My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

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concerned_one
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My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby concerned_one » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:13 pm

I'm in a weird position. My boyfriend is a 1L and, unbeknownst to me until last night, he failed his Legal Writing course and has basically been advised to take a leave of absence next semester and repeat the first year. His other option is to proceed with the rest of his finals and enroll for spring, but he'll have to spend a whole year taking Legal Writing before he can take advanced courses.

It's come as a complete shock to me since he's always studying and he had an outstanding GPA in undergrad (which I know is a completely different ball park). But he said at some point during the semester he had spent so much time obsessing over little things that work began piling up and he had fallen behind. I think his legal memos were to blame. He spent so much time focusing on them and stopped paying attention to his reading assignments.

I am not sure what to tell him. Part of me thinks he's come this far and should take the rest of his finals anyway. The other part sees how exhausted he is. I know he's afraid of what people will say if he has to start over. I've tried to tell him it doesn't matter what they think, that me and his family will support him whatever he decides, he's not a failure, and so on.

I know you're probably all busy studying for finals too - but has anyone experienced this before? Any ideas on what he should do or encouraging things I can tell him? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Good luck on your finals!

Thanks,
Concerned Girlfriend

target
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby target » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:17 pm

First, you are an amazing girlfriend.

Second, what happen if he fails one of his final? Would he still be allowed to re-enroll next year? If so, I say take the finals, so he can develop some test taking skills.

Can he take first semester LAWR next semester and the 2nd semester LAWR in summer?

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bk1
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby bk1 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:18 pm

So you're saying he spent a lot of time focusing on writing assignments, falling behind in his doctrinal classes, and yet he still failed legal writing?

td6624
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby td6624 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:24 pm

maybe he should drop out

luthersloan
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby luthersloan » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:25 pm

td6624 wrote:maybe he should drop out


With dispatch.

concerned_one
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby concerned_one » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:28 pm

target wrote:First, you are an amazing girlfriend.

Second, what happen if he fails one of his final? Would he still be allowed to re-enroll next year? If so, I say take the finals, so he can develop some test taking skills.

Can he take first semester LAWR next semester and the 2nd semester LAWR in summer?



Awww thanks! I'm trying my best here..

I wish I knew for certain, but he doesn't really want to talk about it right now. It sounds like if he takes the finals and doesn't pass, he can take a mulligan for next year and start over. And if he passes, spring semester will go as planned. The only difference will be that next year he repeats LRW and takes some random required classes instead of moot court and the ones he really wants to do. As far as I know, LRW is on a year-round schedule from September to May. No summer classes or anything like that. :-/

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acrossthelake
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:30 pm

Does he want to go into biglaw? Because OCI will be difficult with a fail for LRW.

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Teoeo
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby Teoeo » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:31 pm

He needs to re-enroll. Just have him relax and spend the rest of the year figuring out what went wrong. He can also get super far ahead by studying the 1L courses all year + first semester of next year and hopefully get top grades.

concerned_one
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby concerned_one » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:31 pm

bk1 wrote:So you're saying he spent a lot of time focusing on writing assignments, falling behind in his doctrinal classes, and yet he still failed legal writing?



I guess? He failed legal writing because he was unable to complete the memo.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:33 pm

Why isn't the following an option: taking all his finals, enrolling for spring classes (including the second half of LRW), and retaking the first half of LRW in the summer. (And, thus, he would be all caught up by the time 2L comes around.)

If they won't allow him to take the second half LRW course w/o passing the first half (and the first half isn't offered in the spring, which makes sense) then it might be best for him to stop now, unless he feels especially prepared for finals. There's no point in taking finals right now in his state of mind if he isn't confident he could do well. And retaking all his core classes might actually be a major benefit in terms of how he may do come finals time next year. Does the fail stick on his resume or will it be replaced? If the latter, the silver lining of this is he may be able to have an amazing gpa because of this.

Another big question is where does he go to school and how much is it costing him. If he's paying sticker at a school where his job prospects aren't that great then paying another 40k for a tiny shot at biglaw is not worth it.

ETA: Ah, summer class issue answered. He should take the exams if he thinks he can do well and he should retake if he thinks he's going to do poorly (assuming the situation is such that it's a reasonable financial decision to do it).

concerned_one
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby concerned_one » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:34 pm

acrossthelake wrote:Does he want to go into biglaw? Because OCI will be difficult with a fail for LRW.


No, he wants to do criminal law.

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jim
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby jim » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:36 pm

He should consider that the rest of his life will look a whole lot like his Legal Writing class, and make sure law is where he really wants to be.

c3pO4
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby c3pO4 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:36 pm

it REALLY depends what the career goals are. If it's biglaw, the game is over. Time to drop out and pursue another career. If it's federal government, probably same. If it's local gov, maybe theres a chance, although failing LRW should be considered something that speaks to potential to succeed in law school, even on the off chance that it was a correctable aberation. I'd cut losses and get my life going, rather than trying to go on. An F is game over for almost any job I can think of, with so many people with decent grades graduating unemployed.

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Ludo!
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby Ludo! » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:38 pm

Honestly, maybe law school is not for him. He couldn't even finish the memo to get it in on time? 1l LRW memo's aren't that hard. This might be a blessing in disguise.

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bk1
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby bk1 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:39 pm

To be honest, he just doesn't seem like he can handle the workload right now and I don't see any reason why that would change a month from now when he starts his second semester.

By what you said, he couldn't balance legal writing with doctrinal courses so he spent more on legal writing. Even after he did that he still failed legal writing. Not to mention that law schools rarely give out failing grades so he must have done extremely poorly to merit an F. You also note that he is studying a lot. Which means either you are wrong or that he really is and yet still can't keep up. This means to me that he just isn't prepared to work efficiently in law school at the current time.

I think the best option for him would be to drop out since he doesn't seem like he can handle law school right now for whatever reason. I would recommend that he get some work experience and then see if later on down the line he still wants to go to law school and thinks he's up for the challenge. If he is then he should reapply later. As it stands now I just don't see any benefit to him staying in a situation where he is clearly already floundering.

TempleU555555
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby TempleU555555 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:44 pm

concerned_one wrote:I'm in a weird position. My boyfriend is a 1L and, unbeknownst to me until last night, he failed his Legal Writing course and has basically been advised to take a leave of absence next semester and repeat the first year. His other option is to proceed with the rest of his finals and enroll for spring, but he'll have to spend a whole year taking Legal Writing before he can take advanced courses.

It's come as a complete shock to me since he's always studying and he had an outstanding GPA in undergrad (which I know is a completely different ball park). But he said at some point during the semester he had spent so much time obsessing over little things that work began piling up and he had fallen behind. I think his legal memos were to blame. He spent so much time focusing on them and stopped paying attention to his reading assignments.

I am not sure what to tell him. Part of me thinks he's come this far and should take the rest of his finals anyway. The other part sees how exhausted he is. I know he's afraid of what people will say if he has to start over. I've tried to tell him it doesn't matter what they think, that me and his family will support him whatever he decides, he's not a failure, and so on.

I know you're probably all busy studying for finals too - but has anyone experienced this before? Any ideas on what he should do or encouraging things I can tell him? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Good luck on your finals!

Thanks,
Concerned Girlfriend



Where does he go to school?

03121202698008
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:48 pm

bk1 wrote:To be honest, he just doesn't seem like he can handle the workload right now and I don't see any reason why that would change a month from now when he starts his second semester.

By what you said, he couldn't balance legal writing with doctrinal courses so he spent more on legal writing. Even after he did that he still failed legal writing. Not to mention that law schools rarely give out failing grades so he must have done extremely poorly to merit an F. You also note that he is studying a lot. Which means either you are wrong or that he really is and yet still can't keep up. This means to me that he just isn't prepared to work efficiently in law school at the current time.

I think the best option for him would be to drop out since he doesn't seem like he can handle law school right now for whatever reason. I would recommend that he get some work experience and then see if later on down the line he still wants to go to law school and thinks he's up for the challenge. If he is then he should reapply later. As it stands now I just don't see any benefit to him staying in a situation where he is clearly already floundering.


This. I'm way busier 2L than 1L and LRW was cake compared to the little real work I did over the summer. Also, do you have any idea how busy criminal lawyers are? Particularly prosecutors... He needs to rethink whether he's ready, his approach, etc.

concerned_one
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby concerned_one » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:01 pm

blowhard wrote:
bk1 wrote:To be honest, he just doesn't seem like he can handle the workload right now and I don't see any reason why that would change a month from now when he starts his second semester.

By what you said, he couldn't balance legal writing with doctrinal courses so he spent more on legal writing. Even after he did that he still failed legal writing. Not to mention that law schools rarely give out failing grades so he must have done extremely poorly to merit an F. You also note that he is studying a lot. Which means either you are wrong or that he really is and yet still can't keep up. This means to me that he just isn't prepared to work efficiently in law school at the current time.

I think the best option for him would be to drop out since he doesn't seem like he can handle law school right now for whatever reason. I would recommend that he get some work experience and then see if later on down the line he still wants to go to law school and thinks he's up for the challenge. If he is then he should reapply later. As it stands now I just don't see any benefit to him staying in a situation where he is clearly already floundering.


This. I'm way busier 2L than 1L and LRW was cake compared to the little real work I did over the summer. Also, do you have any idea how busy criminal lawyers are? Particularly prosecutors... He needs to rethink whether he's ready, his approach, etc.


I think it goes deeper than him not being able to handle the workload. He says he's been depressed. He had a meeting with his school yesterday, and they agreed to remove his failing grade for LRW off his transcript IF he does not take the finals this semester and goes on leave (so I guess I was mistaken in my earlier post). If he decides to take them then he's stuck with whatever grades he gets. I've encouraged him to study to try to take them but I'm beginning to see from your responses that taking a leave might be the best decision for his current state of mind. Right now he needs to relax, stop beating himself up, and take a step back to evaluate what went wrong this semester and prepare himself for next year. He knows in his heart he wants to be a prosecutor. We had a long discussion about it last night and he assured me that IS what he wants to do. I just think he didn't pace himself and became depressed as a result.

blong4133
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby blong4133 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:02 pm

In my mind, this is the hardest part of adjusting to law school. I'm a 2L and I'm going through a similar problem right now. I took appellate advocacy (which is an elective at my school, not sure about others) but we had to write two 30 page briefs, along with oral arguments, which happened to be worth just as much as a brief (30% of final grade). I was freaking over that class and spent so much time on it, that I started neglecting my readings and whatnot, but I still was going to class and taking good notes and learning the material from the lectures more than the readings.

I should get a B in the Ap. Ad. class, but I'm worrying about my performance on the finals since I didn't spend nearly the amount of time on my other classes. The only thing I can suggest is that if he really feels that he can pass these finals, then he should tough it out. If there's any chance that he thinks he's not going to pass them, I'd opt to try it again next year. I know a couple of people who did that. Came in with my class and left, and came back this year as a 1L, and they're doing fine.

The way I look at it, is if he's made a big mistake (such as failing a class) and the school will let him have a "do-over" so to speak, I personally would take that because he could start clean, and he would have learned a valuable lesson through his experiences this semester.

On the other hand, there's always the risk that he's just not cut out for law school. I also know a buddy of mine who failed legal writing first semester, and was barely able to keep his GPA high enough to stay in school after the first round of finals. The next semester, he ended up getting kicked out. Not because he wasn't a smart guy, because he was very smart, but he just wasn't cut out for it. Legal Writing, in my opinion, was the easiest class that I've taken so far. I was much more confident/comfortable with my grade in that class than I was in anything else (I automatically assume I fail all of my finals, which may actually come true this semester). So that's always a possibility. Is it worth the time/stress/money that he's going to be investing in this? There's just a lot to think about with stuff like this. But whatever happens, it will happen for a reason. May seem rough now, but it will all work out and things will be fine in the end. For me, that is how I keep my sanity. Just remember that it is what it is, and if you can't cut it, there's no sense in forcing something. If he thinks he can do it, then go for it but just be aware of what he's getting himself into (with an extra semester's worth of law school loans, the added pressure of knowing that this is your last chance to do it, etc.)

But to echo an above poster, you're an awesome girlfriend for being so concerned about him. Just give him his space. It's tough to feel like you've missed out on something you've worked so hard for.

Best of luck to the both of you!
Last edited by blong4133 on Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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acrossthelake
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:02 pm

bk1 wrote:To be honest, he just doesn't seem like he can handle the workload right now and I don't see any reason why that would change a month from now when he starts his second semester.

By what you said, he couldn't balance legal writing with doctrinal courses so he spent more on legal writing. Even after he did that he still failed legal writing. Not to mention that law schools rarely give out failing grades so he must have done extremely poorly to merit an F. You also note that he is studying a lot. Which means either you are wrong or that he really is and yet still can't keep up. This means to me that he just isn't prepared to work efficiently in law school at the current time.

I think the best option for him would be to drop out since he doesn't seem like he can handle law school right now for whatever reason. I would recommend that he get some work experience and then see if later on down the line he still wants to go to law school and thinks he's up for the challenge. If he is then he should reapply later. As it stands now I just don't see any benefit to him staying in a situation where he is clearly already floundering.


Gonna +1 this. BK often provides pretty sound advice, too.

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Extension_Cord
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby Extension_Cord » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:03 pm

I think he should consider dropping out. I don't mean this in a condescending way but it will only get more difficult from 1L first semester. The next year and a half gets more and more challenging.

03121202698008
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:34 pm

concerned_one wrote:
blowhard wrote:
bk1 wrote:To be honest, he just doesn't seem like he can handle the workload right now and I don't see any reason why that would change a month from now when he starts his second semester.

By what you said, he couldn't balance legal writing with doctrinal courses so he spent more on legal writing. Even after he did that he still failed legal writing. Not to mention that law schools rarely give out failing grades so he must have done extremely poorly to merit an F. You also note that he is studying a lot. Which means either you are wrong or that he really is and yet still can't keep up. This means to me that he just isn't prepared to work efficiently in law school at the current time.

I think the best option for him would be to drop out since he doesn't seem like he can handle law school right now for whatever reason. I would recommend that he get some work experience and then see if later on down the line he still wants to go to law school and thinks he's up for the challenge. If he is then he should reapply later. As it stands now I just don't see any benefit to him staying in a situation where he is clearly already floundering.


This. I'm way busier 2L than 1L and LRW was cake compared to the little real work I did over the summer. Also, do you have any idea how busy criminal lawyers are? Particularly prosecutors... He needs to rethink whether he's ready, his approach, etc.


I think it goes deeper than him not being able to handle the workload. He says he's been depressed. He had a meeting with his school yesterday, and they agreed to remove his failing grade for LRW off his transcript IF he does not take the finals this semester and goes on leave (so I guess I was mistaken in my earlier post). If he decides to take them then he's stuck with whatever grades he gets. I've encouraged him to study to try to take them but I'm beginning to see from your responses that taking a leave might be the best decision for his current state of mind. Right now he needs to relax, stop beating himself up, and take a step back to evaluate what went wrong this semester and prepare himself for next year. He knows in his heart he wants to be a prosecutor. We had a long discussion about it last night and he assured me that IS what he wants to do. I just think he didn't pace himself and became depressed as a result.


If they are taking LRW off, that needs to be at least what he does. Writing is a huge part of being a lawyer and an F in LRW will haunt him. Finding a job would be a bitch.

random5483
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby random5483 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:56 pm

blowhard wrote:
concerned_one wrote:
blowhard wrote:
bk1 wrote:To be honest, he just doesn't seem like he can handle the workload right now and I don't see any reason why that would change a month from now when he starts his second semester.

By what you said, he couldn't balance legal writing with doctrinal courses so he spent more on legal writing. Even after he did that he still failed legal writing. Not to mention that law schools rarely give out failing grades so he must have done extremely poorly to merit an F. You also note that he is studying a lot. Which means either you are wrong or that he really is and yet still can't keep up. This means to me that he just isn't prepared to work efficiently in law school at the current time.

I think the best option for him would be to drop out since he doesn't seem like he can handle law school right now for whatever reason. I would recommend that he get some work experience and then see if later on down the line he still wants to go to law school and thinks he's up for the challenge. If he is then he should reapply later. As it stands now I just don't see any benefit to him staying in a situation where he is clearly already floundering.


This. I'm way busier 2L than 1L and LRW was cake compared to the little real work I did over the summer. Also, do you have any idea how busy criminal lawyers are? Particularly prosecutors... He needs to rethink whether he's ready, his approach, etc.


I think it goes deeper than him not being able to handle the workload. He says he's been depressed. He had a meeting with his school yesterday, and they agreed to remove his failing grade for LRW off his transcript IF he does not take the finals this semester and goes on leave (so I guess I was mistaken in my earlier post). If he decides to take them then he's stuck with whatever grades he gets. I've encouraged him to study to try to take them but I'm beginning to see from your responses that taking a leave might be the best decision for his current state of mind. Right now he needs to relax, stop beating himself up, and take a step back to evaluate what went wrong this semester and prepare himself for next year. He knows in his heart he wants to be a prosecutor. We had a long discussion about it last night and he assured me that IS what he wants to do. I just think he didn't pace himself and became depressed as a result.


If they are taking LRW off, that needs to be at least what he does. Writing is a huge part of being a lawyer and an F in LRW will haunt him. Finding a job would be a bitch.




I hate saying this, but he should probably drop out. Re-enrolling next year is the next best option. Continuing this year and taking just LRW next year would look worse because he would end up taking 4 years to graduate. That plus a failed class is unlikely to look good.

The legal market is poor. Even those who do decently well in good schools have difficulty acquiring jobs. If your boyfriend failed due to non-law related stresses (death of close family, etc), re-enrolling next year might make sense. If law school itself was the reason he failed, then he should not re-enroll. Law school is not for everyone.

target
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby target » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:01 pm

concerned_one wrote:
I think it goes deeper than him not being able to handle the workload. He says he's been depressed. He had a meeting with his school yesterday, and they agreed to remove his failing grade for LRW off his transcript IF he does not take the finals this semester and goes on leave (so I guess I was mistaken in my earlier post). If he decides to take them then he's stuck with whatever grades he gets. I've encouraged him to study to try to take them but I'm beginning to see from your responses that taking a leave might be the best decision for his current state of mind. Right now he needs to relax, stop beating himself up, and take a step back to evaluate what went wrong this semester and prepare himself for next year. He knows in his heart he wants to be a prosecutor. We had a long discussion about it last night and he assured me that IS what he wants to do. I just think he didn't pace himself and became depressed as a result.


Okay, yeah, he should not take the finals. If he really wants to be a lawyer, then take a leave of absence. That would give him sometimes to ponder and decide if he should come back next year or drop law school altogether.

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Borhas
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Re: My boyfriend is burnt out. Help.

Postby Borhas » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:01 pm

concerned_one wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:Does he want to go into biglaw? Because OCI will be difficult with a fail for LRW.


No, he wants to do criminal law.


On the plus side you basically don't even need to know how to write for that

+1 to dropping out, fuck it, being a lawyer is not that great anyway
Last edited by Borhas on Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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