Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

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NYLS3rdTiererYay
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Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby NYLS3rdTiererYay » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:34 pm

So, the facts are, 85% of us are not in the top 15% of our graduating class. So where do we have the hopes of going to work 2L summer or even at graduation? I'm tired of only hearing about the job prospects for the T14 or top 10-15%.

What happens to the rest of us. What are some really good firms and programs that offer summer associate positions to student's from 2nd or 3rd Tier law schools? Are you a recent grad who wasn't the top of your class with a job? Where do you work, where did you get offers from, what was your job application strategy, and what is your salary?

Norwood
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby Norwood » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:32 pm

top 15%? I'm in that rank and still haven't nailed any summer position yet. you probably mean top 5% : (

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johansantana21
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby johansantana21 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:13 pm

LOL at 15% at TTT getting biglaw, set yo sights more realistic and aim for shitlaw or walmart outside of top 5-10% LOLLL

BeaverHunter
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby BeaverHunter » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:21 pm

johansantana21 wrote:LOL at 15% at TTT getting biglaw, set yo sights more realistic and aim for shitlaw or walmart outside of top 5-10% LOLLL


You're a douchebag.

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IAFG
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby IAFG » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:23 pm

johansantana21 wrote:LOL at 15% at TTT getting biglaw, set yo sights more realistic and aim for shitlaw or walmart outside of top 5-10% LOLLL

big firms aren't the only firms that take summers. plenty of TTT students spend their 2L summers at some sort of firm. OP never said "biglaw" so it sure seems like you're being a fuckwad for the fun of it.

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johansantana21
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby johansantana21 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:35 pm

IAFG wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:LOL at 15% at TTT getting biglaw, set yo sights more realistic and aim for shitlaw or walmart outside of top 5-10% LOLLL

big firms aren't the only firms that take summers. plenty of TTT students spend their 2L summers at some sort of firm. OP never said "biglaw" so it sure seems like you're being a fuckwad for the fun of it.


LET ME QUOTE OP EHRE

"What are some really good firms and programs that offer summer associate positions to student's from 2nd or 3rd Tier law schools?"

REALLY GOOD FIRMS LOL U THINK SHITLAW QUALIFIES THERE LOL

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IAFG
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby IAFG » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:43 pm

johansantana21 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:LOL at 15% at TTT getting biglaw, set yo sights more realistic and aim for shitlaw or walmart outside of top 5-10% LOLLL

big firms aren't the only firms that take summers. plenty of TTT students spend their 2L summers at some sort of firm. OP never said "biglaw" so it sure seems like you're being a fuckwad for the fun of it.


LET ME QUOTE OP EHRE

"What are some really good firms and programs that offer summer associate positions to student's from 2nd or 3rd Tier law schools?"

REALLY GOOD FIRMS LOL U THINK SHITLAW QUALIFIES THERE LOL

"good" is relative and there are firms between biglaw and shitlaw. you clearly don't know anything about hiring outside of biglaw so why don't you just sit down and let people who aren't 100% talking out of their asses hash this out.

truevines
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby truevines » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:59 pm

IAFG wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:LOL at 15% at TTT getting biglaw, set yo sights more realistic and aim for shitlaw or walmart outside of top 5-10% LOLLL

big firms aren't the only firms that take summers. plenty of TTT students spend their 2L summers at some sort of firm. OP never said "biglaw" so it sure seems like you're being a fuckwad for the fun of it.


LET ME QUOTE OP EHRE

"What are some really good firms and programs that offer summer associate positions to student's from 2nd or 3rd Tier law schools?"

REALLY GOOD FIRMS LOL U THINK SHITLAW QUALIFIES THERE LOL

"good" is relative and there are firms between biglaw and shitlaw. you clearly don't know anything about hiring outside of biglaw so why don't you just sit down and let people who aren't 100% talking out of their asses hash this out.


What about the famous bimodal distribution of 1st-year associate compensations?

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/nalp-gives-more-information-on-expected-lawyer-salary/

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shepdawg
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby shepdawg » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:03 pm

IAFG wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:LOL at 15% at TTT getting biglaw, set yo sights more realistic and aim for shitlaw or walmart outside of top 5-10% LOLLL

big firms aren't the only firms that take summers. plenty of TTT students spend their 2L summers at some sort of firm. OP never said "biglaw" so it sure seems like you're being a fuckwad for the fun of it.


However, OP did say "Summer Associate." Small firms call their summers "Law Clerks" or "legal interns."

Not even #1 at my TTT got a big law SA position, so OP's estimate of 5-15% is very optimistic. NLJ 250 isn't out of the picture though, but then you have to be top 1% just to land the SA job.

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romothesavior
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby romothesavior » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:08 pm

Should have thought of this when you were applying. The information was out there and people on TLS would have gladly warned you away from NYLS two years ago. If you go to NYLS and aren't top 5-10%, there aren't going to be many "really good firms and programs" available to you. Your job prospects are bleak. Sorry to be frank.

This late in the game, you are going to have to hustle hard and get lucky. Can you get a decent job? Yes. But your odds are fleeting at this point. Carpet bomb smaller firms, think about doing PI/proseucution/government, think about federal government 2L gigs (although your window has probably closed on those). You need to realize you are going to have a tough time with these jobs because you go to a bad school and people at much better schools are going to be clawing for them as well. Networking helps, so hit that trail too, but it is certainly not a golden ticket to a job.

You ask, "What happens to the rest of us" who aren't at a good school or have top grades. The answer for most of you is unemployment or a shitty job. Sorry you're just now realizing that.

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romothesavior
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby romothesavior » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:10 pm

IAFG wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:LOL at 15% at TTT getting biglaw, set yo sights more realistic and aim for shitlaw or walmart outside of top 5-10% LOLLL

big firms aren't the only firms that take summers. plenty of TTT students spend their 2L summers at some sort of firm.

Yeah, but most non-biglaw firms are taking just a small handful of people and you would be very lucky to get a permanent offer. Its usually not the SA ---> full time path that NLJ firms offer. Yes, OP can get a 2L job, and he probably will. But then what? Also he said "great firms or programs," and I'm sorry, but most solid firms or government/PI programs have done hiring or are doing it now. It's late in the game. It isn't over for OP. but that fat lady is warming up in the bullpen.

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traehekat
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby traehekat » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:41 am

johansantana21 wrote:LOL at 15% at TTT getting biglaw, set yo sights more realistic and aim for shitlaw or walmart outside of top 5-10% LOLLL


Literally every time I see you post you are acting like a jackass. Seriously man, grow up.

OP, there are no firms that specifically offer positions for just second and third tier law students, obviously. They all want the best students and unfortunately there are so many students and so few positions that they just don't have to reach too far back into in the class of second and third tier law schools if they don't want to. Your best bet is to stick to the market your school is in as those are the firms to likely have some experience/exposure to students from your school and just network your ass off. Most of the people you are seeking advice from are going to tell you that they hustled like crazy, kept in touch with as many people as possible, and may have had some prior work experience to help (in fact I think WE can be huge in situations like this).

EDIT: Assumed OP was a 1L, not sure though. If 2L then you need to slam on the gas pedal and get moving.

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johansantana21
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby johansantana21 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:53 am

IAFG wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:LOL at 15% at TTT getting biglaw, set yo sights more realistic and aim for shitlaw or walmart outside of top 5-10% LOLLL

big firms aren't the only firms that take summers. plenty of TTT students spend their 2L summers at some sort of firm. OP never said "biglaw" so it sure seems like you're being a fuckwad for the fun of it.


LET ME QUOTE OP EHRE

"What are some really good firms and programs that offer summer associate positions to student's from 2nd or 3rd Tier law schools?"

REALLY GOOD FIRMS LOL U THINK SHITLAW QUALIFIES THERE LOL

"good" is relative and there are firms between biglaw and shitlaw. you clearly don't know anything about hiring outside of biglaw so why don't you just sit down and let people who aren't 100% talking out of their asses hash this out.


Yes "good" is relative, and shitlaw out of a TTT is good, in a relative sense LOL.

Also +1 to everything everyone else said. Bimodal job distribution, info was already out there about what happens to people who go to TTT's, etc etc etc.

OP should stop acting as if "really good jobs" magically pop up for TTT students outside the top 10% just because there are TTT students who need "really good jobs" to get out of 6 figure debt. SET YO SIGHTS LOWER, shitlaw it up.

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romothesavior
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby romothesavior » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:58 pm

johansantana21 wrote:Yes "good" is relative, and shitlaw out of a TTT is good, in a relative sense LOL.

Also +1 to everything everyone else said. Bimodal job distribution, info was already out there about what happens to people who go to TTT's, etc etc etc.

OP should stop acting as if "really good jobs" magically pop up for TTT students outside the top 10% just because there are TTT students who need "really good jobs" to get out of 6 figure debt. SET YO SIGHTS LOWER, shitlaw it up.

I agree with traehekat that you're a mondodouche, but you're probably right. OP can pretty much expect 40k ID work or something along those lines if he goes into private practice. If I were him, I'd be loading up on crim classes and trying as hard as possible to get in with a prosecutor's office somewhere. Unfortunately, his degree is awful outside of NYC (as opposed to just bad in NYC), so doing that is tough as well.

I really have got nothing for you OP. Just network, carpet bomb firms with your resume (including, maybe even especially, the crappy ones), and pray. You might get lucky and land something respectable, but odds are stacked against you.

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Grizz
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby Grizz » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:54 pm

romothesavior wrote:It isn't over for OP. but that fat lady is warming up in the bullpen.

Solid use of mixed metaphors.

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Grizz
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby Grizz » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:55 pm

traehekat wrote:If 2L then you need to slam on the gas pedal and get moving.

Nice use of mixed metaphors.

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Grizz
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby Grizz » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:57 pm

NYLS is a festering cesspool. Try to legal intern at some small firm during the year, try to be indispensable, and pray to your deity of choice that they like you enough to hire you on full time. But you really need to hustle your ass off. The reality is that only 68% of new grads got jobs that require bar passage, and a lot of the ones that didn't come from schools like NYLS.

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kalvano
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby kalvano » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:07 pm

Came in here to post positive stuff, then realized OP was at a TTT in the most sought-after legal market in the US, realized anything I have to offer wouldn't be relevant.

People, if you're going to choose TTT's, don't choose them in NYC or DC.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby AVBucks4239 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:19 pm

--LinkRemoved--

uci2013
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby uci2013 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:10 pm

I'm not sure just how helpful this advise is in NYC since the city is so large and there is a lot of competition. But some of the advise above is good. Find internships during the school year, try to make yourself indispensable, or at least make they attorneys want to go to bat for you. Do as much pro bono work as you can, and try to find pro bono projects that allow you to network with practicing attorneys also doing pro bono work (you get experience, you help people, and you get to network - it's a trifecta). Join bar associations and network like crazy. The best networking is from working or doing pro bono because people get to see you work and get to see what you can do. The more you put yourself out there the better. Your path will be tougher than for some others, so you have to hustle more and hope you are at the right place at the right time.

nymario
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby nymario » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:02 pm

AVBucks4239 wrote:http://www.nyls.edu/user_files/1/3/4/145/DEANS%20Neighborhood%20Map%20PC%20v4r2.pdf


How come they didn't circle the FiDi BigLaw firms - Wall Street externships are more likely?

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sunynp
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby sunynp » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:10 pm

What does your OCI suggest? My best suggestion is to start going to events for law students at the city bar association and at the count bar association. They both also have great job searching techniques. In the summer there are programs for summer associates but you probably don't actually have to have a job to go. If you know an area you are interested in then go to events in areas you like. There are also lunches for small law firms every month that you could go to.

You need advice from beyond the help of this board. I think that is why you don't see much discussion of jobs at small firms here, not many of the posters here have experience liking for work at smaller firms. But I know there was a thread here recently by a guy who had a good job at a small or mid-size firm. He was bragging about what a great life he had ( hours wise) and giving people solid adviceThere are a lot of firms in new York. Not all of the small firms are unethical losers. I'm just not sure how to find them. Just because the distribution is bimodal, that doesn't mean there are no decent small or medium firms. You need to pick a specialty maybe.

I think that everyone deserves help in finding work.

NYLS3rdTiererYay
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby NYLS3rdTiererYay » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:05 pm

In life, there are those who "get it" and those who don't. I can think of a hundred other better things to do with my time than to get on a blog and say 101 things that don't benefit anyone. If you define your worth by having a big law job and your only definition of a good job is that, then so be it. That has nothing to do with the original purpose or questions asked in this post. I have a feeling that the reason you are on here wasting your precious life with such negative statements has everything to do with how you feel about yourself in real life. Obviously something you failed to learn from any school or from your parents is a basic respect for all people. Learn some class. No one, I don't care what school they chose to go to, deserves to be talked down to when at the end of the day our goal is the same ... to further our education and have a career we can be proud of and provide for ourselves. I hope you find happiness so that you don't feel the need to waste your precious time attempting to tear down other people. There are so many more worthy causes for you to put your time into.

I'll emphasize again, "Are you a recent grad who wasn't the top of your class with a job? Where do you work, where did you get offers from, what was your job application strategy, and what is your salary?"

Thank you to those who actually had something productive to say. At this point, there is no purpose in talking about the type of school you feel I or anyone SHOULD have gone to. That's irrelevant to this post.

shock259
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby shock259 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:43 pm

Make sure you put in your cover letter that you are a unique little flower.

But I don't think you are going to get much serious advice here. Cast an ENORMOUS net, network like hell, and pray. Alternatively, give up and do something non-legal.

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spleenworship
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Re: Job and Summer Associate Positions for 2nd and 3rd Tier

Postby spleenworship » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:39 pm

NYLS3rdTiererYay wrote:So, the facts are, 85% of us are not in the top 15% of our graduating class. So where do we have the hopes of going to work 2L summer or even at graduation? I'm tired of only hearing about the job prospects for the T14 or top 10-15%.

What happens to the rest of us. What are some really good firms and programs that offer summer associate positions to student's from 2nd or 3rd Tier law schools? Are you a recent grad who wasn't the top of your class with a job? Where do you work, where did you get offers from, what was your job application strategy, and what is your salary?


I went to an ADA "boot camp" for new hires the other day. They were coming from Syracuse and Georgia State- not amazing law schools- All the same they got paid jobs. The only "downside" as it were is that they ended up in a city of less than 200K in a rural western state.

Still, I would suggest government work in a rural area. PD/DA offices, county/city attorney offices/legal aids/etc. in small communities throughout the country are hiring. Look for states with low law school to population percentages (mostly in the west and south) and start applying for internships.

A DDA at a DA's office in my state in the northern part (the same one running a boot camp) said they had NEVER received a summer internship request. I bet they aren't the only ones.




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