Any other 1L's not Outlining?

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johansantana21
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Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby johansantana21 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:51 pm

Come give me support while I end up below median.

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Extension_Cord
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby Extension_Cord » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:58 pm

johansantana21 wrote:Come give me support while I end up below median.


I outlines for one class but found really good outlines for another class.

FiliusNullius
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby FiliusNullius » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:10 pm

They have a name for the 1L's who outlined ........ it's called 2L.

The ones that don't have a name too .......... "sandwich artist". :roll:

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johansantana21
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby johansantana21 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:11 pm

FiliusNullius wrote:I know that after 1L ABA students can transfer to online law schools. Some are even open book self proctored self paced, one class at a time, correspondence.

Kind of thinking about doing it.

Anyone else have that thought pop in their head?


No flames here please.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:12 pm

Wish I wouldn't have spent so much time on it...would have been much better off taking practice tests and working on exam skills...

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alicrimson
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby alicrimson » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:16 pm

FiliusNullius wrote:They have a name for the 1L's who outlined ........ it's called 2L.

The ones that don't have a name too .......... "sandwich artist". :roll:



I don't know...I think if you put in the time and do other things, you can escape outlining. I have put equal time into both torts and my other classes. I have outlined for all but torts and feel the same way in each. I didn't outline for torts because its closed book. Instead I reread notes, an old outline, e & es, barbri lectures (love these), cali lessons, made snazzy element flashcards for memorization purposes, and read gilberts as I read my casebook for the first time. This started in October. I think its possible to comprehend without outlining, its just most who don't outline do so because they're too lazy and don't prep much otherwise because of similar laziness. I know a lot of 2Ls who have done this. Some are on law review. Granted, most probably outlined themselves but it is possible to not outline and do well. People always say an outline is not an end in itself. Its the means by which people review and learn the material. Really, you can do this without writing bullets on a paper. The key is to just do it....or atleast this is what my brain tells me and what I've gathered from 2L friends.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:16 pm

Ali, look at his post history lol...

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alicrimson
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby alicrimson » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:18 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:Ali, look at his post history lol...


Valid. haha. I suppose this was more for OP's benefit? And my own.

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Judge Philip Banks
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby Judge Philip Banks » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:33 am

johansantana21 wrote:Come give me support while I end up below median.

As long as you're doing practice tests and learning the material cold in some other way, you will be fine. Outlines are by no means necessary or sufficient to do well. (Full disclosure: I've done outlines for all my classes.)

acrossthelake
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby acrossthelake » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:46 am

FiliusNullius wrote:They have a name for the 1L's who outlined ........ it's called 2L.

The ones that don't have a name too .......... "sandwich artist". :roll:


There's also another name I know for someone who didn't outline. "Professor."

Sandro
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby Sandro » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:58 am

I've found other outlines pretty helpful time wise - yes, I know going through your notes and making your own outline is what helps, but going through your notes to supplement a quality outline is pretty much the same thing imo. Checking to make sure everything's there + adding stuff they missed.

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beachbum
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby beachbum » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:34 am

I outlined for two classes and have 2L/3L outlines for my third class. But my third class is also a 24-hour take-home with a fairly limited word count, so I have a little more leeway if I need to look something up.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:39 am

FeelTheHeat wrote:Wish I wouldn't have spent so much time on it...would have been much better off taking practice tests and working on exam skills...


I feel you brother. Outlining is one of the biggest traps that a lot of 1L's fall in. By the time I realized how unhelpful it was it was almost too late. Spending time learning the subject and taking practice exams is FAR more important. Especially at this point in the semester.

Most overrated things in law school

1) Outlining
2) Getting to Maybe
3) Case reading

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:44 am

BruceWayne wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:Wish I wouldn't have spent so much time on it...would have been much better off taking practice tests and working on exam skills...


I feel you brother. Outlining is one of the biggest traps that a lot of 1L's fall in. By the time I realized how unhelpful it was it was almost too late. Spending time learning the subject and taking practice exams is FAR more important. Especially at this point in the semester.

Most overrated things in law school

1) Outlining
2) Getting to Maybe
3) Case reading


This is all so true...I've completely narrowed my focus on taking exams (hope leews works) and knowing the BLL cold...thank god only two of my exams are essays...

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alicrimson
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby alicrimson » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:07 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:Wish I wouldn't have spent so much time on it...would have been much better off taking practice tests and working on exam skills...


I feel you brother. Outlining is one of the biggest traps that a lot of 1L's fall in. By the time I realized how unhelpful it was it was almost too late. Spending time learning the subject and taking practice exams is FAR more important. Especially at this point in the semester.

Most overrated things in law school

1) Outlining
2) Getting to Maybe
3) Case reading


This is all so true...I've completely narrowed my focus on taking exams (hope leews works) and knowing the BLL cold...thank god only two of my exams are essays...


I've done the LEEWs throughout the semester and I liked it. I think it was really good for working on issue spotting and getting comfortable with formatting exam responses. Check your teacher's model answers though and ask their preferences because not all teachers like that format. For example, my torts prof likes the conclusion sentence first for each issue and then element analysis and arguments. The analysis always seems brief though because he likes a short word limit and penalizes anyone who goes over.

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sundance95
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby sundance95 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:23 pm

This might be unfair because I haven't read or done LEEWs, but after talking to some people who have, it seems like it either makes their exam approach far more complex and confused than necessary, or else learns some trademarked lingo that describes fairly fundamental exam-writing concepts. For those who have done it, what was the takeaway that you find valuable?

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alicrimson
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby alicrimson » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:33 pm

sundance95 wrote:This might be unfair because I haven't read or done LEEWs, but after talking to some people who have, it seems like it either makes their exam approach far more complex and confused than necessary, or else learns some trademarked lingo that describes fairly fundamental exam-writing concepts. For those who have done it, what was the takeaway that you find valuable?


Truly, I think it was helpful at the time I did it because it made me sit down and think about structure and how law school exams work. It also pointed out things to look for that helped in my initial learning of the material. Some people don't need this sort of a system and do this naturally so they would find this of very little value. I found doing the exercises biweekly to be very helpful. I'm not sure if I'd do it this late in the game...atleast not fully. I might read the setup and some of the examples but I wouldn't go cover to cover.

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ph14
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby ph14 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:38 pm

sundance95 wrote:This might be unfair because I haven't read or done LEEWs, but after talking to some people who have, it seems like it either makes their exam approach far more complex and confused than necessary, or else learns some trademarked lingo that describes fairly fundamental exam-writing concepts. For those who have done it, what was the takeaway that you find valuable?


Basically what I took away from it was read the question over, organize/spot claims by conflict pairs, always think about what additional actions you could bring, use subheadings, and start with a strong rule statement before analyzing. I guess the most valuable takeaway was organizing by conflict pairs, but this obviously works much better in some classes (torts) than others (civ pro).

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dailygrind
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby dailygrind » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:47 pm

BruceWayne wrote:Outlining is one of the biggest traps that a lot of 1L's fall in . . . Spending time learning the subject . . . is FAR more important.


Maybe you did it wrong, dood. I don't often outline from scratch, but I find the process of at least modifying old outlines to greatly aid in my understanding of the doctrine.

071816
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby 071816 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:53 pm

dailygrind wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:Outlining is one of the biggest traps that a lot of 1L's fall in . . . Spending time learning the subject . . . is FAR more important.


Maybe you did it wrong, dood. I don't often outline from scratch, but I find the process of at least modifying old outlines to greatly aid in my understanding of the doctrine.


This is exactly how I feel about it so far. I don't understand why some people think that outlining and studying/learning are mutually exclusive. If one budgets their time wisely, I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to outline and take plenty of practice exams for each class before finals.

jarofsoup
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby jarofsoup » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:03 pm

I am outlining reorganizing outlines that I have made during the year. I am finding it to be helpful to review. The main reason why I outlines is to get all the crap into one source....

Having an open book/open outline exams is also a very big incentive to outline and make them good.

071816
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby 071816 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:25 pm

jarofsoup wrote:I am outlining reorganizing outlines that I have made during the year. I am finding it to be helpful to review. The main reason why I outlines is to get all the crap into one source....

Having an open book/open outline exams is also a very big incentive to outline and make them good.


I don't know about that. Outlining should be used more to synthesize and learn the relevant material. For time purposes, it probably isn't very wise to be looking through your outline a bunch during an exam, but this probably depends on what type of exam it is, etc.

zomginternets
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby zomginternets » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:32 pm

Outlining helps me significantly in organizing all of the rules in my head, and seeing the "big picture" of the course. I do lots of practice exams thereafter. Memorizing the outline is the last thing I do, and even then I really don't spend more than a week at most doing that.

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johansantana21
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby johansantana21 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:54 pm

chimp wrote:
dailygrind wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:Outlining is one of the biggest traps that a lot of 1L's fall in . . . Spending time learning the subject . . . is FAR more important.


Maybe you did it wrong, dood. I don't often outline from scratch, but I find the process of at least modifying old outlines to greatly aid in my understanding of the doctrine.


This is exactly how I feel about it so far. I don't understand why some people think that outlining and studying/learning are mutually exclusive. If one budgets their time wisely, I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to outline and take plenty of practice exams for each class before finals.


duh

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YYZ
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Re: Any other 1L's not Outlining?

Postby YYZ » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:26 pm

Most people seem to be outlining in my class, and the general consensus from 2Ls is that outlining is a good idea. But, I have heard of people who just "tab" their notes in lieu of outlining and do just fine.

One way to test your class notes (and thus avoid outlining) is to do some practice tests using your class notes. If you can find everything quickly in your notes while taking the practice test, I guess you have a good case not to outline.

However, in my case, there is no way my class notes would have been useful for a Final without preparing an outline. My profs don't always present the material in a traditional, easy to follow outline format. I tried a practice problem just using my class notes, and it took way too long to find the info I need to answer the question. I would have never completed the question in the suggested, one hour time limit.




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