NOT Finishing Exam - Thoughts?

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thesealocust
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Re: NOT Finishing Exam - Thoughts?

Postby thesealocust » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:51 pm

Pato_09 wrote:Will a C (as a 2L) blow your chances for big firm permanent offer?


Of course it will. Everyone who gets a C 2L year has their offer revoked. If you get it in the fall you can't even spend the summer at the firm. There's a nationwide clearinghouse for grades to make sure it gets spotted as quickly as possible. A few firms will even fire you mid-summer if spring grades come out and one of them was a C.

The reason for this is that your grades are what define you as a person. They are like talismanic sources of your intelligence, drive, work ethic, and charisma. If they falter, you falter. Without a properly impressive transcript backing you up, no client will take you seriously. No judge will listen to your arguments.

You aren't anything but your grades. It would be preposterous for a firm to consider extending employment to somebody so worthless as a human being as to allow themselves to be marred with a C.
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

c3pO4
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Re: NOT Finishing Exam - Thoughts?

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:52 pm

Pato_09 wrote:Will a C (as a 2L) blow your chances for big firm permanent offer?


and we're back

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RVP11
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Re: NOT Finishing Exam - Thoughts?

Postby RVP11 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:18 pm

thesealocust wrote:The reason for this is that your grades are what define you as a person. They are like talismanic sources of your intelligence, drive, work ethic, and charisma. If they falter, you falter. Without a properly impressive transcript backing you up, no client will take you seriously. No judge will listen to your arguments.

You aren't anything but your grades. It would be preposterous for a firm to consider extending employment to somebody so worthless as a human being as to allow themselves to be marred with a C.


TYFT.

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Pato_09
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Re: NOT Finishing Exam - Thoughts?

Postby Pato_09 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:22 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Pato_09 wrote:Will a C (as a 2L) blow your chances for big firm permanent offer?


Of course it will. Everyone who gets a C 2L year has their offer revoked. If you get it in the fall you can't even spend the summer at the firm. There's a nationwide clearinghouse for grades to make sure it gets spotted as quickly as possible. A few firms will even fire you mid-summer if spring grades come out and one of them was a C.

The reason for this is that your grades are what define you as a person. They are like talismanic sources of your intelligence, drive, work ethic, and charisma. If they falter, you falter. Without a properly impressive transcript backing you up, no client will take you seriously. No judge will listen to your arguments.

You aren't anything but your grades. It would be preposterous for a firm to consider extending employment to somebody so worthless as a human being as to allow themselves to be marred with a C.


Lol. Touche

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deebs
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Re: NOT Finishing Exam - Thoughts?

Postby deebs » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:24 am

thesealocust wrote:
Pato_09 wrote:Will a C (as a 2L) blow your chances for big firm permanent offer?


Of course it will. Everyone who gets a C 2L year has their offer revoked. If you get it in the fall you can't even spend the summer at the firm. There's a nationwide clearinghouse for grades to make sure it gets spotted as quickly as possible. A few firms will even fire you mid-summer if spring grades come out and one of them was a C.

The reason for this is that your grades are what define you as a person. They are like talismanic sources of your intelligence, drive, work ethic, and charisma. If they falter, you falter. Without a properly impressive transcript backing you up, no client will take you seriously. No judge will listen to your arguments.

You aren't anything but your grades. It would be preposterous for a firm to consider extending employment to somebody so worthless as a human being as to allow themselves to be marred with a C.


QFFT, since firms use grades as a metric to distinguish students initially, it will always remain the main metric. I.E. You get top 5% your 1 L year. 2L fall, you get median, which drops you to top 15%. You crank out top class work over the summer. Doesn't matter, you get dinged. Firm's don't give a fuck about the quality of work you do, only the grades. My advice to you: burn out this year staying in the top 5% by studying all day every day. Doesn't matter that your brain is working over the summer. Shitty work product, no biggie if you're in that top range. Best work of any summer, but you got a C in fed tax when you're doing lit = no offered.

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smokyroom26
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Re: NOT Finishing Exam - Thoughts?

Postby smokyroom26 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:40 pm

deebs wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Pato_09 wrote:Will a C (as a 2L) blow your chances for big firm permanent offer?


Of course it will. Everyone who gets a C 2L year has their offer revoked. If you get it in the fall you can't even spend the summer at the firm. There's a nationwide clearinghouse for grades to make sure it gets spotted as quickly as possible. A few firms will even fire you mid-summer if spring grades come out and one of them was a C.

The reason for this is that your grades are what define you as a person. They are like talismanic sources of your intelligence, drive, work ethic, and charisma. If they falter, you falter. Without a properly impressive transcript backing you up, no client will take you seriously. No judge will listen to your arguments.

You aren't anything but your grades. It would be preposterous for a firm to consider extending employment to somebody so worthless as a human being as to allow themselves to be marred with a C.


QFFT, since firms use grades as a metric to distinguish students initially, it will always remain the main metric. I.E. You get top 5% your 1 L year. 2L fall, you get median, which drops you to top 15%. You crank out top class work over the summer. Doesn't matter, you get dinged. Firm's don't give a fuck about the quality of work you do, only the grades. My advice to you: burn out this year staying in the top 5% by studying all day every day. Doesn't matter that your brain is working over the summer. Shitty work product, no biggie if you're in that top range. Best work of any summer, but you got a C in fed tax when you're doing lit = no offered.


IMHO, it's also important to remember that if you are single, you'll probably never land a SO with that kind of black mark on your record. If you are currently involved, well, hopefully she won't ask to see this semester's transcript. I mean, if I ever found out my boyfriend made a C on a law school exam, I'd DTMFA faster than you can say "dry spell."

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Borhas
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Re: NOT Finishing Exam - Thoughts?

Postby Borhas » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:47 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:Poor time management will kill you. That should be the second thing you do after you sketch out your attack outline from memory on the back of the first page of the exam. Count up how much each section of exam is worth, and devote the appropriate amount of time relative to how many points each section is worth.

My first contracts exam, prof said in instructions that people typically don't finish, and he was right. That sneaky prof had a section of short answers worth varying points. The very last short answer (also last question on exam) was worth 8 points, while most other short answers were 3-4, and that question was easy. It was a REWARD for people who took time to review the test and plan out their answers, as jumping on that last question (and skipping lower value ones) paid off by earning more points in the alloted time. Multiple people just ran through the questions in order, and kicked themselves when they realized they should have cherry picked the questions based on points. That is what I did, and it worked out well.

Look, who knows how you did, but I'll tell you, someone probably planned ahead and addressed the entire essay first, maybe sacrificing a few points on the MC, but gaining more through planning. Its a points grab. You have to focus on gaining the most points. I never did the multiple choice first, because I know for me that I can run through MC faster than put down an essay, but I always set my timer for X amount of time per section, and once the time hit, move on. You could spend all exam writing the perfect essay, but miss points on the MC and get a C.

Law school exams are a game. They aren't just objective measures of knowledge, but also measures of who is most crafty.


if exam is MC and MC is worth 50% it'd still be a bad move to spend 50% of your time on MC. Spending more than 1-2 minutes on a MC question is usually a bad idea cause unlike an essay the more time you spend doesn't really mean the more points you get. If it's a situation where looking something up will make it easier that's different, but I've often found that over 2 min on a MC is just wasted effort.

I think it's usually best to finish MC swiftly and then spend rest on issue spotting

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RVP11
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Re: NOT Finishing Exam - Thoughts?

Postby RVP11 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:08 pm

smokyroom26 wrote:
deebs wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Pato_09 wrote:Will a C (as a 2L) blow your chances for big firm permanent offer?


Of course it will. Everyone who gets a C 2L year has their offer revoked. If you get it in the fall you can't even spend the summer at the firm. There's a nationwide clearinghouse for grades to make sure it gets spotted as quickly as possible. A few firms will even fire you mid-summer if spring grades come out and one of them was a C.

The reason for this is that your grades are what define you as a person. They are like talismanic sources of your intelligence, drive, work ethic, and charisma. If they falter, you falter. Without a properly impressive transcript backing you up, no client will take you seriously. No judge will listen to your arguments.

You aren't anything but your grades. It would be preposterous for a firm to consider extending employment to somebody so worthless as a human being as to allow themselves to be marred with a C.


QFFT, since firms use grades as a metric to distinguish students initially, it will always remain the main metric. I.E. You get top 5% your 1 L year. 2L fall, you get median, which drops you to top 15%. You crank out top class work over the summer. Doesn't matter, you get dinged. Firm's don't give a fuck about the quality of work you do, only the grades. My advice to you: burn out this year staying in the top 5% by studying all day every day. Doesn't matter that your brain is working over the summer. Shitty work product, no biggie if you're in that top range. Best work of any summer, but you got a C in fed tax when you're doing lit = no offered.


IMHO, it's also important to remember that if you are single, you'll probably never land a SO with that kind of black mark on your record. If you are currently involved, well, hopefully she won't ask to see this semester's transcript. I mean, if I ever found out my boyfriend made a C on a law school exam, I'd DTMFA faster than you can say "dry spell."


It was funny only when thesealocust did it.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: NOT Finishing Exam - Thoughts?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:41 pm

Borhas wrote:
NotMyRealName09 wrote:Poor time management will kill you. That should be the second thing you do after you sketch out your attack outline from memory on the back of the first page of the exam. Count up how much each section of exam is worth, and devote the appropriate amount of time relative to how many points each section is worth.

My first contracts exam, prof said in instructions that people typically don't finish, and he was right. That sneaky prof had a section of short answers worth varying points. The very last short answer (also last question on exam) was worth 8 points, while most other short answers were 3-4, and that question was easy. It was a REWARD for people who took time to review the test and plan out their answers, as jumping on that last question (and skipping lower value ones) paid off by earning more points in the alloted time. Multiple people just ran through the questions in order, and kicked themselves when they realized they should have cherry picked the questions based on points. That is what I did, and it worked out well.

Look, who knows how you did, but I'll tell you, someone probably planned ahead and addressed the entire essay first, maybe sacrificing a few points on the MC, but gaining more through planning. Its a points grab. You have to focus on gaining the most points. I never did the multiple choice first, because I know for me that I can run through MC faster than put down an essay, but I always set my timer for X amount of time per section, and once the time hit, move on. You could spend all exam writing the perfect essay, but miss points on the MC and get a C.

Law school exams are a game. They aren't just objective measures of knowledge, but also measures of who is most crafty.


if exam is MC and MC is worth 50% it'd still be a bad move to spend 50% of your time on MC. Spending more than 1-2 minutes on a MC question is usually a bad idea cause unlike an essay the more time you spend doesn't really mean the more points you get. If it's a situation where looking something up will make it easier that's different, but I've often found that over 2 min on a MC is just wasted effort.

I think it's usually best to finish MC swiftly and then spend rest on issue spotting


Well, to amend what I said, I still think if MC is 50% and Essay is 50% of points, start with essay, stop at half-way mark to hit the MCs, then with the time left go back to the essay. My over-arching point is to have a gameplan and stick to it. If you are not strict about your time management, you may end up not giving yourself enough time to finish each section. Also, some people are not as fast at MC as I might have been, so the time management rule applies whether you are fast at MC or not. I agree with you about MC time limits, but as you note not to spend more than 2 minutes on a question, that is a decent rule of thumb, but depending on the exam, you might only have 1 minute per question, or 1.5, thus the time management should continue while you plow through the MC. If you aren't sure, mark C and move on, because you are wasting time on a question you don't know when you could be racking up points on questions you do know.

Whatever you decide to do, have a plan and execute it. No one gets 100% on a law school exam. The key is to know when to stop pondering a difficult question and move on to gathering points on easier questions.

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smokyroom26
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Re: NOT Finishing Exam - Thoughts?

Postby smokyroom26 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:37 pm

RVP11 wrote:It was funny only when thesealocust did it.


Buzzkill.




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