a small firm job with reasonable hours that offered me less than half the salary that I would earn with big law, there is no question that I would take it. I just don't hear of people getting those jobs straight out of law school.

In the meantime, my biggest challenge is to stay positive and not allow my circumstances change who I am. I grew up living on food stamps and shopping at Goodwill. My father was gone all the time laboring for $15/hour at a construction site trying to support my family. My brothers and sister are in the same situation. One is unemployed, the other two are working for about $10/hour. All three of my siblings have families. They have time for their families, but they are constantly struggling financially. I figured that before I can have time for a family, I must establish myself financially. Hopefully it doesn't take too long.


Good luck homey. I hear you.

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: What is up with this semester?!

Postby keg411 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:20 am

I had a short window to accept an offer to come back. They strongly implied that it was basically a permanent offer. I didn't want to take my chances at OCI. In hindsight, I made a mistake. But hindsight is always 20/20. On the other hand, some of the attorneys were great to work with. But I will most likely end up working with the unpleasant ones.


I worked before law school, and I want to give you some advice: don't go into your job like this. Seek out the attorneys that you liked working with last summer and make sure you get into their practice areas this summer. You know the firm from last summer, so stick with the people you like. Because if you go into your job thinking you're going to hate it, you will hate it and the attorneys will notice. This is your career -- find something fun about it since you chose to stay.

Worst case scenario, get your offer in hand and apply to firms as a 3L. If you have the grades, get LOR's together and start applying to clerkships (federal or state-level) as a way to get a different firm job/different legal job at somewhere you might be happier. The nice thing about clerkships is that you can still keep the offer from the firm and also look elsewhere when the time comes.




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