Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

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howell
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby howell » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:55 am

So, whether or not you have to pull sources from an actual hard copy source, is everyone required to turn in the sources (I would assume)? If so, do you have to turn in hard copies of the sources (such as print-outs of online articles), or can you compile and turn in electronic sources as a large package of electronic files?

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JoeMo
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby JoeMo » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:04 am

Ouch, this sounds like no fun at all.

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kalvano
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby kalvano » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:20 am

Geist13 wrote:
TTH wrote:Uh, bros, about all this hard copy shit, you know you can pull pdf images of like every law journal off heinonline, right? You're not actually hunting down bound journals are you?


Trust me we are all well aware of what we should be allowed to do. Hard bound is the journal's policy.


That may be the dumbest thing I've heard about all year.

howell wrote:So, whether or not you have to pull sources from an actual hard copy source, is everyone required to turn in the sources (I would assume)? If so, do you have to turn in hard copies of the sources (such as print-outs of online articles), or can you compile and turn in electronic sources as a large package of electronic files?


We have to have hard copies of each source, but pulling them from the online PDF's is fine. We take each hard copy, note at the top which footnote it applies to, highlight the relevant portion, and turn it in. We scan it and upload it to the journal's online site. My last cite check, I never even left my house to do it all, except for one brief trip to the library for 2 books.

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kalvano
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby kalvano » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:22 am

JoeMo wrote:Ouch, this sounds like no fun at all.


All Law Review is is a signal to employers that you're OK with doing shitty make-work that serves no real purpose in the hopes that it will give you some type of prestige bump.

Basically, you'll be the guy they call at 11:30 PM on a Saturday with that urgent project that has to be done Monday morning.

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TTH
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby TTH » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:23 am

howell wrote:So, whether or not you have to pull sources from an actual hard copy source, is everyone required to turn in the sources (I would assume)? If so, do you have to turn in hard copies of the sources (such as print-outs of online articles), or can you compile and turn in electronic sources as a large package of electronic files?


I guess it depends on your Journal. My journal we have to turn in official, hard copy sources. So, either the printed material itself or a printout of an image from the official source (so for reporters, journals, codes that are on HeinOnline, you can just grab the PDF).

Basically, you can't use westlaw or lexis printouts.


Kalvano, the scanning thing seems pretty sweet. We put everything in big ass binders that are a pain to to work with.

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kalvano
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby kalvano » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:35 am

TTH wrote:Kalvano, the scanning thing seems pretty sweet. We put everything in big ass binders that are a pain to to work with.



Last year, everyone was required to turn in actual paper copies to their respective editors. They told us at the beginning that that was the first thing they changed because it was a huge pain in the ass and served no real, discernible purpose since everyone also had to upload them.

I knew around then that my e-board would be pretty easy to work with, and they have been.

I think a lot of your LR / journal experience is dependent on your e-board. Mine are very nice, helpful, easygoing, and very communicative. We get advance notice of upcoming cite checks, they give us lots of opportunities to fulfill the various requirements, and they are always super nice and cheerful. They demand top-notch work, but at the same time they do stuff like change stupid requirements that make things harder on people for no reason, and put a moratorium on cite checks starting a couple weeks before finals and not ending until the week after.

So I haven't really had the nightmare journal experience like some people on here have, and a couple friends on a different journal at my school.

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TTH
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby TTH » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:37 am

Yeah, our e-board is very, very fair. We publish six issues a year, so there's always a lot of work, but there's never any surprises and they try to make the process as painless as possible.

03121202698008
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:45 am

goodolgil wrote:The most infuriating thing about associate editor work is how manufactured it is--no journal would actually pay anybody to do this worthless work, but they need something to keep the 40 or so new editors they bring on each year busy. I'm especially thinking of the source gathering process and its hard copy requirement--there is absolutely no way the people writing these articles are using hard copy annotated codes and reporters, yet we're required to hunt these down anyway.

Ed. board work seems a little bit more substantive, but still boring and with a more significant time commitment. I also don't like the idea of 3Ls telling legitimate legal scholars how they should write their articles. I'm sure a lot of articles have lots of room for improvement, but it's a pretty pathetic system compared to actual peer review.


You know you can get almost all hard copies in digital format from Heinonline right? It's just as easy as Westlaw.

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howell
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby howell » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:06 am

TTH wrote:
Kalvano, the scanning thing seems pretty sweet. We put everything in big ass binders that are a pain to to work with.


This is what we currently have to do, and I'm trying to figure out any reason why not to go with completely electronic binders.

Thanks to both of you for the feedback.

Our law review used to require us to copy the hard copies of journal articles and cases, but I always thought that was crazy, since anyone using/checking our citations would be pulling them up online anyway.

flcath
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby flcath » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:54 am

Geist13 wrote:
JoeMo wrote:As a 0L does anyone care to enlighten me as to why it's worthless and why it's such a horrible thing? Obviously I don't know much about the process thus have no idea what makes it such an awful thing.


Here's a summary of my law review duties:

Citechecking: You get a section of the article and are responsible for making sure that the article is properly blue booked and is grammatically correct and that every proposition is supported by external authority. That doesn't sound too bad. Except the authors don't know anything about bluebooking. Literally every footnote is filled with errors. Oh is this comma italicized, I can't tell. Let me get my magnifying glass. Oh, shit I forgot whether that word is supposed to be abbreviated. Fuck me, how the hell do you cite a DVD?! Um this quote doesn't come from the book you said it does. Now I have to go on a wild goose hunt to find where it did come from. This goes on for roughly 40-50 hours per article that you citecheck (1 article per issue). Then you come to a page and the author didn't footnote anything. Well that's fine with me you say. But NO. EVERY fucking sentence has to be supported. So you have to find articles and books and cases that say what the author is saying. Meanwhile you have to field questions from your fellow staff members. "Do you know what type of dash we're supposed to use in statutes?" No go fucking clue look it up yourself, and stop slurping your goddamn soup so loudly.

Source Pulling: I get a list of sources that I need to find for an article that will get edited next week. That sounds kind of fun, its like a treasure hunt! Look, these are all cases and journal articles, I can just print these off of westlaw, right? NOO. You have to go find a fucking tangible hard copy of every source cited, just in case westlaw missed a "the." Oh but our library doesn't carry this journal; that means I can just print it off of westlaw right? NO. Go try the library accross town (which takes 35 minutes to get to), sign up for a library card at that library, look to see if they have it, check it out, bring it back here, and don't forget to renew the book when it's due, the journal won't re-imburse you for late fees. Even better, you get a really hard article. "Um, this author is citing Japanese statutes. Do we have those in this library?" Editor: "How should I know?" Me: "oh well I thought since you're in charge of this article you may have some suggestions on where I could find them." Editor: Nope, good luck though Me: can I print it off the web? Editor: No, That's a last resort, come back to me after looking for a week.

Note writing: You pick a topic, its great a subject you're interested in, you can see yourself working on it for a while. You spend tons of time writing it really well. You get your feedback: This needs to be totally re-organized, our journal doesn't allow Notes to be published under any organizational scheme than this one listed in your manual. Me: but my topic can't fit that format. I tried, it ends up being really choppy and doesn't flow well. Note editor: that doesn't matter, it has to be in this format. Me: ok, well do you have any other suggestions? Note Editor: Not really, my Note wasn't very good they wouldn't publish it. Me: wait so you wrote a really bad Note and are now in charge of instructing me on how to write mine? Editor: yes.

This was a pretty hilarious post dude.

It's a goddamn shame you can only bitch about LR on TLS or with other LRers (who tend to be the type of people who would die if they ever didn't have 10+ hours of work to do in a day).

09042014
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:23 pm

I'm considering running for EIC of my journal to start a new trend in legal academia. Just publish what the author sends. Cite check? Nobody reads cites, and if some dumb ass 2L can do it, the reader can figure it out. Grammar? Who cares, the author has a J.D. who am I to tell him how to write. Critic his argument? Not my place.

My journal is lazy enough that this might work. It's already a glorified blog anyway.

goodolgil
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby goodolgil » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:35 pm

blowhard wrote:
goodolgil wrote:The most infuriating thing about associate editor work is how manufactured it is--no journal would actually pay anybody to do this worthless work, but they need something to keep the 40 or so new editors they bring on each year busy. I'm especially thinking of the source gathering process and its hard copy requirement--there is absolutely no way the people writing these articles are using hard copy annotated codes and reporters, yet we're required to hunt these down anyway.

Ed. board work seems a little bit more substantive, but still boring and with a more significant time commitment. I also don't like the idea of 3Ls telling legitimate legal scholars how they should write their articles. I'm sure a lot of articles have lots of room for improvement, but it's a pretty pathetic system compared to actual peer review.


You know you can get almost all hard copies in digital format from Heinonline right? It's just as easy as Westlaw.


Yeah, it's fine for journal articles. It's mostly state statutes that have been a pain in the ass.

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thesealocust
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:24 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
TTH wrote:
Geist13 wrote: You should run for e-board just to save future generations of journal staff from your sperglord predecessors.

I tried to do this. The institutional inertia was too great to overcome, unfortunately. Wouldn't be surprised if others had the same experience.


Sigh. +1.

03121202698008
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:45 pm

goodolgil wrote:
blowhard wrote:
goodolgil wrote:The most infuriating thing about associate editor work is how manufactured it is--no journal would actually pay anybody to do this worthless work, but they need something to keep the 40 or so new editors they bring on each year busy. I'm especially thinking of the source gathering process and its hard copy requirement--there is absolutely no way the people writing these articles are using hard copy annotated codes and reporters, yet we're required to hunt these down anyway.

Ed. board work seems a little bit more substantive, but still boring and with a more significant time commitment. I also don't like the idea of 3Ls telling legitimate legal scholars how they should write their articles. I'm sure a lot of articles have lots of room for improvement, but it's a pretty pathetic system compared to actual peer review.


You know you can get almost all hard copies in digital format from Heinonline right? It's just as easy as Westlaw.


Yeah, it's fine for journal articles. It's mostly state statutes that have been a pain in the ass.


You hardcopy state statutes? Most, if not all, of their official version are online not hardcopy. And, there is no pagination to worry aboutas its by §. Why on earth would you do this? LOL. We use Heinonline to get hardcopies of opinions and journals.

meg5096
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby meg5096 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:11 pm

Geist13 wrote:
TTH wrote:Uh, bros, about all this hard copy shit, you know you can pull pdf images of like every law journal off heinonline, right? You're not actually hunting down bound journals are you?


Trust me we are all well aware of what we should be allowed to do. Hard bound is the journal's policy.


Jesus. I am never bitching about journal work again

goodolgil
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Re: Any benefit to journal e-board positions?

Postby goodolgil » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:19 pm

blowhard wrote:
goodolgil wrote:
blowhard wrote:
goodolgil wrote:The most infuriating thing about associate editor work is how manufactured it is--no journal would actually pay anybody to do this worthless work, but they need something to keep the 40 or so new editors they bring on each year busy. I'm especially thinking of the source gathering process and its hard copy requirement--there is absolutely no way the people writing these articles are using hard copy annotated codes and reporters, yet we're required to hunt these down anyway.

Ed. board work seems a little bit more substantive, but still boring and with a more significant time commitment. I also don't like the idea of 3Ls telling legitimate legal scholars how they should write their articles. I'm sure a lot of articles have lots of room for improvement, but it's a pretty pathetic system compared to actual peer review.


You know you can get almost all hard copies in digital format from Heinonline right? It's just as easy as Westlaw.


Yeah, it's fine for journal articles. It's mostly state statutes that have been a pain in the ass.


You hardcopy state statutes? Most, if not all, of their official version are online not hardcopy. And, there is no pagination to worry aboutas its by §. Why on earth would you do this? LOL. We use Heinonline to get hardcopies of opinions and journals.


Yep, you got me. JLR FTL.

The bolded I wasn't aware of. We were told that some states had their official codes up online, but that most didn't (I think) and I never really bothered to look after that.




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