1L first semester grades: another should I drop out thread

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pocky jocky
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Re: 1L first semester grades: another should I drop out thread

Postby pocky jocky » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:50 pm

thesealocust wrote:
pocky jocky wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:80k isn't that bad when you remember that you have your whole career to pay it off. If you really want to be a lawyer, I'd stay in and just do your best. That's what I'm doing anyway. And like I keep hearing, grades only matter for that first job you get. That's very important, but it's not like not getting an awesome first job is the end of the world. Maybe start at a not so awesome job, and if you have what it takes, you'll get a better job after a bit. If you don't have what it takes, you wouldn't keep that awesome job even if you had awesome grades.


good point. but I was under the impression that if you don't start in biglaw, it's difficult to get in later. do you think that's true?


It's impossible to get in later unless you wind up making a name for yourself in an important prosecutorial or regulatory job.


as established, my research before law school on the job market was inadequate. for entry-level employment, is there anything between biglaw and shitlaw?

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20130312
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Re: 1L first semester grades: another should I drop out thread

Postby 20130312 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:08 pm

pocky jocky wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
pocky jocky wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:80k isn't that bad when you remember that you have your whole career to pay it off. If you really want to be a lawyer, I'd stay in and just do your best. That's what I'm doing anyway. And like I keep hearing, grades only matter for that first job you get. That's very important, but it's not like not getting an awesome first job is the end of the world. Maybe start at a not so awesome job, and if you have what it takes, you'll get a better job after a bit. If you don't have what it takes, you wouldn't keep that awesome job even if you had awesome grades.


good point. but I was under the impression that if you don't start in biglaw, it's difficult to get in later. do you think that's true?


It's impossible to get in later unless you wind up making a name for yourself in an important prosecutorial or regulatory job.


as established, my research before law school on the job market was inadequate. for entry-level employment, is there anything between biglaw and shitlaw?


No.

Sauce: http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib

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Kikero
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Re: 1L first semester grades: another should I drop out thread

Postby Kikero » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:40 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
pocky jocky wrote:
as established, my research before law school on the job market was inadequate. for entry-level employment, is there anything between biglaw and shitlaw?


No.

Sauce: http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib


Out of curiosity, what sort of jobs are in the middle of the graph? Obviously the largest salary concentrations are 40k-65k and 160k, but the caption under the graph (Class of 2010) states that those two salary ranges account for 67% of reported salaries. So there is still almost a third unaccounted for. If those aren't "Midlaw" are they in-house positions with businesses or smaller city offices of Biglaw firms?

pocky jocky
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Re: 1L first semester grades: another should I drop out thread

Postby pocky jocky » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:59 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
pocky jocky wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
pocky jocky wrote:good point. but I was under the impression that if you don't start in biglaw, it's difficult to get in later. do you think that's true?


It's impossible to get in later unless you wind up making a name for yourself in an important prosecutorial or regulatory job.


as established, my research before law school on the job market was inadequate. for entry-level employment, is there anything between biglaw and shitlaw?


No.

Sauce: http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib


jesus

random5483
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Re: 1L first semester grades: another should I drop out thread

Postby random5483 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:23 pm

The salary distribution is merely a result of how much big law pays compared to everything else. If you make big law, you earn 160k. If you make big law in a secondary market you might make 125-160k. Very few new attorneys end up in mid-law. Most of your remaining options are smaller firms or government jobs. Government jobs start you off in the 50k range (60k in some places). Smaller firms also start you off around the same range. Of those two options, government jobs are usually better. However, in small firms your pay can sometimes scale well (depends).

With a 2.2 after your first semester, you will not get big law. You won't have the required grades to make it to the top 10% or so of your class (what you will probably need for big law at a school in your range). You will most likely end up below median, so making the top 10% or so is not really possible. 3Ls have a "small" opportunity to get into big law, but 3L OCI for big law is almost non-existent. Further, you are unlikely to have the grades (and the luck) required to pull that off.

If you have strong family connections, staying in law school might make sense. Otherwise, the risk is, in my opinion, too great. If you were attending law school with very little cost, the risk might be worth it. There are jobs available for people who perform poorly from a decent school. The problem is these are not good jobs and will likely hire you part-time or by the hour. Do you really want to attend law school and end up earning half as much or less than some people with Bachelor's degrees (e.g. engineering).

Law school costs too much money and too many people choose to attend. The legal field has more fresh graduates each year than the good positions available to them. Ask yourself whether it is worth taking massive loans and earning 40k/year in a small firm that works you to death. 40-60k/year in a government job is one thing (nicer hours, some upward mobility/etc), but 40k/year in a dead end job is a whole different scenario. Unless you have solid reasons for remaining in law school you should consider dropping out (reasons like guaranteed job, almost no loans, etc).

pocky jocky
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:57 pm

Re: 1L first semester grades: another should I drop out thread

Postby pocky jocky » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:07 pm

random5483 wrote:The salary distribution is merely a result of how much big law pays compared to everything else. If you make big law, you earn 160k. If you make big law in a secondary market you might make 125-160k. Very few new attorneys end up in mid-law. Most of your remaining options are smaller firms or government jobs. Government jobs start you off in the 50k range (60k in some places). Smaller firms also start you off around the same range. Of those two options, government jobs are usually better. However, in small firms your pay can sometimes scale well (depends).

With a 2.2 after your first semester, you will not get big law. You won't have the required grades to make it to the top 10% or so of your class (what you will probably need for big law at a school in your range). You will most likely end up below median, so making the top 10% or so is not really possible. 3Ls have a "small" opportunity to get into big law, but 3L OCI for big law is almost non-existent. Further, you are unlikely to have the grades (and the luck) required to pull that off.

If you have strong family connections, staying in law school might make sense. Otherwise, the risk is, in my opinion, too great. If you were attending law school with very little cost, the risk might be worth it. There are jobs available for people who perform poorly from a decent school. The problem is these are not good jobs and will likely hire you part-time or by the hour. Do you really want to attend law school and end up earning half as much or less than some people with Bachelor's degrees (e.g. engineering).

Law school costs too much money and too many people choose to attend. The legal field has more fresh graduates each year than the good positions available to them. Ask yourself whether it is worth taking massive loans and earning 40k/year in a small firm that works you to death. 40-60k/year in a government job is one thing (nicer hours, some upward mobility/etc), but 40k/year in a dead end job is a whole different scenario. Unless you have solid reasons for remaining in law school you should consider dropping out (reasons like guaranteed job, almost no loans, etc).


am I correct in understanding that my ranking when I graduate doesn't matter much, but my ranking after my first year? i.e. when people talk about top 10% getting biglaw, they're referring to their 1L (or fall 2L) ranking

c3pO4
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Re: 1L first semester grades: another should I drop out thread

Postby c3pO4 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:08 pm

pocky jocky wrote:
random5483 wrote:The salary distribution is merely a result of how much big law pays compared to everything else. If you make big law, you earn 160k. If you make big law in a secondary market you might make 125-160k. Very few new attorneys end up in mid-law. Most of your remaining options are smaller firms or government jobs. Government jobs start you off in the 50k range (60k in some places). Smaller firms also start you off around the same range. Of those two options, government jobs are usually better. However, in small firms your pay can sometimes scale well (depends).

With a 2.2 after your first semester, you will not get big law. You won't have the required grades to make it to the top 10% or so of your class (what you will probably need for big law at a school in your range). You will most likely end up below median, so making the top 10% or so is not really possible. 3Ls have a "small" opportunity to get into big law, but 3L OCI for big law is almost non-existent. Further, you are unlikely to have the grades (and the luck) required to pull that off.

If you have strong family connections, staying in law school might make sense. Otherwise, the risk is, in my opinion, too great. If you were attending law school with very little cost, the risk might be worth it. There are jobs available for people who perform poorly from a decent school. The problem is these are not good jobs and will likely hire you part-time or by the hour. Do you really want to attend law school and end up earning half as much or less than some people with Bachelor's degrees (e.g. engineering).

Law school costs too much money and too many people choose to attend. The legal field has more fresh graduates each year than the good positions available to them. Ask yourself whether it is worth taking massive loans and earning 40k/year in a small firm that works you to death. 40-60k/year in a government job is one thing (nicer hours, some upward mobility/etc), but 40k/year in a dead end job is a whole different scenario. Unless you have solid reasons for remaining in law school you should consider dropping out (reasons like guaranteed job, almost no loans, etc).


am I correct in understanding that my ranking when I graduate doesn't matter much, but my ranking after my first year? i.e. when people talk about top 10% getting biglaw, they're referring to their 1L (or fall 2L) ranking


Yes. You should've figured this out long ago.




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