Top Law Schools

MTal wrote:

pocky jocky wrote:grades are in, and I failed to meet my most modest expectations with a 2.2. I'm at a lower tier-1 school.

I've done the math, and to hit that top 15-20% ranking by graduation I would have to do pretty f*king awesome for the next 5 semesters. should I just drop out?

You need to to hit this number by the end of 1L, not 3L. After 1L all that matters is connections and networking. Nothing else.

but don't 2L and 3L grades make up the majority of your final gpa?

pocky jocky wrote: but don't 2L and 3L grades make up the majority of your final gpa?

Yes, but biglaw hiring is done EXCLUSIVELY during the fall of your 2L year, and the only record they have to go on is your 1L grades. If you miss the biglaw boat after OCI, you have missed it for good. All that is left aside from biglaw is government and shitlaw...shitlaw firms don't care about your grades. The only thing they care about is whether or not you can bring in additional business (sales ability/connections) and how much they have to train you on the job (work experience). If you don't have either of these qualifications, then your chances of landing a job after graduation are essentially nil, regardless of your GPA.

MTal wrote:

pocky jocky wrote: but don't 2L and 3L grades make up the majority of your final gpa?

Yes, but biglaw hiring is done EXCLUSIVELY during the fall of your 2L year, and the only record they have to go on is your 1L grades. If you miss the biglaw boat after OCI, you have missed it for good. All that is left aside from biglaw is government and shitlaw...shitlaw firms don't care about your grades. The only thing they care about is whether or not you can bring in additional business (sales ability/connections) and how much they have to train you on the job (work experience). If you don't have either of these qualifications, then your chances of landing a job after graduation are essentially nil, regardless of your GPA.

fuck. how about midlaw?

yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

merc280 wrote:yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

pocky jocky wrote:

merc280 wrote:yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

pocky jocky wrote:

MTal wrote:

pocky jocky wrote: but don't 2L and 3L grades make up the majority of your final gpa?

Yes, but biglaw hiring is done EXCLUSIVELY during the fall of your 2L year, and the only record they have to go on is your 1L grades. If you miss the biglaw boat after OCI, you have missed it for good. All that is left aside from biglaw is government and shitlaw...shitlaw firms don't care about your grades. The only thing they care about is whether or not you can bring in additional business (sales ability/connections) and how much they have to train you on the job (work experience). If you don't have either of these qualifications, then your chances of landing a job after graduation are essentially nil, regardless of your GPA.

fuck. how about midlaw?

Midlaw is a unicorn. It effectively does not exist for fresh graduates. They only hire former biglaw partners with portable books of business, or attorneys who are widely known as superstars or specialists in their field. How is it that you don't already know any of this? Didn't you research the job market when you went to law school?

merc280 wrote:

pocky jocky wrote:

merc280 wrote:yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

sorry, divided by 3 bc I'm an idiot

pocky jocky wrote:

merc280 wrote:

pocky jocky wrote:

merc280 wrote:yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

sorry, divided by 3 bc I'm an idiot

...Drop out.

pocky jocky wrote:

merc280 wrote:

pocky jocky wrote:

merc280 wrote:yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

sorry, divided by 3 bc I'm an idiot

So better news. You'll just have to try really hard.

Could wanting to reset their rank and GPA be some reason people transfer to similar ranked schools?

MTal wrote:

pocky jocky wrote:

MTal wrote:

pocky jocky wrote: but don't 2L and 3L grades make up the majority of your final gpa?

Yes, but biglaw hiring is done EXCLUSIVELY during the fall of your 2L year, and the only record they have to go on is your 1L grades. If you miss the biglaw boat after OCI, you have missed it for good. All that is left aside from biglaw is government and shitlaw...shitlaw firms don't care about your grades. The only thing they care about is whether or not you can bring in additional business (sales ability/connections) and how much they have to train you on the job (work experience). If you don't have either of these qualifications, then your chances of landing a job after graduation are essentially nil, regardless of your GPA.

fuck. how about midlaw?

Midlaw is a unicorn. It effectively does not exist for fresh graduates. They only hire former biglaw partners with portable books of business, or attorneys who are widely known as superstars or specialists in their field. How is it that you don't already know any of this? Didn't you research the job market when you went to law school?

I did, and my conclusions were:

1) outside of T20, you need at least top 20% ranking for a shot at big law
2) excepting schools like villanova (and schools in chicago/NY), it's tier-1 or bust
3) employment happens before you graduate or you're fucked

just assumed midlaw was biglaw with lower standards.

pocky jocky wrote:

merc280 wrote:

pocky jocky wrote:

merc280 wrote:yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

sorry, divided by 3 bc I'm an idiot

plus divided by 3 would be like 2.1

InGoodFaith wrote:

pocky jocky wrote:

merc280 wrote:

pocky jocky wrote:well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

sorry, divided by 3 bc I'm an idiot

...Drop out.

hahaha add it to the list

merc280 wrote:

pocky jocky wrote:

merc280 wrote:

pocky jocky wrote:well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

sorry, divided by 3 bc I'm an idiot

plus divided by 3 would be like 2.1

with each post I make, I further the case for dropping out. I have no idea how I got 2.8, I would have had to divide 5.6 instead of 6.2.

Is this a flame? 2.2? And there are people saying you should stay? Seriously? If you got a 2.2 first semester, you would be lucky to break 3.0 second semester. At best, you're looking at 2.6 cumulative heading into 2L which is still the very bottom of the class. Unless your uncle chairs the firm, he isn't getting someone hired with those grades.

This isn't close. Drop. Out. Now. Or you will regret it later.

bceagles182 wrote:Is this a flame? 2.2? And there are people saying you should stay? Seriously? If you got a 2.2 first semester, you would be lucky to break 3.0 second semester. At best, you're looking at 2.6 cumulative heading into 2L which is still the very bottom of the class. Unless your uncle chairs the firm, he isn't getting someone hired with those grades.

This isn't close. Drop. Out. Now. Or you will regret it later.

But dude, he could totally get a 4.0 next semester if he tries really hard.

well thanks everyone for the advice. I have a hard decision to make either way I go.

pocky jocky wrote:well thanks everyone for the advice. I have a hard decision to make either way I go.

Are you fucking kidding me? Life basically never gives decisions this easy. I'd spend more time meditating on the pros and cons of capturing Osama Bin Laden vs. inviting him for a state dinner in his honor. I've seen closer dilemmas on Say Yes To The Dress.

Law school is awful. Being a lawyer is awful. You are unemployable. You are going deeply into debt for that privilege.

Cut your losses.

debt of 80k?

my humble assessment is that you should drop out.

Lasers wrote:debt of 80k?

my humble assessment is that you should drop out.

I'd pay $60-70k (OP already paid into the first year) for a JD and IBR it after.

InGoodFaith wrote:

bceagles182 wrote:Is this a flame? 2.2? And there are people saying you should stay? Seriously? If you got a 2.2 first semester, you would be lucky to break 3.0 second semester. At best, you're looking at 2.6 cumulative heading into 2L which is still the very bottom of the class. Unless your uncle chairs the firm, he isn't getting someone hired with those grades.

This isn't close. Drop. Out. Now. Or you will regret it later.

But dude, he could totally get a 4.0 next semester if he tries really hard.

It would take a complete over haul of the study methods he was using last semester and well even then it isn't guaranteed.

merc280 wrote:

InGoodFaith wrote:

bceagles182 wrote:Is this a flame? 2.2? And there are people saying you should stay? Seriously? If you got a 2.2 first semester, you would be lucky to break 3.0 second semester. At best, you're looking at 2.6 cumulative heading into 2L which is still the very bottom of the class. Unless your uncle chairs the firm, he isn't getting someone hired with those grades.

This isn't close. Drop. Out. Now. Or you will regret it later.

But dude, he could totally get a 4.0 next semester if he tries really hard.

It would take a complete over haul of the study methods he was using last semester and well even then it isn't guaranteed.

/sarcasm

80k isn't that bad when you remember that you have your whole career to pay it off. If you really want to be a lawyer, I'd stay in and just do your best. That's what I'm doing anyway. And like I keep hearing, grades only matter for that first job you get. That's very important, but it's not like not getting an awesome first job is the end of the world. Maybe start at a not so awesome job, and if you have what it takes, you'll get a better job after a bit. If you don't have what it takes, you wouldn't keep that awesome job even if you had awesome grades.

TheFutureLawyer wrote:80k isn't that bad when you remember that you have your whole career to pay it off. If you really want to be a lawyer, I'd stay in and just do your best. That's what I'm doing anyway. And like I keep hearing, grades only matter for that first job you get. That's very important, but it's not like not getting an awesome first job is the end of the world. Maybe start at a not so awesome job, and if you have what it takes, you'll get a better job after a bit. If you don't have what it takes, you wouldn't keep that awesome job even if you had awesome grades.

good point. but I was under the impression that if you don't start in biglaw, it's difficult to get in later. do you think that's true?

pocky jocky wrote:

TheFutureLawyer wrote:80k isn't that bad when you remember that you have your whole career to pay it off. If you really want to be a lawyer, I'd stay in and just do your best. That's what I'm doing anyway. And like I keep hearing, grades only matter for that first job you get. That's very important, but it's not like not getting an awesome first job is the end of the world. Maybe start at a not so awesome job, and if you have what it takes, you'll get a better job after a bit. If you don't have what it takes, you wouldn't keep that awesome job even if you had awesome grades.

good point. but I was under the impression that if you don't start in biglaw, it's difficult to get in later. do you think that's true?

It's impossible to get in later unless you wind up making a name for yourself in an important prosecutorial or regulatory job.