Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

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I.P. Daly
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby I.P. Daly » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:51 pm

KMaine wrote:<<<< Thinks we should stop worrying about shit we can't control. Are there some people who abuse the system at some schools on some occasions? I guess. Does it matter in the big scheme of things? Probably not. In any case, you can't change the policy so . . .


I initially had doubts about the reasonable accommodation thing. It seemed like a lot of the kids that qualified for reasonable accommodations (extra time) did extremely well on exams. However, the same kids totally rocked their summer associate jigs and got offers. Thus, I guess it all works out in the end.

nymario
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby nymario » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:13 pm

I weighed in some time ago on a different thread about this topic, so I'll take a pass this time. But I will share a story about my Conflicts exam today. The student who got time and a half told me she confused the exam software's "character count" (which is always displayed) with the "word count" (which is not) and turned in a 900 word exam (limit=3600). Ouch. Whether or not the accommodation is legit (I think it is), you've got to feel for someone in that situation.

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ben4847
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby ben4847 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:18 pm

nymario wrote:I weighed in some time ago on a different thread about this topic, so I'll take a pass this time. But I will share a story about my Conflicts exam today. The student who got time and a half told me she confused the exam software's "character count" (which is always displayed) with the "word count" (which is not) and turned in a 900 word exam (limit=3600). Ouch. Whether or not the accommodation is legit (I think it is), you've got to feel for someone in that situation.


I think what you meant to say was "bump".

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kristinmarieUA
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby kristinmarieUA » Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:20 pm

Eliyahu7 wrote:I was diagnosed with ADD in the second grade. I never asked for a freebie or needed one. No judge is ever gonna give me an exception, so why would I want to be accommodated in the learning stage?

I concur

I know a few people that got extra time and it absolutely infuriates me.
No room for retarded lawyers.
Sorry I'm not sorry.

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alicrimson
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby alicrimson » Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:04 am

kristinmarieUA wrote:
Eliyahu7 wrote:I was diagnosed with ADD in the second grade. I never asked for a freebie or needed one. No judge is ever gonna give me an exception, so why would I want to be accommodated in the learning stage?

I concur

I know a few people that got extra time and it absolutely infuriates me.
No room for retarded lawyers.
Sorry I'm not sorry.


ADD and retardation are not the same thing. You're ignorant. Sorry, I'm not sorry.

As for extra time, I was diagnosed with ADHD in kindergarten and I have not once asked for extra time. People with ADD/ADHD should get on a regular med schedule (If they choose to go that route. Its not impossible to control and some claim that diet can have a tremendous positive effect on ADD) and take the test with the rest of the students. The medicine, in itself, should be enough to "level the playing field" so to speak. This, of course, is assuming the field needs leveling. Just because someone is ADD/ADHD does not mean they are a poor student. As for "tricking" employers, one can be on a vyvanse or aderall in the working world. I understand the time constraint concerns when students are given extra time because of disabilities...but I think instead of looking for people to blame because they get special advantages, people should just focus on themselves. It really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme. Plus, if it bothers you that much, doctors are handing out the ADD meds like candy these days. Just saying.

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kristinmarieUA
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby kristinmarieUA » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:10 pm

alicrimson wrote:
kristinmarieUA wrote:
Eliyahu7 wrote:I was diagnosed with ADD in the second grade. I never asked for a freebie or needed one. No judge is ever gonna give me an exception, so why would I want to be accommodated in the learning stage?

I concur

I know a few people that got extra time and it absolutely infuriates me.
No room for retarded lawyers.
Sorry I'm not sorry.


ADD and retardation are not the same thing. You're ignorant. Sorry, I'm not sorry.

As for extra time, I was diagnosed with ADHD in kindergarten and I have not once asked for extra time. People with ADD/ADHD should get on a regular med schedule (If they choose to go that route. Its not impossible to control and some claim that diet can have a tremendous positive effect on ADD) and take the test with the rest of the students. The medicine, in itself, should be enough to "level the playing field" so to speak. This, of course, is assuming the field needs leveling. Just because someone is ADD/ADHD does not mean they are a poor student. As for "tricking" employers, one can be on a vyvanse or aderall in the working world. I understand the time constraint concerns when students are given extra time because of disabilities...but I think instead of looking for people to blame because they get special advantages, people should just focus on themselves. It really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme. Plus, if it bothers you that much, doctors are handing out the ADD meds like candy these days. Just saying.


Sarcasm and speaking literally are not not the same thing. You lack a sense of humor. Sorry, I'm not sorry.
http://people.howstuffworks.com/sarcasm.htm

Diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 8, I'm on vyvanse. Chill out, this is the internets.
Oh and I would never ask for extra time on an exam, that's cheating IMO.

LAFALCON
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby LAFALCON » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:13 am

Most of you seem to be very ignorant about what it means to be disabled--the stereotypes here are awful and most of the responses to this post really disgust me. My boyfriend has cerebral palsy and because of this he was allowed extra time on the LSAT and will most likely receive accommodations throughout law school. This has nothing to do with how smart he is or is not; it only has to do with how quickly he is able to actually write because of muscle neuropathy. He went to Stanford for undergrad and scored very well on the LSAT and will most likely be going to a great law school. And he deserves it.

In regards to the LSAT accommodations, they took time and effort to get. Even though his disability is well documented and unchanging, he still had to be evaluated by his doctor's, provide letters from them, etc. In addition, many people who would be approved for accommodations fail to seek them about because of stigma attached to them.

As far as employment goes, it is much more difficult for disabled individuals to find employment, even when they are well qualified and capable. A lot of this has to do with stereotypes.

Here is some info about employment for people with disabilities: "Persons with a disability who had completed higher levels of education were more likely to be employed in 2010 than those with less education. However, at each level of education, persons with a disability were much less likely to be employed than were their counterparts with no disability. (Because many people age 16 to 24 are still completing their education, data on educational attainment are shown for those age 25 and over.) (See table 1.)"

Also, the biggest obstacles faced by the disabled are not physical, but others’ attitudes and misconceptions shaped by stereotypes. Unfortunately, these barriers are often reflected in the classroom and the workplace... and here, sadly.

The ADA is not very effective in terms of providing employment accommodations and has been recently amended, but there is still a lot of work to be done and progress to be made in terms of disability rights.

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IAFG
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby IAFG » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:18 am

LAFALCON wrote:Most of you seem to be very ignorant about what it means to be disabled--the stereotypes here are awful and most of the responses to this post really disgust me. My boyfriend has cerebral palsy and because of this he was allowed extra time on the LSAT and will most likely receive accommodations throughout law school. This has nothing to do with how smart he is or is not; it only has to do with how quickly he is able to actually write because of muscle neuropathy. He went to Stanford for undergrad and scored very well on the LSAT and will most likely be going to a great law school. And he deserves it.

In regards to the LSAT accommodations, they took time and effort to get. Even though his disability is well documented and unchanging, he still had to be evaluated by his doctor's, provide letters from them, etc. In addition, many people who would be approved for accommodations fail to seek them about because of stigma attached to them.

As far as employment goes, it is much more difficult for disabled individuals to find employment, even when they are well qualified and capable. A lot of this has to do with stereotypes.

Here is some info about employment for people with disabilities: "Persons with a disability who had completed higher levels of education were more likely to be employed in 2010 than those with less education. However, at each level of education, persons with a disability were much less likely to be employed than were their counterparts with no disability. (Because many people age 16 to 24 are still completing their education, data on educational attainment are shown for those age 25 and over.) (See table 1.)"

Also, the biggest obstacles faced by the disabled are not physical, but others’ attitudes and misconceptions shaped by stereotypes. Unfortunately, these barriers are often reflected in the classroom and the workplace... and here, sadly.

The ADA is not very effective in terms of providing employment accommodations and has been recently amended, but there is still a lot of work to be done and progress to be made in terms of disability rights.

Oh jesus christ. If you are going to quote a source and include the reference to a table, link to the source.

Furthermore, maybe they're more likely to be unemployed not solely because of stereotypes, but also inability to keep up with the pace of corporate America? Listen, I don't agree with America's worship of corporate profits, but it seems the more reasonable explanation is profitability, not discrimination.

bartleby
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby bartleby » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:33 am

don't think they should get extra time. i know a ton of people in my section were on all kinds of adhd drugs (which i imagine they got legally) but was so wound up for my final exams that i didn't really scan the room to see if they were there. lol

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CactusPuppy
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby CactusPuppy » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:42 am

kristinmarieUA wrote:
Eliyahu7 wrote:I was diagnosed with ADD in the second grade. I never asked for a freebie or needed one. No judge is ever gonna give me an exception, so why would I want to be accommodated in the learning stage?

I concur

I know a few people that got extra time and it absolutely infuriates me.
No room for retarded lawyers.
Sorry I'm not sorry.


Dumbest post I've ever read on here. The problem with the cognitively disabled is that they require more TIME to process complex information as opposed to many dumbasses at fourth tier schools who cannot process complex information no matter how much time they have.

Extended time is good, and LSAC needs to stop red flagging xtended takers (SAT/ACT stopped years ago).


med community needs to do something about that over-diagnosis problem tho

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kristinmarieUA
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby kristinmarieUA » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:38 am

CactusPuppy wrote:
kristinmarieUA wrote:
Eliyahu7 wrote:I was diagnosed with ADD in the second grade. I never asked for a freebie or needed one. No judge is ever gonna give me an exception, so why would I want to be accommodated in the learning stage?

I concur

I know a few people that got extra time and it absolutely infuriates me.
No room for retarded lawyers.
Sorry I'm not sorry.


Dumbest post I've ever read on here. The problem with the cognitively disabled is that they require more TIME to process complex information as opposed to many dumbasses at fourth tier schools who cannot process complex information no matter how much time they have.

Extended time is good, and LSAC needs to stop red flagging xtended takers (SAT/ACT stopped years ago).


med community needs to do something about that over-diagnosis problem tho


ONCE AGAIN
I was kidding, chill out.
http://people.howstuffworks.com/sarcasm.htm

STLMizzou
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby STLMizzou » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:58 am

LAFALCON wrote:Most of you seem to be very ignorant about what it means to be disabled--the stereotypes here are awful and most of the responses to this post really disgust me. My boyfriend has cerebral palsy and because of this he was allowed extra time on the LSAT and will most likely receive accommodations throughout law school. This has nothing to do with how smart he is or is not; it only has to do with how quickly he is able to actually write because of muscle neuropathy. He went to Stanford for undergrad and scored very well on the LSAT and will most likely be going to a great law school. And he deserves it.

In regards to the LSAT accommodations, they took time and effort to get. Even though his disability is well documented and unchanging, he still had to be evaluated by his doctor's, provide letters from them, etc. In addition, many people who would be approved for accommodations fail to seek them about because of stigma attached to them.

As far as employment goes, it is much more difficult for disabled individuals to find employment, even when they are well qualified and capable. A lot of this has to do with stereotypes.

Here is some info about employment for people with disabilities: "Persons with a disability who had completed higher levels of education were more likely to be employed in 2010 than those with less education. However, at each level of education, persons with a disability were much less likely to be employed than were their counterparts with no disability. (Because many people age 16 to 24 are still completing their education, data on educational attainment are shown for those age 25 and over.) (See table 1.)"

Also, the biggest obstacles faced by the disabled are not physical, but others’ attitudes and misconceptions shaped by stereotypes. Unfortunately, these barriers are often reflected in the classroom and the workplace... and here, sadly.

The ADA is not very effective in terms of providing employment accommodations and has been recently amended, but there is still a lot of work to be done and progress to be made in terms of disability rights.




I get what you are saying, I really do, but advanced careers such as being a practicing attorney are competitive occupations. A person in a wheel chair cannot play in the NFL, a person with a low IQ cannot be an astrophysicist, and a person who cannot complete the same assignment in the same amount of time as his peers cannot be expected to perform at their level come real-world.

I am not saying people with disabilities like ADHD, Cerebral Palsey, Aspergers, or Autism are not capable as being just as intelligent and hard working as any person without that disability. I am saying if they are not treated the same; they cannot be expected to perform the same.

I am sorry for being blunt/rude, but why on Earth would a top firm hire a person like your boyfriend? They can easily find somebody just as smart and hardworking, but this other person they can fire for not getting their work done in time without getting an ADA lawsuit on their hands. This other person would be a normal first year who they could heap tons of busy work on and could still be reasonably expected to finish it by the deadline. By hiring your boyfriend they will have one less person on their payroll that can do what the same person on their competitor’s payroll can do.

If you can’t work as fast as your competition, then the only solution is that you have to work harder and be smarter than them to the extent that you would make a better employee than they would. Is this unfair? Hell yes. Is it wrong? Yes it is. However, this is simply the way the world works.

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CactusPuppy
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby CactusPuppy » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:01 pm

kristinmarieUA wrote:ONCE AGAIN
I was kidding, chill out.
http://people.howstuffworks.com/sarcasm.htm


Text on a screen... took it literally

ToTransferOrNot
Posts: 1928
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:08 pm

In a career based on the billable hour, where inefficient work means partners are going to have to write off more of your time - clients will refuse to pay 1.5 hours when the task should have taken 1 hour; courts will refuse to approve similar fee applications - getting extra time doesn't make sense.

And I'm not going to hedge: there's nothing wrong about that. Someone who takes longer to do X task is less valuable to a firm. Firms should have a way of identifying people who would be less valuable to them; grades are treated as a proxy for value, and firms should be entitled to the information.

I suppose another way to deal with this would be for a firm to pay someone who takes longer to do X proportionately less, so that the RPL for that individual evens out. But I'm sure people would scream about discrimination there.

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kristinmarieUA
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby kristinmarieUA » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:07 pm

CactusPuppy wrote:
kristinmarieUA wrote:ONCE AGAIN
I was kidding, chill out.
http://people.howstuffworks.com/sarcasm.htm


Text on a screen... took it literally

Yeah nope, not going to be PC on here.
Get enough of that in my daily life.

How to fix
1) Locate stick in butt
2) Remove
3) Take a joke

This is the internet.

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D'Angelo
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby D'Angelo » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:23 pm

kristinmarieUA wrote:
CactusPuppy wrote:
kristinmarieUA wrote:ONCE AGAIN
I was kidding, chill out.
http://people.howstuffworks.com/sarcasm.htm


Text on a screen... took it literally

Yeah nope, not going to be PC on here.
Get enough of that in my daily life.

How to fix
1) Locate stick in butt
2) Remove
3) Take a joke

This is the internet.

cactus' post was a joke

STLMizzou
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby STLMizzou » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:25 pm

D'Angelo wrote:cactus' post was a joke



I see what you did there, and I enjoyed it thoroughly

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HushYoDissents
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby HushYoDissents » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:44 pm

STLMizzou wrote:
D'Angelo wrote:cactus' post was a joke



I see what you did there, and I enjoyed it thoroughly


Face-palm

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ben4847
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Re: Thoughts on Extended Time for Students with Disabilities

Postby ben4847 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:54 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:In a career based on the billable hour, where inefficient work means partners are going to have to write off more of your time - clients will refuse to pay 1.5 hours when the task should have taken 1 hour; courts will refuse to approve similar fee applications - getting extra time doesn't make sense.

And I'm not going to hedge: there's nothing wrong about that. Someone who takes longer to do X task is less valuable to a firm. Firms should have a way of identifying people who would be less valuable to them; grades are treated as a proxy for value, and firms should be entitled to the information.

I suppose another way to deal with this would be for a firm to pay someone who takes longer to do X proportionately less, so that the RPL for that individual evens out. But I'm sure people would scream about discrimination there.




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