How would you argue against lowered grade?

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spleenworship
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How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:00 pm

If your prof told you, 5 weeks after grades were posted, that he has to lower you a full letter grade because he made a mistake while grading, and you wanted to fight it, what would YOUR arguments to the Dean be?

I already thought of:

1) I applied to jobs thinking I was top third, now I will have wasted those hours of effort.
2) I stayed in school because I thought I would keep my scholly, which is significantly less likely now.
3) Lowering my grade after 5 weeks is simply unfair, and I should not be punished for someone else's mistake.

Anything else anyone would argue?

rad lulz
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby rad lulz » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:00 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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spleenworship
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:02 pm

rad lulz wrote:Dude you're just boned. They don't care about you.


I am aware that I am likely boned. I am going to make the attempt anyway. So, given I am going to put in this effort, anyway, what else would anyone recommend arguing?

MrAnon
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby MrAnon » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:10 pm

2, and you don't even have to cite the scholarship. The argument is, you stayed in school because you made a certain GPA, period. Now you believe your prospects are much worse, and only after the school took your money, and you were under the impression that all grading decisions were final, which surely is plastered everywhere in your school.

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spleenworship
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:16 pm

MrAnon wrote:2, and you don't even have to cite the scholarship. The argument is, you stayed in school because you made a certain GPA, period. Now you believe your prospects are much worse, and only after the school took your money, and you were under the impression that all grading decisions were final, which surely is plastered everywhere in your school.


I see what you are saying, but I was planning on mentioning the NYT thing on scholarships to put them on the defensive about taking mine away. Too far?

Riles246
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby Riles246 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:19 pm

nevermind
Last edited by Riles246 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ggibelli
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby ggibelli » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:19 pm

you should egg the professors house

NotMyRealName09
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:11 pm

Equitable estoppel.

rad lulz
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby rad lulz » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:14 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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johansantana21
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:14 pm

5 weeks after?!!? out this fucking ttt school.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:42 pm

If this is true, it is bullshit. A grading mistake that resulted in a lower grade should be raised because the mistake prejudiced the student, but a mistake that resulted in a higher grade should not be lowered because the mistake did not prejudice the student.

I'm sort of amazed at the professor who would do this instead of take note of his or her error and ensure they don't do it again, and leave it at that. To lower a grade after 5 weeks, when the student has likely made representations to multiple potential employers about grades, is just bad form.

Boo to your professor. Boo I say. The administration should be informed and, if anything, discipline the professor for sloppy work. But the unwitting student should not be made to suffer for the professor's mistake.

Call it a fairness argument or whatever. I prefer to call it "bullshit."

Also, read your school's grading policy. If it is silent on this issue (it likely is), say that as the grading policy is silent on the issue, the proper course is to do nothing.

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spleenworship
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:19 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:
Call it a fairness argument or whatever. I prefer to call it "bullshit."

Also, read your school's grading policy. If it is silent on this issue (it likely is), say that as the grading policy is silent on the issue, the proper course is to do nothing.


That last is a good argument. Thanks.

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spleenworship
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:20 pm

johansantana21 wrote:5 weeks after?!!? out this fucking ttt school.


Now that they have left me below median? Lol!

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shepdawg
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby shepdawg » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:17 pm

That is terrible. I would talk to the professor first, and ask him to stop being an asshole. I can almost 100% guarantee you that the professor talked to the dean about the error prior to lowering your grade, and he got the dean's blessing already. This means that going to the dean is a lost cause. He will listen to you, but nothing will change. I think the options you listed are worthless, and I would start with "I've contacted _____, ______, & _____ about adding this school to the list of law schools being sued for fraud."

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:41 pm

Request your tuition be refunded so that you can drop out. You made a calculated decision based on what your grades were, and now they have changed the equation.

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glitter178
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby glitter178 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:45 pm

jesus. i would lose my shit if this happened to me. i hate your professor for you.

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dresden doll
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby dresden doll » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:50 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:If this is true, it is bullshit. A grading mistake that resulted in a lower grade should be raised because the mistake prejudiced the student, but a mistake that resulted in a higher grade should not be lowered because the mistake did not prejudice the student.

I'm sort of amazed at the professor who would do this instead of take note of his or her error and ensure they don't do it again, and leave it at that. To lower a grade after 5 weeks, when the student has likely made representations to multiple potential employers about grades, is just bad form.

Boo to your professor. Boo I say. The administration should be informed and, if anything, discipline the professor for sloppy work. But the unwitting student should not be made to suffer for the professor's mistake.

Call it a fairness argument or whatever. I prefer to call it "bullshit."

Also, read your school's grading policy. If it is silent on this issue (it likely is), say that as the grading policy is silent on the issue, the proper course is to do nothing.


Cosigned.

seattlegirl
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby seattlegirl » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:47 pm

spleenworship wrote:
NotMyRealName09 wrote:
Call it a fairness argument or whatever. I prefer to call it "bullshit."

Also, read your school's grading policy. If it is silent on this issue (it likely is), say that as the grading policy is silent on the issue, the proper course is to do nothing.


That last is a good argument. Thanks.


This is a good argument! But I might try to use case law to bolster support for this argument. Possibly, you could try to analogize your situation to contract law regarding how to settle ambiguities (since the grading policy is effectively a rule that you agreed to but that the school drafted...so it is effectively part of the contract for you attending the school).

By looking at --LinkRemoved--, you can follow the "golden rule" typical 3 prong approach to resolve this ambiguity (which almost certainly will not help in your situation since there is likely not enough information to gather what the intent was), and then apply the "contra proferentem rule," which indicates that ambiguities "should be interpreted against: The party who prepared the contract (eg for standard form contracts, which are usually offered on a 'take it or leave it' basis)...."

If it were me, I would find the cases that support this approach. I might also try to find some cases involving a similar circumstance at another school that was decided for the student (I have to imagine that it exists).

Hope this helps. This stinks that they plan to lower your grade. :shock:

sillyboots
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby sillyboots » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:55 pm

Careful with the 'case law' approach.. professors and administration love to remind students that they're law students, not lawyers. I would be a lot more likely to think a student was just trying to play law and order if they started using case law to argue what is an administrative problem.

I would just emphasize what a personal (already told your friends and family) and professional (already applied to places, etc.) embarrassment this would be. Maybe I'm wrong but I've found throughout life it's worth trying to be sincere before you try being angry. I agree that the grade policy thing is a good argument, too.

If all else fails, be sure to out them here and they shall forever live in the halls of TLS shame.

LawMan20
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby LawMan20 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm

seattlegirl wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
NotMyRealName09 wrote:
Call it a fairness argument or whatever. I prefer to call it "bullshit."

Also, read your school's grading policy. If it is silent on this issue (it likely is), say that as the grading policy is silent on the issue, the proper course is to do nothing.


That last is a good argument. Thanks.


This is a good argument! But I might try to use case law to bolster support for this argument. Possibly, you could try to analogize your situation to contract law regarding how to settle ambiguities (since the grading policy is effectively a rule that you agreed to but that the school drafted...so it is effectively part of the contract for you attending the school).

By looking at --LinkRemoved--, you can follow the "golden rule" typical 3 prong approach to resolve this ambiguity (which almost certainly will not help in your situation since there is likely not enough information to gather what the intent was), and then apply the "contra proferentem rule," which indicates that ambiguities "should be interpreted against: The party who prepared the contract (eg for standard form contracts, which are usually offered on a 'take it or leave it' basis)...."

If it were me, I would find the cases that support this approach. I might also try to find some cases involving a similar circumstance at another school that was decided for the student (I have to imagine that it exists).

Hope this helps. This stinks that they plan to lower your grade. :shock:


Definitely this. +1,000,000. And if they say that the grading scheme or your grades weren't a part of any contract, you'll definitely want to sue for promissory estoppel. Promissory estoppel is constituted by a promise which induced action or forbearance on the part of the promisee or a third party; the promisor could have reasonably expected to induce such action or forbearance; and injustice can only be avoided by enforcement of the promise.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:13 pm

You got really screwed here. If this was me I would argue this out till the school was forced to change the grade back or face some serious ATL/ABA ridicule on top of possible litigation. Bluffing that you want your tuition back because you only paid it based on what they represented your grades were to you and basically all firms you applied to with those grades will look pretty badly on a "Oh, sorry, I actually have a whole letter grade lower there. Oh, and did I say I am top ___%? I meant it was about 8-10% lower." Your scholarship retention chances were misrepresented at the time you paid for second semester tuition. Your job chances were misrepresented. Your journal chances were misrepresented. Your transfer chances were misrepresented. Basically you paid second semester tuition based on a certain picture the school gave you of your success, then they changed it, so you should be able to change your actions of paying accordingly.

A dean won't want to lose x amount of dollars in exchange for some grade they really don't care about. Just my .02.

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Guchster
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby Guchster » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:25 pm

seattlegirl wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
NotMyRealName09 wrote:
Call it a fairness argument or whatever. I prefer to call it "bullshit."

Also, read your school's grading policy. If it is silent on this issue (it likely is), say that as the grading policy is silent on the issue, the proper course is to do nothing.


That last is a good argument. Thanks.


This is a good argument! But I might try to use case law to bolster support for this argument. Possibly, you could try to analogize your situation to contract law regarding how to settle ambiguities (since the grading policy is effectively a rule that you agreed to but that the school drafted...so it is effectively part of the contract for you attending the school).

By looking at --LinkRemoved--, you can follow the "golden rule" typical 3 prong approach to resolve this ambiguity (which almost certainly will not help in your situation since there is likely not enough information to gather what the intent was), and then apply the "contra proferentem rule," which indicates that ambiguities "should be interpreted against: The party who prepared the contract (eg for standard form contracts, which are usually offered on a 'take it or leave it' basis)...."

If it were me, I would find the cases that support this approach. I might also try to find some cases involving a similar circumstance at another school that was decided for the student (I have to imagine that it exists).

Hope this helps. This stinks that they plan to lower your grade. :shock:


lol'd at DLA Piper.

The school can do whatever it wants to do. You can argue until you turn blue in the face. Nothing you say is going to convince them to change your grade minus Obama bitchslapping the professor or a good beej. I'm really sorry to hear this though, that really sucks and I feel really bad for you.

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spleenworship
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:36 pm

Thanks guys, but I am aware of promissory estoppel: my only good grade last semester was in Ks. :)

During negotiations I mentioned this concept, as well as reliance. They seemed receptive. It appears they will not change my grade... The calculation error was severe and not the only one- if they leave them intact the whole curve would be off. However they have agreed to look at the scholly stips, and obtain an externship or internship for me if I cannot obtain one for myself for this summer.

So it ain't great, but it ain't awful. And since looking at my exam, it appears I deserve the lower grade.

A sincere thank you to anyone who posted sincerely in the thread.

I think it'll be ok. We'll find out in a few days. But if I can keep my scholly, I think it'll be worth it to stay.

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Cupidity
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby Cupidity » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:46 pm

spleenworship wrote:2) I stayed in school because I thought I would keep my scholly, which is significantly less likely now.



That sounds like detrimental reliance and negligence. Tell them the scholarship stays or you file an ATL worthy suit.

Younger Abstention
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Re: How would you argue against lowered grade?

Postby Younger Abstention » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:47 pm

You could threaten to report it to Above The Law...

situations like this are why, my friends, you shouldn't attend really shitty law schools.




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