Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

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Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Yes
15
8%
No
34
19%
Maybe
48
26%
Only if it was a T14 or a full ride.
85
47%
 
Total votes: 182

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby Stanford4Me » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:32 pm

alicrimson wrote:I'm talking about accredited vs. non-accredited schools. I thought I made that clear but I suppose I did not. This may be a valid statistic that does not meet my anecdotal experience/general perception of what's going on but I think its fair to ask questions when something doesn't seem accurate. It was just a question. Relax.

:?

STLMizzou
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby STLMizzou » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:34 pm

If I was the one speaking I would simply say “Retake, ED UVA”, then drop the mic and walk out to the roar of applause like a boss.

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alicrimson
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby alicrimson » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:38 pm

STLMizzou wrote:If I was the one speaking I would simply say “Retake, ED UVA”, then drop the mic and walk out to the roar of applause like a boss.


This. This is the one. :D

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bk1
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:40 pm

alicrimson wrote:1L, yes. Fortunately, I have found a SA gig this summer. Does that mean everything will fall into place for next summer? Not necessarily. I just question some of the general assumptions that get thrown around here and appreciate when kind folks such as bk1 can shed some light on what is going on with some pretty representative data. As bk1 pointed out, the folks I know who have gone through law school do not comprise the bottom of the rankings so this whole 58% thing is news to me and even more of a reason why I should ask for clarification. I never said anyone was wrong. I just said I questioned. I think its fair to ask if one has doubts.


Fair enough. Can't tell over the internet if you're trying to be snarky, but in any case my apologies for being dickish.

The legal market really is that bad and TLSers are generally not exposed to it since very few people from bad schools actually post here (let alone post regularly).

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bk1
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:41 pm

blowhard wrote:Just convey the facts. Contrary to popular belief, not all lawyers make $$$ and not all lawyers find jobs. The odds of both are better at some schools than others. Like any other major decision, they should do their due diligence and weigh the potential benefits against the risks and their specific circumstances.


This about sums up how I'd explain it.

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romothesavior
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:46 pm

blowhard wrote:Just convey the facts. Contrary to popular belief, not all lawyers make $$$ and not all lawyers find jobs. The odds of both are better at some schools than others. Like any other major decision, they should do their due diligence and weigh the potential benefits against the risks and their specific circumstances.

I am giving a speech to students tomorrow and this is the approach I'm taking. You don't need to start making a compelling argument against law school at this point. All you need to do is awaken them to the realities, and then let them go figure it out from there. I'm going to say, "Don't go to law school because you don't have anything better to do, and don't go to law school because you think it is a path to good money. For most law students it is not. Heck, only about 50% of law students even get jobs as lawyers upon graduation." I'll leave it at that. Hopefully this will jolt them into doing some due diligence and decide for themselves what the appropriate route to take is.

If they are still looking to do something stupid with their futures at that point, then they can come here to TLS where me and rad will really let them have it. :lol:

LawMan20
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby LawMan20 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:02 pm

romothesavior wrote:
blowhard wrote:Just convey the facts. Contrary to popular belief, not all lawyers make $$$ and not all lawyers find jobs. The odds of both are better at some schools than others. Like any other major decision, they should do their due diligence and weigh the potential benefits against the risks and their specific circumstances.

I am giving a speech to students tomorrow and this is the approach I'm taking. You don't need to start making a compelling argument against law school at this point. All you need to do is awaken them to the realities, and then let them go figure it out from there. I'm going to say, "Don't go to law school because you don't have anything better to do, and don't go to law school because you think it is a path to good money. For most law students it is not. Heck, only about 50% of law students even get jobs as lawyers upon graduation." I'll leave it at that. Hopefully this will jolt them into doing some due diligence and decide for themselves what the appropriate route to take is.

If they are still looking to do something stupid with their futures at that point, then they can come here to TLS where me and rad will really let them have it. :lol:


I thought Rad doesn't poast here anymore...?

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johansantana21
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby johansantana21 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:04 pm

Depends. Do I like the undergrad student?

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romothesavior
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:03 pm

LawMan20 wrote:I thought Rad doesn't poast here anymore...?

Why are you so worried about it?

rad lulz
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby rad lulz » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:07 pm

alicrimson wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
alicrimson wrote:I'm talking about accredited vs. non-accredited schools. I thought I made that clear but I suppose I did not. This may be a valid statistic that does not meet my anecdotal experience/general perception of what's going on but I think its fair to ask questions when something doesn't seem accurate.

It's a fair question, but you are a 1L, no? Wait til this time next year when 2/3 of your classmates (and maybe even yourself) are scrambling for a 2L gig or have only found something that will last them through the summer, at which point they must resume the mad dash to get something before graduation.


1L, yes. Fortunately, I have found a SA gig this summer. Does that mean everything will fall into place for next summer? Not necessarily. I just question some of the general assumptions that get thrown around here and appreciate when kind folks such as bk1 can shed some light on what is going on with some pretty representative data. As bk1 pointed out, the folks I know who have gone through law school do not comprise the bottom of the rankings so this whole 58% thing is news to me and even more of a reason why I should ask for clarification. I never said anyone was wrong. I just said I questioned. I think its fair to ask if one has doubts.

The venerable Grizz (RIP) made this pretty good poast about it

rad lulz
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby rad lulz » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:11 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ripple6783
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby Ripple6783 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:23 pm

shoeshine wrote:This has come up several times in other threads. I am not sure how other people feel about it so I wanted to get some hard data.

I am going to speak to the Pre-Law society at my undergrad in a couple weeks. I want to tell them the truth but I feel like the bearer of bad news.

I am at a T14 and things have worked out great for me (so far) but I am not sure I would recommend that others pursue a law degree. Even if you are passionate about the law you really have no idea what you are getting yourself into. That aspect combined with the potential debt and abysmal job market have made me believe it would be wrong to recommend law school generally. I think on a case by case basis it is a smart idea but I don't think I would endorse going without qualifying my endorsement with many cautions. I am especially concerned because many of the students from my undergrad end up in T2 and TTT law schools.


I think one solid piece of "Step One" advice for these kids would be the following:

Try very, very hard to find some sort of job as an intern/paralegal type thing at a small law firm for a year after you graduate. Use that year to study for and re-take the LSAT if you didn't score high enough to get into a good school the first go round.

This will do several things for you:

1. Opportunity to figure out if you think you'll actually like working as a real lawyer (not as a litigator in a court room with Demi Moore as your co-counsel)

2. Looks really good on resume when applying for 1L SA's (personal experience; they loved it, and it gave me something easy to discuss for any amount of time during the interview process). Also, lets you re-take LSAT while doing something productive.

3. Lets you essentially take a year off without there being an unexplainable gap in you resume. If it doesn't work out; you can go look for a normal job and tell them you were doing that for a year while considering LS. If it does work out, then see #2. And, the work won't be hard and the hours won't be demanding - so you can enjoy the year off too. You won't be bumming it working lifts in CO, but you can't always get what you want (which should be to ski every day or live on a yacht unless you're an idiot).

Downside: You probably won't support yourself, so mom and dad are going to have to chip in for at least one more year.

I followed this advice myself after being rejected from the school I originally wanted. Now I'm at a way better school (smoked the LSAT the second go around) and am ranked very highly into the top 10% of my class after 1st semester. A lot of that success can conclusively be linked to the time I spent in that year working reading stuff about how to succeed in LS on this website.

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red_owl
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby red_owl » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:42 pm

YHSCCN or bust.

als2011
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby als2011 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:59 am

To gather more useful information, this post should request that you report your year in law school (0/1/2/3 L) or your current place within the legal profession along with your vote.

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romothesavior
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:58 am

als2011 wrote:To gather more useful information, this post should request that you report your year in law school (0/1/2/3 L) or your current place within the legal profession along with your vote.

Im a 2L. I'd recommend it to the right people in the right situation for the right price. Unfortunately, many people are not right and are not going in the right situations at the right price.

03121202698008
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:05 am

blowhard wrote:Just convey the facts. Contrary to popular belief, not all lawyers make $$$ and not all lawyers find jobs. The odds of both are better at some schools than others. Like any other major decision, they should do their due diligence and weigh the potential benefits against the risks and their specific circumstances.


2L

keg411
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby keg411 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:07 am

romothesavior wrote:
als2011 wrote:To gather more useful information, this post should request that you report your year in law school (0/1/2/3 L) or your current place within the legal profession along with your vote.

Im a 2L. I'd recommend it to the right people in the right situation for the right price. Unfortunately, many people are not right and are not going in the right situations at the right price.


All of the above.

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crossarmant
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby crossarmant » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:12 am

romothesavior wrote:Im a 2L. I'd recommend it to the right people in the right situation for the right price. Unfortunately, many people are not right and are not going in the right situations at the right price.


Agreed, 1L. I would recommend it to some people: those who have worked in the legal field and have an idea of what they're getting themselves into. I've run in to too many people at my TT who are here simply because they couldn't think of anything else to do, they didn't want to be done with school, etc. I even met one person who came here because he got a flier and thought "Hmm... cool, yeah, I'll do it." I think working in the field, if even for 1 year helps out a lot on what to expect, especially if it's with a solo.

That said, I'd also tell them to be incredibly selective with where they choose to attend. Some schools are more worthwhile than others regardless of rankings, etc. I'd also tell them to follow the guides for 1L success that are posted on here and follow them. Explain that median at most schools is not a good place to be.

All that said, I think law school is a worthwhile endeavor for some people but most are here on misguided reasons and wind up hating the work and career.

goodolgil
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby goodolgil » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:54 pm

I would also caution people with no/crappy WE and/or unimpressive background from going. I finished 1L year well into the top 10% at Michigan (and this is not a reflection on Michigan, people did well here but almost everyone has an impressive background) and still struggled a job. A lot of this was surely bad interview skills, but a lot of it was also having really nothing impressive on my resume.

If I didn't win the grades lottery I would have been fucked.

shoeshine
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby shoeshine » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:23 pm

goodolgil wrote:I would also caution people with no/crappy WE and/or unimpressive background from going. I finished 1L year well into the top 10% at Michigan (and this is not a reflection on Michigan, people did well here but almost everyone has an impressive background) and still struggled a job. A lot of this was surely bad interview skills, but a lot of it was also having really nothing impressive on my resume.

If I didn't win the grades lottery I would have been fucked.

I think this is an important point. I want to try to explain this to them.

I am afraid that when I talk to these undergrads they are going to look at my luck and assume they will have the same.

However, I attribute my 1L SA almost exclusively to my corporate finance W/E. I don't want them to assume that coming to a good school guarantees you anything. It doesn't.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby Stanford4Me » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:26 pm

As a student who went straight through with lots of friends who went straight through who are all gainfully employed at V20 firms, I don't think going straight through is as negative as people think. Personally, it would have been a waste of time for me.

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romothesavior
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:28 pm

I am walking into my undergrad right now to go talk to some students about law school. God help me.

shoeshine
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby shoeshine » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:32 pm

romothesavior wrote:I am walking into my undergrad right now to go talk to some students about law school. God help me.

God Speed. Tell us how it goes afterwards.

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MachineLemon
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby MachineLemon » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:18 pm

shoeshine wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I am walking into my undergrad right now to go talk to some students about law school. God help me.

God Speed. Tell us how it goes afterwards.

+1

May you crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women. Also, do let us know if you think you got through to them.

keg411
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Re: Would you recommend going to law school to undergrads?

Postby keg411 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:08 pm

Stanford4Me wrote:As a student who went straight through with lots of friends who went straight through who are all gainfully employed at V20 firms, I don't think going straight through is as negative as people think. Personally, it would have been a waste of time for me.


I think for a certain segment of people it's a maturity thing. Do I think it's universal? No. There are plenty of straight-throughs that I know here that are extremely successful. But I think there is a pretty big contingent of people who are better off working for a bit. I also think it's different at higher ranked schools then at lower ranked schools because you're less likely to find people who went as an extension of undergrad.




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