1L first semester grades: another should I drop out thread Forum

[pocky jocky]

grades are in, and I failed to meet my most modest expectations with a 2.2. I'm at a lower tier-1 school.

I've done the math, and to hit that top 15-20% ranking by graduation I would have to do pretty f*king awesome for the next 5 semesters. should I just drop out?

You need to to hit this number by the end of 1L, not 3L. After 1L all that matters is connections and networking. Nothing else.

but don't 2L and 3L grades make up the majority of your final gpa?

[MTal]

but don't 2L and 3L grades make up the majority of your final gpa?

Yes, but biglaw hiring is done EXCLUSIVELY during the fall of your 2L year, and the only record they have to go on is your 1L grades. If you miss the biglaw boat after OCI, you have missed it for good. All that is left aside from biglaw is government and shitlaw...shitlaw firms don't care about your grades. The only thing they care about is whether or not you can bring in additional business (sales ability/connections) and how much they have to train you on the job (work experience). If you don't have either of these qualifications, then your chances of landing a job after graduation are essentially nil, regardless of your GPA.

[pocky jocky]

but don't 2L and 3L grades make up the majority of your final gpa?

Yes, but biglaw hiring is done EXCLUSIVELY during the fall of your 2L year, and the only record they have to go on is your 1L grades. If you miss the biglaw boat after OCI, you have missed it for good. All that is left aside from biglaw is government and shitlaw...shitlaw firms don't care about your grades. The only thing they care about is whether or not you can bring in additional business (sales ability/connections) and how much they have to train you on the job (work experience). If you don't have either of these qualifications, then your chances of landing a job after graduation are essentially nil, regardless of your GPA.

fuck. how about midlaw?

[merc280]

yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

[pocky jocky]

yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

[merc280]

yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

[MTal]

but don't 2L and 3L grades make up the majority of your final gpa?

Yes, but biglaw hiring is done EXCLUSIVELY during the fall of your 2L year, and the only record they have to go on is your 1L grades. If you miss the biglaw boat after OCI, you have missed it for good. All that is left aside from biglaw is government and shitlaw...shitlaw firms don't care about your grades. The only thing they care about is whether or not you can bring in additional business (sales ability/connections) and how much they have to train you on the job (work experience). If you don't have either of these qualifications, then your chances of landing a job after graduation are essentially nil, regardless of your GPA.

fuck. how about midlaw?

Midlaw is a unicorn. It effectively does not exist for fresh graduates. They only hire former biglaw partners with portable books of business, or attorneys who are widely known as superstars or specialists in their field. How is it that you don't already know any of this? Didn't you research the job market when you went to law school?

[pocky jocky]

yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

sorry, divided by 3 bc I'm an idiot

[20130312]

yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

sorry, divided by 3 bc I'm an idiot

...Drop out.

[merc280]

yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

sorry, divided by 3 bc I'm an idiot

So better news. You'll just have to try really hard.

Could wanting to reset their rank and GPA be some reason people transfer to similar ranked schools?

[pocky jocky]

but don't 2L and 3L grades make up the majority of your final gpa?

Yes, but biglaw hiring is done EXCLUSIVELY during the fall of your 2L year, and the only record they have to go on is your 1L grades. If you miss the biglaw boat after OCI, you have missed it for good. All that is left aside from biglaw is government and shitlaw...shitlaw firms don't care about your grades. The only thing they care about is whether or not you can bring in additional business (sales ability/connections) and how much they have to train you on the job (work experience). If you don't have either of these qualifications, then your chances of landing a job after graduation are essentially nil, regardless of your GPA.

fuck. how about midlaw?

Midlaw is a unicorn. It effectively does not exist for fresh graduates. They only hire former biglaw partners with portable books of business, or attorneys who are widely known as superstars or specialists in their field. How is it that you don't already know any of this? Didn't you research the job market when you went to law school?

I did, and my conclusions were:

1) outside of T20, you need at least top 20% ranking for a shot at big law
2) excepting schools like villanova (and schools in chicago/NY), it's tier-1 or bust
3) employment happens before you graduate or you're fucked

just assumed midlaw was biglaw with lower standards.

[merc280]

yeah but even if you get a 4.0 this semester, combined that with your 2.2, wont you be in the top 30%?

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

sorry, divided by 3 bc I'm an idiot

plus divided by 3 would be like 2.1

[pocky jocky]

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

sorry, divided by 3 bc I'm an idiot

...Drop out.

hahaha add it to the list

[pocky jocky]

well that would give me a 2.8 - I would think that'd land me in the top 50% or so, right?

I thought you add them and divide by 2? That would get a 3.1

sorry, divided by 3 bc I'm an idiot

plus divided by 3 would be like 2.1

with each post I make, I further the case for dropping out. I have no idea how I got 2.8, I would have had to divide 5.6 instead of 6.2.

[bceagles182]

Is this a flame? 2.2? And there are people saying you should stay? Seriously? If you got a 2.2 first semester, you would be lucky to break 3.0 second semester. At best, you're looking at 2.6 cumulative heading into 2L which is still the very bottom of the class. Unless your uncle chairs the firm, he isn't getting someone hired with those grades.

This isn't close. Drop. Out. Now. Or you will regret it later.

[20130312]

Is this a flame? 2.2? And there are people saying you should stay? Seriously? If you got a 2.2 first semester, you would be lucky to break 3.0 second semester. At best, you're looking at 2.6 cumulative heading into 2L which is still the very bottom of the class. Unless your uncle chairs the firm, he isn't getting someone hired with those grades.

This isn't close. Drop. Out. Now. Or you will regret it later.

But dude, he could totally get a 4.0 next semester if he tries really hard.

[pocky jocky]

well thanks everyone for the advice. I have a hard decision to make either way I go.

[thesealocust]

well thanks everyone for the advice. I have a hard decision to make either way I go.

Are you fucking kidding me? Life basically never gives decisions this easy. I'd spend more time meditating on the pros and cons of capturing Osama Bin Laden vs. inviting him for a state dinner in his honor. I've seen closer dilemmas on Say Yes To The Dress.

Law school is awful. Being a lawyer is awful. You are unemployable. You are going deeply into debt for that privilege.

Cut your losses.

[Lasers]

debt of 80k?

my humble assessment is that you should drop out.

[r6_philly]

debt of 80k?

my humble assessment is that you should drop out.

I'd pay $60-70k (OP already paid into the first year) for a JD and IBR it after.

[merc280]

Is this a flame? 2.2? And there are people saying you should stay? Seriously? If you got a 2.2 first semester, you would be lucky to break 3.0 second semester. At best, you're looking at 2.6 cumulative heading into 2L which is still the very bottom of the class. Unless your uncle chairs the firm, he isn't getting someone hired with those grades.

This isn't close. Drop. Out. Now. Or you will regret it later.

But dude, he could totally get a 4.0 next semester if he tries really hard.

It would take a complete over haul of the study methods he was using last semester and well even then it isn't guaranteed.

[20130312]

Is this a flame? 2.2? And there are people saying you should stay? Seriously? If you got a 2.2 first semester, you would be lucky to break 3.0 second semester. At best, you're looking at 2.6 cumulative heading into 2L which is still the very bottom of the class. Unless your uncle chairs the firm, he isn't getting someone hired with those grades.

This isn't close. Drop. Out. Now. Or you will regret it later.

But dude, he could totally get a 4.0 next semester if he tries really hard.

It would take a complete over haul of the study methods he was using last semester and well even then it isn't guaranteed.

/sarcasm

[TheFutureLawyer]

80k isn't that bad when you remember that you have your whole career to pay it off. If you really want to be a lawyer, I'd stay in and just do your best. That's what I'm doing anyway. And like I keep hearing, grades only matter for that first job you get. That's very important, but it's not like not getting an awesome first job is the end of the world. Maybe start at a not so awesome job, and if you have what it takes, you'll get a better job after a bit. If you don't have what it takes, you wouldn't keep that awesome job even if you had awesome grades.

[pocky jocky]

80k isn't that bad when you remember that you have your whole career to pay it off. If you really want to be a lawyer, I'd stay in and just do your best. That's what I'm doing anyway. And like I keep hearing, grades only matter for that first job you get. That's very important, but it's not like not getting an awesome first job is the end of the world. Maybe start at a not so awesome job, and if you have what it takes, you'll get a better job after a bit. If you don't have what it takes, you wouldn't keep that awesome job even if you had awesome grades.

good point. but I was under the impression that if you don't start in biglaw, it's difficult to get in later. do you think that's true?

[thesealocust]

80k isn't that bad when you remember that you have your whole career to pay it off. If you really want to be a lawyer, I'd stay in and just do your best. That's what I'm doing anyway. And like I keep hearing, grades only matter for that first job you get. That's very important, but it's not like not getting an awesome first job is the end of the world. Maybe start at a not so awesome job, and if you have what it takes, you'll get a better job after a bit. If you don't have what it takes, you wouldn't keep that awesome job even if you had awesome grades.

good point. but I was under the impression that if you don't start in biglaw, it's difficult to get in later. do you think that's true?

It's impossible to get in later unless you wind up making a name for yourself in an important prosecutorial or regulatory job.