below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

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so ambivalent
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below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby so ambivalent » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:04 pm

so grades just came in. and i am at a 2.94. the average i think is around a 3.2/3.3. i spoke to a dean about this and she said this puts me in the bottom 20%. with a b-, and 3 straight b's.
i feel pretty depressed about this because i did not slack off 1st semester. i didn't miss a single class or reading, usually briefed/took notes before class. for exams i had two outlines done pretty much by the end of tgiving break. i studied with a group and did every available practice exam that my professors provided and then reviewed the model answers (where available). i did these exams under timed conditions using the exam software. i also used a supplement for civ pro and was pretty good about going to see profs if i had questions. usually i would be studying a minimum of 3 hours a day outside class (more or less depending on workload) and in the weeks before exams when there weren't classes i was working around 11hrs a day.
i have a partial scholly which i'm in no danger of losing. i don't want to work at firms. would be happy at a small firm/secondary mkt or in PI and have no real geographic ties.
it's not like i expected to ace every class but i am pretty disappointed that i did so badly with the effort i put in and it has me questioning if i'm not cut out for law school.
so my questions are:
should i stick it out?
what could i do differently?
how bad are my career prospects right now?

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johansantana21
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby johansantana21 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:05 pm

How much debt will you be in?

If you aren't interested in biglaw, I definitely think you should stick it out. People can improve a lot in one semester.

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bk1
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby bk1 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:07 pm

Did you go over practice exams with your study group?
How different were your practice answers from the model ones (or from your group's if you went over the exams with them)?
Were you burnt out during finals?

so ambivalent
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby so ambivalent » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:12 pm

bk1 wrote:Did you go over practice exams with your study group?
How different were your practice answers from the model ones (or from your group's if you went over the exams with them)?
Were you burnt out during finals?


yep, went over pretty much every prac exam with study group. only had model answers for 2 of the courses (but we went over the prac exams we didn't have model answers for together also). i would usually spot something like 80-95% of the issues on the model answers. sometimes i would miss big ones, but this didn't happen the closer i got to the actual exam date.
i was burnt out, for sure, but no overly so. i stopped working around 6-7pm the night before each final and didn;t have a sleep deficit or anything.

so ambivalent
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby so ambivalent » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:13 pm

johansantana21 wrote:How much debt will you be in?

If you aren't interested in biglaw, I definitely think you should stick it out. People can improve a lot in one semester.


my debt all in will be less than $100k

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beach_terror
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby beach_terror » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:16 pm

Stick it out until the end of the year. You have your work cut out for you. Figure out what you're putting on your exams that's giving you the grades you're getting. It doesn't seem like an effort/studying problem so it's most likely an issue with your exam taking/writing. Luckily, it's not impossible to fix. Get in there and talk to all of your teachers, write down their suggestions and criticisms, and figure out a plan on how to rectify it before exams. Having a list of what you screwed up before will help you not make those mistakes again.

lawskyandhutch
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby lawskyandhutch » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:52 pm

Your situation sounds very similar to mine. It think it's nice to be around median or above when OCI happens, but it's easier said than done. I don't know what the gov't and mid-sized firms are looking for in terms of grades from t15 ppl, so I'd love to see people's responses as well. I'm a 1L too.

waxecstatic
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby waxecstatic » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:15 pm

It's hard to figure out if you're even serious. I doubt anyone would tell you to drop out, and I doubt you would, because it would be pretty stupid if you did.

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johansantana21
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:07 pm

waxecstatic wrote:It's hard to figure out if you're even serious. I doubt anyone would tell you to drop out, and I doubt you would, because it would be pretty stupid if you did.


wut

so ambivalent
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby so ambivalent » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:55 pm

johansantana21 wrote:
waxecstatic wrote:It's hard to figure out if you're even serious. I doubt anyone would tell you to drop out, and I doubt you would, because it would be pretty stupid if you did.


wut


ummmm? am i even serious? about doubting whether law school is for me? hells yea. i think being below median in a shit economy with no idea how to improve is no small worry. but i'd like a candid picture of how much of an issue it is. hence the original post.

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johansantana21
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:02 pm

so ambivalent wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:
waxecstatic wrote:It's hard to figure out if you're even serious. I doubt anyone would tell you to drop out, and I doubt you would, because it would be pretty stupid if you did.


wut


ummmm? am i even serious? about doubting whether law school is for me? hells yea. i think being below median in a shit economy with no idea how to improve is no small worry. but i'd like a candid picture of how much of an issue it is. hence the original post.


It's a big issue. I was saying wut to the poster saying if you are even serious.

so ambivalent
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby so ambivalent » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:17 pm

johansantana21 wrote:
so ambivalent wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:
waxecstatic wrote:It's hard to figure out if you're even serious. I doubt anyone would tell you to drop out, and I doubt you would, because it would be pretty stupid if you did.


wut


ummmm? am i even serious? about doubting whether law school is for me? hells yea. i think being below median in a shit economy with no idea how to improve is no small worry. but i'd like a candid picture of how much of an issue it is. hence the original post.


It's a big issue. I was saying wut to the poster saying if you are even serious.


i was agreeing with you;)

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YourCaptain
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby YourCaptain » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:21 pm

i hate to say it, but stick it out, see where you land come OCI. if you can swing median by the end w/ a 1L summer job, i think youve got a fighting chance

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KMaine
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby KMaine » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:28 pm

Does anybody ever really drop out?

berkeleykel06
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby berkeleykel06 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:37 pm

beach_terror wrote:Stick it out until the end of the year. You have your work cut out for you. Figure out what you're putting on your exams that's giving you the grades you're getting. It doesn't seem like an effort/studying problem so it's most likely an issue with your exam taking/writing. Luckily, it's not impossible to fix. Get in there and talk to all of your teachers, write down their suggestions and criticisms, and figure out a plan on how to rectify it before exams. Having a list of what you screwed up before will help you not make those mistakes again.


This, plus I would start seriously grooming your resume towards PI (if you haven't already) to keep your job options as broad as possible.

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monkey85
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby monkey85 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:45 pm

Don't forget about "Leave of Absence"s

Rather than sticking it out 2nd semester burned out or dropping out, you can also take a break. More than a few people in my 1L section took a leave of absence after first semester due to really bad grades. The reasons ran the gamut, but the appropriate Dean should be able to help you navigate the process. Those people are now back doing 1L all over again - for better or for worse, but at least they have a clean GPA slate.

If you go this route, the school will: (1) allow you to take second semester off; (2) return next fall as a 1L and do things over; [(3) likely also to credit your fall tuition so that you don't have to pay again for next fall].

so ambivalent
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby so ambivalent » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:46 pm

berkeleykel06 wrote:
beach_terror wrote:Stick it out until the end of the year. You have your work cut out for you. Figure out what you're putting on your exams that's giving you the grades you're getting. It doesn't seem like an effort/studying problem so it's most likely an issue with your exam taking/writing. Luckily, it's not impossible to fix. Get in there and talk to all of your teachers, write down their suggestions and criticisms, and figure out a plan on how to rectify it before exams. Having a list of what you screwed up before will help you not make those mistakes again.


This, plus I would start seriously grooming your resume towards PI (if you haven't already) to keep your job options as broad as possible.


what exactly do you mean groom towards PI?

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sunynp
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby sunynp » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:17 pm

KMaine wrote:Does anybody ever really drop out?

Yes people drop out. I think that as true information about employment statistics come out, more people will start cutting their losses and getting out of school before they are crippled by debt.

delusional
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby delusional » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:20 pm

so ambivalent wrote:so grades just came in. and i am at a 2.94. the average i think is around a 3.2/3.3. i spoke to a dean about this and she said this puts me in the bottom 20%. with a b-, and 3 straight b's.
i feel pretty depressed about this because i did not slack off 1st semester. i didn't miss a single class or reading, usually briefed/took notes before class. for exams i had two outlines done pretty much by the end of tgiving break. i studied with a group and did every available practice exam that my professors provided and then reviewed the model answers (where available). i did these exams under timed conditions using the exam software. i also used a supplement for civ pro and was pretty good about going to see profs if i had questions. usually i would be studying a minimum of 3 hours a day outside class (more or less depending on workload) and in the weeks before exams when there weren't classes i was working around 11hrs a day.
i have a partial scholly which i'm in no danger of losing. i don't want to work at firms. would be happy at a small firm/secondary mkt or in PI and have no real geographic ties.
it's not like i expected to ace every class but i am pretty disappointed that i did so badly with the effort i put in and it has me questioning if i'm not cut out for law school.
so my questions are:
should i stick it out?
what could i do differently?
how bad are my career prospects right now?
I don't think that you would be able to make it to class every day and put in the effort if "law school isn't for you". Most likely, based on your characterization, you weren't good at IRACing, or applying the law, or something like that. After all the talk about how law school exams are unpredictable and somehow separate the good future lawyers from the bad, nobody really tells you in advance what separates a good exam from a bad one.

This semester, go to your professors and review the exams with them. See if you understand what they mean when they say you did certain things poorly. See if you can change those things.

If, after this semester, you haven't improved, and you also feel like a career in law is not for you, then maybe it is time to think about alternate plans. Everyone is so quick to say above median at T14 or drop out, but there's a middle ground between that and below median at a t2, and this is that middle ground. If you want to be purely pragmatic, maybe dropping out is a good idea. If you still want to stay in law school because you like it aside from inexplicably doing poorly on exams, that is also reasonable.

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akili
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby akili » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:23 pm

.
Last edited by akili on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

c3pO4
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:24 pm

Are you IP, if so, it's not as bad. Still you can swing biglaw with a 3.0 from a T15. Just aim for lower V100's in your home market (hopefully you aren't from Chicago or DC).

so ambivalent
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby so ambivalent » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:30 pm

c3pO4 wrote:Are you IP, if so, it's not as bad. Still you can swing biglaw with a 3.0 from a T15. Just aim for lower V100's in your home market (hopefully you aren't from Chicago or DC).


no IP. and no real home mkt either....except maybe dc. still screwed?

so ambivalent
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby so ambivalent » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:32 pm

delusional wrote: If you want to be purely pragmatic, maybe dropping out is a good idea. If you still want to stay in law school because you like it aside from inexplicably doing poorly on exams, that is also reasonable.


what do you mean "purely pragmatic"? like, i will be unemployable without improvement?

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lisjjen
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby lisjjen » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:34 pm

Why do people only include V100 in biglaw? Or even NLJ 250? You can still make 160, or at the very least above 100 at any number of firms that aren't listed in either of those lists.

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johansantana21
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Re: below 3.0 at a t15. fml?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:37 pm

lisjjen wrote:Why do people only include V100 in biglaw? Or even NLJ 250? You can still make 160, or at the very least above 100 at any number of firms that aren't listed in either of those lists.


With below 3.0 no IP/URM/great WE at a t15? Keep dreaming...




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