Stayin' alive with a 2.5 Forum

[sunynp]

This thread really depresses me. OP knew how bad his prospects were, but only listened to the people who told him what he wanted to hear. I posted twice in his transfer thread to convince him not to go to NYLS. I guess he didn't only because he got into Brooklyn - not because he listened to any advice. He missed OCI and didn't have any idea how to look for a job. He even has a post denouncing the scam blogs. He even posted in august about how you can get decent studios in manhattan, obviously this was before he found a place to live. I just think OP is beyond help at this point. Maybe he was always a kind of lost cause. It still depresses me a lot.

[Zazelmaf]

OP: what other markets are you interested in besides New York? I'm concerned that you will have no money to live on once you finish school. As you know now, New York is insanely expensive, with no resources you will be in trouble. Moving to New York in this situation was not a smart plan; you won't be able to stay here after you finish school. How will you pay rent, study for the bar, pay for bar review and licensing fees? Where else could you live? Do you have a backup plan?

I am thinking either here or San Francisco. I am considering not working in law, but going into finance. In fact, I am studying mostly financial related law courses. If that does not work, I plan on teaching English abroad with my wife or just getting into an easy to enter industry. I will probably use IBR or something similar to pay my loans back. I have battled with the idea for so long that law may not be the thing for me, or that I have no chance in law. In fact, I don't know if I will even bother with the bar exam, bar review and all that.

As for living in New York, I think I am doing pretty well. I have an extra room I rent out in a pretty nice apartment which makes it now so I only pay a few hundred a month. Granted, it's not in Manhattan, but it's in a very desirable neighborhood. I like it quite a bit.

As for denouncing the scamblogs, I was wrong. I did look at all that with rose colored glasses. I am glad I transferred to NYC though. I could have never found a job at my old school either. My wife is going into teaching, currently has a 4.0 GPA at a good school, as well as some connections.

Then again, there's always the military or peace corps.

Law school always was a losing game for me. I made a horrible decision not in transferring to NYC, not in missing OCI, but in going in the first place.

[thexfactor]

LOL maybe at this point you should just hari kari instead of trying to stay alive with a 2.5. Job hunting with a 2.5 from a t2 is like bringing a stick to a fight where everone else has automatic rifles.

All joking aside....

IBR could take care of it. If he goes over seas ane makes 30k a year, I think his payments are less than 3k a year. After 20 years he is home free.

Anyways, if you are a 3L i would say at this point, finish it out.
If you are a 2L, You should consider quitting law school and just going overseas right now to teach english.

[Zazelmaf]

I am waiting for my wife to finish her undergraduate studies, so she can come with and teach as well. Otherwise, I would gladly drop out today!

[sunynp]

If you are ready to drop out, why not spend all your time now looking for other jobs. As soon as you find something you can drop out. The alternative is to focus on getting some very practical knowledge in specific areas of practice. I'm thinking of things like immigration or Elder Law. Try to find an area you like and get experience in it.

[Lil Kev]

I am waiting for my wife to finish her undergraduate studies, so she can come with and teach as well. Otherwise, I would gladly drop out today!

Drop out now and get a retail job if you can find one.

[stintez]

I think if you are good at networking you will be just fine. Just try and pull the GPA as much as you can.

[Lil Kev]

I think if you are good at networking you will be just fine. Just try and pull the GPA as much as you can.

The OP would have to be more than merely "good" in order to be "just fine."

[JoeFish]

I really have no idea how OP's not a flame. But, in case truth is stranger that fiction, maybe one of us will be the straw that breaks the camel's back in terms of finally convincing you to just pack it in.

I think if you are good at networking you will be just fine. Just try and pull the GPA as much as you can.

Yeah, this is just wrong. We've all seen the whole 50,000 grads, 28,000 jobs, or whatever the hell it is. Your chances of getting a legal job from your school with even a semester at that GPA plus 3 semesters of 4.0s, that is, of not being in that 22,000 or so, are just plain bad. If you're going to have those sorts of chances, you'd better not have 6 figures of debt. But 200k?! That's horrifying. Your expected net gain/loss from this ordeal probably puts you in the bottom 10% or worse of those 50k hapless law grads.

Also: it is very, very unlikely that your grades will jump up way, way past median, which would be necessary to even get people to not laugh at you and hang up when you cold call them. It's possible - you say you had "pretty decent grades", whatever that means (I suppose it means good enough to go to BLS but not transfer into Fordham or Cardozo or something, which, well... speaks for itself - but very unlikely. Listen. The top 10% at most schools, especially as you get outside the T14 and the difference between the abilities of the top and bottom students becomes more pronounced, are in the top 10% because they're smart, good at exams, and good at studying for LS exams, not because they went to every class and memorized what the teacher said. A large fraction of the students in a given school's top 10% could skip every single class, study the textbook, supplements, and previous students' outlines for five days, and write an exam that is at median and in many cases well above. What I'm saying is this: you've admitted that you've taken a very rose-tinted view to all of this. To assume that the difference between a 2.5 and top 10% (or even top 20%) is all of your personal hardships is just not a good assumption.

I'm sorry. But we all keep saying it. 200k in debt for pretty much the rest of your freaking life, if you get a job teaching english overseas, is the kind of thing that sends people into deep depressions that they never escape. You've got to know when to fold 'em.

[Lil Kev]

One of the times that MTal would be very useful.

Really -- just drop out. Unless you have some guaranteed job in a family firm or business, just leave. Do yourself a favor and don't cripple yourself with so much debt. It's even more of a bet than going to law school in the first place. Like you doubled down and are hitting on 19. Just don't do it.

[Lil Kev]

A large fraction of the students in a given school's top 10% could skip every single class, study the textbook, supplements, and previous students' outlines for five days, and write an exam that is at median and in many cases well above. What I'm saying is this: you've admitted that you've taken a very rose-tinted view to all of this. .

I did that and finished in the top 5% of my class. Some people just "get" law school exams. Well, I wouldn't skip class all the time, but too often (IMO). It fucking sucks, but it's true. Law school is a huge, huge bet. After you lose big on the first hand, there is zero reason to play with whatever cash you have left and potentially screw yourself even further.

[Zazelmaf]

I really have no idea how OP's not a flame. But, in case truth is stranger that fiction, maybe one of us will be the straw that breaks the camel's back in terms of finally convincing you to just pack it in.

I think if you are good at networking you will be just fine. Just try and pull the GPA as much as you can.

Yeah, this is just wrong. We've all seen the whole 50,000 grads, 28,000 jobs, or whatever the hell it is. Your chances of getting a legal job from your school with even a semester at that GPA plus 3 semesters of 4.0s, that is, of not being in that 22,000 or so, are just plain bad. If you're going to have those sorts of chances, you'd better not have 6 figures of debt. But 200k?! That's horrifying. Your expected net gain/loss from this ordeal probably puts you in the bottom 10% or worse of those 50k hapless law grads.

Also: it is very, very unlikely that your grades will jump up way, way past median, which would be necessary to even get people to not laugh at you and hang up when you cold call them. It's possible - you say you had "pretty decent grades", whatever that means (I suppose it means good enough to go to BLS but not transfer into Fordham or Cardozo or something, which, well... speaks for itself - but very unlikely. Listen. The top 10% at most schools, especially as you get outside the T14 and the difference between the abilities of the top and bottom students becomes more pronounced, are in the top 10% because they're smart, good at exams, and good at studying for LS exams, not because they went to every class and memorized what the teacher said. A large fraction of the students in a given school's top 10% could skip every single class, study the textbook, supplements, and previous students' outlines for five days, and write an exam that is at median and in many cases well above. What I'm saying is this: you've admitted that you've taken a very rose-tinted view to all of this. To assume that the difference between a 2.5 and top 10% (or even top 20%) is all of your personal hardships is just not a good assumption.

I'm sorry. But we all keep saying it. 200k in debt for pretty much the rest of your freaking life, if you get a job teaching english overseas, is the kind of thing that sends people into deep depressions that they never escape. You've got to know when to fold 'em.

Debt is not a bother to me. I have lived with debt much of my life, and to be honest, I barely flinch. What bothers me is time wasted, and that's what annoys me about law school. I feel like I'm wasting my time.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Debt is not a bother to me. I have lived with debt much of my life, and to be honest, I barely flinch. What bothers me is time wasted, and that's what annoys me about law school. I feel like I'm wasting my time.

How's your wife feel about that? Or does she still think you're going to be an attorney, which = $?

[bartleby]

I really have no idea how OP's not a flame. But, in case truth is stranger that fiction, maybe one of us will be the straw that breaks the camel's back in terms of finally convincing you to just pack it in.

I think if you are good at networking you will be just fine. Just try and pull the GPA as much as you can.

Yeah, this is just wrong. We've all seen the whole 50,000 grads, 28,000 jobs, or whatever the hell it is. Your chances of getting a legal job from your school with even a semester at that GPA plus 3 semesters of 4.0s, that is, of not being in that 22,000 or so, are just plain bad. If you're going to have those sorts of chances, you'd better not have 6 figures of debt. But 200k?! That's horrifying. Your expected net gain/loss from this ordeal probably puts you in the bottom 10% or worse of those 50k hapless law grads.

Also: it is very, very unlikely that your grades will jump up way, way past median, which would be necessary to even get people to not laugh at you and hang up when you cold call them. It's possible - you say you had "pretty decent grades", whatever that means (I suppose it means good enough to go to BLS but not transfer into Fordham or Cardozo or something, which, well... speaks for itself - but very unlikely. Listen. The top 10% at most schools, especially as you get outside the T14 and the difference between the abilities of the top and bottom students becomes more pronounced, are in the top 10% because they're smart, good at exams, and good at studying for LS exams, not because they went to every class and memorized what the teacher said. A large fraction of the students in a given school's top 10% could skip every single class, study the textbook, supplements, and previous students' outlines for five days, and write an exam that is at median and in many cases well above. What I'm saying is this: you've admitted that you've taken a very rose-tinted view to all of this. To assume that the difference between a 2.5 and top 10% (or even top 20%) is all of your personal hardships is just not a good assumption.

I'm sorry. But we all keep saying it. 200k in debt for pretty much the rest of your freaking life, if you get a job teaching english overseas, is the kind of thing that sends people into deep depressions that they never escape. You've got to know when to fold 'em.

Debt is not a bother to me. I have lived with debt much of my life, and to be honest, I barely flinch. What bothers me is time wasted, and that's what annoys me about law school. I feel like I'm wasting my time.

you need to take debt more seriously.

[sunynp]

You are right, you are wasting your time in law school. You need to focus on getting a job--any job-- with the credentials you have now. You aren't planning to practice law. You can't live off loans forever.

If you have to get student loans to live, you could even drop out and go back and get a second undergrad degree using loans. You could even study Spanish in community college or something. Just minimize your debt and get out of law school.

Maybe this time OP will listen to some advice from here?

OP you may be happy living abroad and teaching English for now, but what about when you have a family? Try to think long term on this one. This debt will be with you for the rest of your life.

[Zazelmaf]

You are right, you are wasting your time in law school. You need to focus on getting a job--any job-- with the credentials you have now. You aren't planning to practice law. You can't live off loans forever.

If you have to get student loans to live, you could even drop out and go back and get a second undergrad degree using loans. You could even study Spanish in community college or something. Just minimize your debt and get out of law school.

Maybe this time OP will listen to some advice from here?

OP you may be happy living abroad and teaching English for now, but what about when you have a family? Try to think long term on this one. This debt will be with you for the rest of your life.

We don't want children, and having been married for 11 years, it has always been that way.

[dreakol]

I really have no idea how OP's not a flame. But, in case truth is stranger that fiction, maybe one of us will be the straw that breaks the camel's back in terms of finally convincing you to just pack it in.

I think if you are good at networking you will be just fine. Just try and pull the GPA as much as you can.

Yeah, this is just wrong. We've all seen the whole 50,000 grads, 28,000 jobs, or whatever the hell it is. Your chances of getting a legal job from your school with even a semester at that GPA plus 3 semesters of 4.0s, that is, of not being in that 22,000 or so, are just plain bad. If you're going to have those sorts of chances, you'd better not have 6 figures of debt. But 200k?! That's horrifying. Your expected net gain/loss from this ordeal probably puts you in the bottom 10% or worse of those 50k hapless law grads.

Also: it is very, very unlikely that your grades will jump up way, way past median, which would be necessary to even get people to not laugh at you and hang up when you cold call them. It's possible - you say you had "pretty decent grades", whatever that means (I suppose it means good enough to go to BLS but not transfer into Fordham or Cardozo or something, which, well... speaks for itself - but very unlikely. Listen. The top 10% at most schools, especially as you get outside the T14 and the difference between the abilities of the top and bottom students becomes more pronounced, are in the top 10% because they're smart, good at exams, and good at studying for LS exams, not because they went to every class and memorized what the teacher said. A large fraction of the students in a given school's top 10% could skip every single class, study the textbook, supplements, and previous students' outlines for five days, and write an exam that is at median and in many cases well above. What I'm saying is this: you've admitted that you've taken a very rose-tinted view to all of this. To assume that the difference between a 2.5 and top 10% (or even top 20%) is all of your personal hardships is just not a good assumption.

I'm sorry. But we all keep saying it. 200k in debt for pretty much the rest of your freaking life, if you get a job teaching english overseas, is the kind of thing that sends people into deep depressions that they never escape. You've got to know when to fold 'em.

lol

[3|ink]

This thread title cracks me up every time.

[pupperoni]

wow, just wow. i have no pity for those who continue to attend TTTs with 200K in loans and those who continue to do so after getting bad grades. i am not disturbed by the OP since i think no one can possibly be this foolish, but i am very surprised with some of the advice others are giving such as "stick with it, focus on networking". i am going to assume that those who are giving such terrible advice are other students from TTTs still living with massive delusions and trying to make themselves feel better. i cannot possibly understand why ppl throw their well-beings away even when there is so much information out there yelling at you to not attend TT/TTTs even with full scholarships.

OP, you need to drop out if you are real. if you want to marry your girlfriend, why would you burden her with your loans as well with your stubbornness?

[Zazelmaf]

The real reason I don't drop out is because I don't know how to go about finding a job. I have never worked a real job, and the idea of trying to find one scares me to death.

[jrthor10]

The real reason I don't drop out is because I don't know how to go about finding a job. I have never worked a real job, and the idea of trying to find one scares me to death.

This is a poor reason not to drop out.

Also, not trying to be a dick, but I just spent 10 minutes looking through your past posts. You have asked for advice on 3+ occasions, been given it, and then chosen to ignore it. So....why are you posting on here? Just a question.

Lastly, I agree with OP's that you seem to have little to no idea how crippling this debt is going to be in your life, especially without a job that pays six figures, or even decent 5 figures. Get out of law school. Now. Soon. Move away from the city and find a decent job. As shitty and non-impressive as working at Starbucks sounds, you'll have solid income and health care. That sounds better than the shit storm you currently find yourself in.

[Kabuo]

The real reason I don't drop out is because I don't know how to go about finding a job. I have never worked a real job, and the idea of trying to find one scares me to death.

This has to confirm flame, right? Weird that other posts make it look legit, but this is just impossible.

[pupperoni]

i am starting to believe that this guy is just downright incompetent and lazy.

[I.P. Daly]

The real reason I don't drop out is because I don't know how to go about finding a job. I have never worked a real job, and the idea of trying to find one scares me to death.

This has to confirm flame, right? Weird that other posts make it look legit, but this is just impossible.

Fake or sarcastic.

[Zazelmaf]

I don't get how you think this is a flame. The job market is horrible. I have never worked in a real job out of undergraduate. My experience is pretty much nil in the outside world, and yes, I am scared about finding a job. No, I never networked in undergrad, even though I should have. But I did not. All I hear from everywhere I go is that the job market sucks for everything and that people are moving in with their parents. I don't have that option. I am married and live 3000 miles from home. Nor would I take that option, ever, under any circumstance.

Last night, when I saw that my class rank was in the bottom 98% after transferring and being in the top 18% I realized that my chances of working in a firm of any kind are done. I realized that I am going to have to go out now and find a job. But, like I said, I have no idea how to go about it. I have sent resumes out via Craigslist, monster, etc. I have gone to employment agencies in the past, but I am usually lacking something (college degree, experience, etc.). So, what does one have to do to get a decent job to actually use their degree? Hell, not even Starbucks will get back to me!

My only option seems to be teaching English overseas, and to be honest, it seems better than not being able to get a job at Starbucks or McDonalds.