Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

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Theking28
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Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:00 pm

Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby Theking28 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:21 am

I am at a tier two on a full ride. Have to keep at least a 3.1

With one class left my gpa is a 2.5. I have come to terms with no summer employment and wont even be applying. My grades were much worse than I expected. I studied hard and followed leews

Should i wait it out or is my life over ?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:30 am

What's your class rank? (If you don't know, what's the curve?) How much is sticker? Is your school the strongest school in the area? (And do you want to work in this area?) When is tuition due and when is the latest time that your last grade should be expected to be submitted?

Your question doesn't have a universal answer, but it seems like that "drop out" may be the best advice for you. (I would want to see my last grade, especially because that could change things drastically.)

Theking28
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby Theking28 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:42 am

I believe the curve is 3.0...

I would not pay for this school. Its behind a top 10 school in the market

FML. I seriously dont know how i did this bad. Is there any point in sticking around for a second semester and trying to keep the scholly ?

duckmoney
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby duckmoney » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:45 am

How much is cost-of-living costing you? Are your parents covering or are you on loans? Parents = stay, loans = drop out now.

Also, what are your other options? Sit on your ass in your mom's house eating cheetos = stay, have a job lined up = drop out now.

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NYCbound35
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby NYCbound35 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:48 am

Theking28 wrote:I believe the curve is 3.0...

I would not pay for this school. Its behind a top 10 school in the market

FML. I seriously dont know how i did this bad. Is there any point in sticking around for a second semester and trying to keep the scholly ?


You have a full ride, calm down for now. If you dropped out, do you have a job available right away? I'm guessing probably not. Wait it out and work your ass off for this semester. Look for work (both a summer legal job and a possible full time job in an alternate career path). See what kind of things you have lined up, look at your grades, and reassess in 5 months. You're going to have to pay for living expenses anyway, so make sure that you squeezed all of the juice out of your law school chances.

Theking28
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby Theking28 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:43 am

Yeah I have no options. I was set on law. Is there anyway to drop.out and re apply to schools?

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Always Credited
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby Always Credited » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:51 am

I'm pretty sure once you receive grades, those grades stick with you - so you can't "redo" first semester at another school.

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D'Angelo
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby D'Angelo » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:52 am

You seem fairly quick to jump ship for being set on law. The above poster's advice sounds pretty solid to me.

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Always Credited
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby Always Credited » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:45 pm

Theking28 wrote:Yeah I have no options. I was set on law. Is there anyway to drop.out and re apply to schools?


Its important to think carefully about whether you were set on law, or whether you were set on money. If money...yes, drop out. Your chances of biglaw are very slim, and you should save yourself from additional debt.

But if law is really your interest - not just BIGlaw - then why deprive yourself of the opportunity to do what you enjoy? Yes, jobs are difficult to get now. Yes, you'll be starting out at a comparative disadvantage to your peers and those at better schools. But although the legal market isn't large enough to absorb all graduates of all schools, its not tiny either...and you aren't at a bad school.

Why did you come to law school in the first place? Was it to be a prosecutor? Public Defender? Some other advocate? Interest in a particular area of civil litigation? Prospect of a solid living through law? Money? Or was it just that you took liberal arts classes in college, didn't want to live in a basement, so you applied to law school?

This question must be answered and should play a large role in your decision going forward.

MrAnon
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:49 pm

Sounds like the options are quit law and go find an entry level job that pays about 40k or continue on until you get a law job that pays 40k. Probably the first option is better.

reverendt
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby reverendt » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:51 pm

They probably won't reassess your scholly until the end of the year. If so, you can do the spring semester without paying for it. I'd do that. Try a different approach. Maybe you can pull your grades up enough that you save the scholly.
If not, you at least get a free semester of legal education....which will never hurt you in life.

Theking28
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby Theking28 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:54 pm

I actually had a passion for law. I dont care about money or big law. I wanted to get into prosecution or public defense. I just feel like i cant continue on, while paying 35 k for the last twp years. I'm probably overreacting and should just suck it up and try to keep my scholarship

And I didnt mean re doing first semester. I mean picking up where i left off at a different school that has better prospects. I regret not picking wisconsin

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Always Credited
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby Always Credited » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:12 pm

Theking28 wrote:I actually had a passion for law. I dont care about money or big law. I wanted to get into prosecution or public defense. I just feel like i cant continue on, while paying 35 k for the last twp years. I'm probably overreacting and should just suck it up and try to keep my scholarship

And I didnt mean re doing first semester. I mean picking up where i left off at a different school that has better prospects. I regret not picking wisconsin


Picking up at a different school is theoretically possible, but after receiving grades from the first school you have to transfer to the second rather than simply "reapply". With average/below average grades, a transfer is unlikely - although transferring to a lower school may be possible, we don't know for sure as there isn't really any data on this kind of transfer. Also, it probably wouldn't give you "better prospects".

If you want prosecution or PD, this can be done with lower than average grades. Don't confuse this with "those jobs are easy to get" - they aren't - the barriers to entry are simply different and not 100% grades based. I'll tell you from firsthand knowledge (as someone who is going to work at a DA office in a major market) that there are three distinct steps in prosecution/PD hiring:
1.) Experience with the target office specifically, and second to that, experience with DA/PD offices generally. Work for free at a particular office for both summers, and the chances of permanent employment skyrocket. This is true for two reasons: first, your genuine interest in the work has been demonstrated. Second, you likely have more experience than the other possible recruits which cuts down the "orientation" period dramatically.

2.) The interview. Unlike other areas of law where the interviews may be mere formalities to weed out serial killers and weirdos, the interview at DA's offices (especially large offices) will be more of a test than an interview. You'll be asked hypothetical questions of criminal procedure and law, the answers to which may determine whether or not you're given an offer. I watched a 3.8+ applicant bomb an interview and be dropped right then and there for someone who had barely a 3.0, but performed much better on the interview. Why? The 3.0 had taken crim pro I and II, as well as other high level criminal classes, while the other hadn't.

3.) Specific grades in certain classes. This ties partly into 2.), but deserves its own slot. Believe me when I say this: no DA office will care about a C in torts or a B in civ pro, because you'll never need to know or use torts or civ pro again in that line of work. They do, however, care to a much greater degree about your grades in: Criminal Law, Criminal Procedure I and II, Trial Advocacy, and any other criminal courses you take. A's and A-'s in these courses can make or break you, and can make up for lackluster grades in other courses...they can even make up for an otherwise sub-par GPA. When I asked one of the bureau chiefs what she would rather see, a 3.9 with non-criminal classes and/or average grades in criminal classes, or a 3.2 with stellar grades in all relevant criminal courses, she told me the decision was easy - the 3.2 all day, every day.

So the moral is this: if you really want DA/PD work, you can do it. Just don't f*** up the criminal classes, pick an office and dedicate yourself to it, and do good work while you're there.

If you're serious about criminal work - and you better be, because if I wrote all this for nothing I'm going to kick the shit out of you - you're not at all out of the game.

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sunynp
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby sunynp » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:44 pm

I think that you have no idea what you did wrong is a problem. If you can keep the scholarship for next semester than I guess you should stay. But you must do two things- go over every exam in detail with the professors. Maybe you made some basic errors in studying and final prep. The second thing is to get practice exams for each of your second semester classes. Do practice exams and go over them with your professors.

random5483
Posts: 684
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Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby random5483 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:42 pm

If you have high costs for rent/etc, consider dropping out. Otherwise, consider riding it through. Try to learn from your mistakes and do better next semester. Look for summer jobs, even poor performing students have a shot at some 1L summer jobs.

Theking28
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:00 pm

Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby Theking28 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:23 pm

Always Credited wrote:
Theking28 wrote:I actually had a passion for law. I dont care about money or big law. I wanted to get into prosecution or public defense. I just feel like i cant continue on, while paying 35 k for the last twp years. I'm probably overreacting and should just suck it up and try to keep my scholarship

And I didnt mean re doing first semester. I mean picking up where i left off at a different school that has better prospects. I regret not picking wisconsin


Picking up at a different school is theoretically possible, but after receiving grades from the first school you have to transfer to the second rather than simply "reapply". With average/below average grades, a transfer is unlikely - although transferring to a lower school may be possible, we don't know for sure as there isn't really any data on this kind of transfer. Also, it probably wouldn't give you "better prospects".

If you want prosecution or PD, this can be done with lower than average grades. Don't confuse this with "those jobs are easy to get" - they aren't - the barriers to entry are simply different and not 100% grades based. I'll tell you from firsthand knowledge (as someone who is going to work at a DA office in a major market) that there are three distinct steps in prosecution/PD hiring:
1.) Experience with the target office specifically, and second to that, experience with DA/PD offices generally. Work for free at a particular office for both summers, and the chances of permanent employment skyrocket. This is true for two reasons: first, your genuine interest in the work has been demonstrated. Second, you likely have more experience than the other possible recruits which cuts down the "orientation" period dramatically.

2.) The interview. Unlike other areas of law where the interviews may be mere formalities to weed out serial killers and weirdos, the interview at DA's offices (especially large offices) will be more of a test than an interview. You'll be asked hypothetical questions of criminal procedure and law, the answers to which may determine whether or not you're given an offer. I watched a 3.8+ applicant bomb an interview and be dropped right then and there for someone who had barely a 3.0, but performed much better on the interview. Why? The 3.0 had taken crim pro I and II, as well as other high level criminal classes, while the other hadn't.

3.) Specific grades in certain classes. This ties partly into 2.), but deserves its own slot. Believe me when I say this: no DA office will care about a C in torts or a B in civ pro, because you'll never need to know or use torts or civ pro again in that line of work. They do, however, care to a much greater degree about your grades in: Criminal Law, Criminal Procedure I and II, Trial Advocacy, and any other criminal courses you take. A's and A-'s in these courses can make or break you, and can make up for lackluster grades in other courses...they can even make up for an otherwise sub-par GPA. When I asked one of the bureau chiefs what she would rather see, a 3.9 with non-criminal classes and/or average grades in criminal classes, or a 3.2 with stellar grades in all relevant criminal courses, she told me the decision was easy - the 3.2 all day, every day.

So the moral is this: if you really want DA/PD work, you can do it. Just don't f*** up the criminal classes, pick an office and dedicate yourself to it, and do good work while you're there.

If you're serious about criminal work - and you better be, because if I wrote all this for nothing I'm going to kick the shit out of you - you're not at all out of the game.

this was great. many thanks. And thank you to everyone else for the advice

charliep
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:36 pm

Re: Seriously considering dropping out after first semester

Postby charliep » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:40 pm

Theking28 wrote:
Always Credited wrote:
Theking28 wrote:I actually had a passion for law. I dont care about money or big law. I wanted to get into prosecution or public defense. I just feel like i cant continue on, while paying 35 k for the last twp years. I'm probably overreacting and should just suck it up and try to keep my scholarship

And I didnt mean re doing first semester. I mean picking up where i left off at a different school that has better prospects. I regret not picking wisconsin


Picking up at a different school is theoretically possible, but after receiving grades from the first school you have to transfer to the second rather than simply "reapply". With average/below average grades, a transfer is unlikely - although transferring to a lower school may be possible, we don't know for sure as there isn't really any data on this kind of transfer. Also, it probably wouldn't give you "better prospects".

If you want prosecution or PD, this can be done with lower than average grades. Don't confuse this with "those jobs are easy to get" - they aren't - the barriers to entry are simply different and not 100% grades based. I'll tell you from firsthand knowledge (as someone who is going to work at a DA office in a major market) that there are three distinct steps in prosecution/PD hiring:
1.) Experience with the target office specifically, and second to that, experience with DA/PD offices generally. Work for free at a particular office for both summers, and the chances of permanent employment skyrocket. This is true for two reasons: first, your genuine interest in the work has been demonstrated. Second, you likely have more experience than the other possible recruits which cuts down the "orientation" period dramatically.

2.) The interview. Unlike other areas of law where the interviews may be mere formalities to weed out serial killers and weirdos, the interview at DA's offices (especially large offices) will be more of a test than an interview. You'll be asked hypothetical questions of criminal procedure and law, the answers to which may determine whether or not you're given an offer. I watched a 3.8+ applicant bomb an interview and be dropped right then and there for someone who had barely a 3.0, but performed much better on the interview. Why? The 3.0 had taken crim pro I and II, as well as other high level criminal classes, while the other hadn't.

3.) Specific grades in certain classes. This ties partly into 2.), but deserves its own slot. Believe me when I say this: no DA office will care about a C in torts or a B in civ pro, because you'll never need to know or use torts or civ pro again in that line of work. They do, however, care to a much greater degree about your grades in: Criminal Law, Criminal Procedure I and II, Trial Advocacy, and any other criminal courses you take. A's and A-'s in these courses can make or break you, and can make up for lackluster grades in other courses...they can even make up for an otherwise sub-par GPA. When I asked one of the bureau chiefs what she would rather see, a 3.9 with non-criminal classes and/or average grades in criminal classes, or a 3.2 with stellar grades in all relevant criminal courses, she told me the decision was easy - the 3.2 all day, every day.

So the moral is this: if you really want DA/PD work, you can do it. Just don't f*** up the criminal classes, pick an office and dedicate yourself to it, and do good work while you're there.

If you're serious about criminal work - and you better be, because if I wrote all this for nothing I'm going to kick the shit out of you - you're not at all out of the game.

this was great. many thanks. And thank you to everyone else for the advice


great information. this has the makings of an article




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