How detailed are you making your outlines?

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Gettingstarted1928
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How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:53 pm

I'm making my outline for Torts right now, and there is just sooooo much to remember. Is it necessary to remember all the little details? On exams do professors expect you to know nuances (ex. if a specific activity or group of people is or is not covered), or are we good to go as long as we get the big picture?
Last edited by Gettingstarted1928 on Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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biglaw$
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby biglaw$ » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:57 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:I'm making my outline for Torts right now, and there is just sooooo much to remember. Is it necessary to remember all the little details? I mean, do professors generally throw in little nuances (ex. if a specific activity or group of people is or is not covered), or are we good to go as long as we get the big picture?


Rules, exceptions, circuit splits, policy = FTW

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Extension_Cord
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby Extension_Cord » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:57 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:I'm making my outline for Torts right now, and there is just sooooo much to remember. Is it necessary to remember all the little details? I mean, do professors generally throw in little nuances (ex. if a specific activity or group of people is or is not covered), or are we good to go as long as we get the big picture?


What kind of exam is it?

Depends on each particular teacher.

My Con Law Teacher wants us to know everything, and my outline is 50 pages (kind of crazy for con law). My torts professor just wants us to know the basics but spot as many issues as possible with less application.

My contract professor is a written exam and my outline is 35 pages.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:01 pm

Extension_Cord wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:I'm making my outline for Torts right now, and there is just sooooo much to remember. Is it necessary to remember all the little details? I mean, do professors generally throw in little nuances (ex. if a specific activity or group of people is or is not covered), or are we good to go as long as we get the big picture?


What kind of exam is it?

Depends on each particular teacher.

My Con Law Teacher wants us to know everything, and my outline is 50 pages (kind of crazy for con law). My torts professor just wants us to know the basics but spot as many issues as possible with less application.

My contract professor is a written exam and my outline is 35 pages.



I wish I knew. Sometimes in class (or after reading a case), I'll learn, for example, that a specific action does not qualify as a legitimate intervening cause in showing proximate causation.

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ph14
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby ph14 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:05 pm

Take some practice exams and look at model answers.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:07 pm

ph14 wrote:Take some practice exams and look at model answers.



Yeah, I guess I'm going to have to do that. I really wanted to complete my outline first. I guess I need to stop making my preparation so rigid.

shock259
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby shock259 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:53 pm

Second the practice exams. You'll probably get a sense of what you can cut from taking a few. Most of mine are between 15-20 pages. I included extremely brief case descriptions on there. Haven't used them yet when taking a practice test, so I'll probably cut them.

Overall, once you really know the material, it's sorta surprising how little you actually need your outline. Generally, I think the shorter the better.

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ph14
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby ph14 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:03 pm

shock259 wrote:Second the practice exams. You'll probably get a sense of what you can cut from taking a few. Most of mine are between 15-20 pages. I included extremely brief case descriptions on there. Haven't used them yet when taking a practice test, so I'll probably cut them.

Overall, once you really know the material, it's sorta surprising how little you actually need your outline. Generally, I think the shorter the better.


Yeah, at least for my in-class exams, i'm working on making really condensed outlines of about 3-5 pages. Not quite sure how to handle my take home ones though. All my original outlines are kinda crappy though since I made them as I went. Don't think I have time to go through and completely fix the long ones.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:11 pm

Are you all including cases in your outline?

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ph14
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby ph14 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:14 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:Are you all including cases in your outline?


Yes -- all my professors seem to want cases to lessor or greater degrees.

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ilovesf
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby ilovesf » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:01 am

I can't bring my outlines into any of my tests, so brevity isn't as much of an issue.
Torts: 18 pages
Property: 28 pages
Civ Pro: 23 pages

Property is much longer because at the end of the semester we started reading 8 cases a night, so there are really a ton of cases to add.

Eco
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby Eco » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:06 am

Everybody is different. For the actual exam, if you're allowed to take it into the exam, you just need a 10-20 page outline with the basic rules. If you're doing a negligence question, just know the elements of negligence and apply them to the facts, add some policy shit, and you got the A.

Some people (me included) like to make a huge outline filled with every rule and every case. Then, when that process is done, we make the 10-20 page outline by summarizing our big one.

I like doing that because it forces me to go over the material all over again. Which is the main point of outlining.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:11 am

ilovesf wrote:I can't bring my outlines into any of my tests, so brevity isn't as much of an issue.
Torts: 18 pages
Property: 28 pages
Civ Pro: 23 pages

Property is much longer because at the end of the semester we started reading 8 cases a night, so there are really a ton of cases to add.


I actually wish we couldn't bring them in mine

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ph14
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby ph14 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:12 am

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:
ilovesf wrote:I can't bring my outlines into any of my tests, so brevity isn't as much of an issue.
Torts: 18 pages
Property: 28 pages
Civ Pro: 23 pages

Property is much longer because at the end of the semester we started reading 8 cases a night, so there are really a ton of cases to add.


I actually wish we couldn't bring them in mine


Haha, I kind of feel the same way. I'm sure that's a grass is greener thing though.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:13 am

Eco wrote:Everybody is different. For the actual exam, if you're allowed to take it into the exam, you just need a 10-20 page outline with the basic rules. If you're doing a negligence question, just know the elements of negligence and apply them to the facts, add some policy shit, and you got the A.

Some people (me included) like to make a huge outline filled with every rule and every case. Then, when that process is done, we make the 10-20 page outline by summarizing our big one.

I like doing that because it forces me to go over the material all over again. Which is the main point of outlining.


Do you add policy even when the question is an issue spotter?

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ilovesf
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby ilovesf » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:13 am

ph14 wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:
ilovesf wrote:I can't bring my outlines into any of my tests, so brevity isn't as much of an issue.
Torts: 18 pages
Property: 28 pages
Civ Pro: 23 pages

Property is much longer because at the end of the semester we started reading 8 cases a night, so there are really a ton of cases to add.


I actually wish we couldn't bring them in mine


Haha, I kind of feel the same way. I'm sure that's a grass is greener thing though.

I'm pretty good at memorizing things, so I don't mind. From what I hear from 2Ls, you should have your outline so memorized that even if you do bring it in, you don't have to look at it. That's ideal of course.. but I'm sure not how it always works out.

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ph14
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby ph14 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:16 am

ilovesf wrote:
ph14 wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:
ilovesf wrote:I can't bring my outlines into any of my tests, so brevity isn't as much of an issue.
Torts: 18 pages
Property: 28 pages
Civ Pro: 23 pages

Property is much longer because at the end of the semester we started reading 8 cases a night, so there are really a ton of cases to add.


I actually wish we couldn't bring them in mine


Haha, I kind of feel the same way. I'm sure that's a grass is greener thing though.

I'm pretty good at memorizing things, so I don't mind. From what I hear from 2Ls, you should have your outline so memorized that even if you do bring it in, you don't have to look at it. That's ideal of course.. but I'm sure not how it always works out.


Yeah, it just kind of simplifies things I think. That's kind of why i'm not looking forward to my take homes.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:29 am

ilovesf wrote:
ph14 wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:
ilovesf wrote:I can't bring my outlines into any of my tests, so brevity isn't as much of an issue.
Torts: 18 pages
Property: 28 pages
Civ Pro: 23 pages

Property is much longer because at the end of the semester we started reading 8 cases a night, so there are really a ton of cases to add.


I actually wish we couldn't bring them in mine


Haha, I kind of feel the same way. I'm sure that's a grass is greener thing though.

I'm pretty good at memorizing things, so I don't mind. From what I hear from 2Ls, you should have your outline so memorized that even if you do bring it in, you don't have to look at it. That's ideal of course.. but I'm sure not how it always works out.


This is why I think my outline must be missing some details in my outlines, because I'm find that I'm able to basically memorize everything just by the process of outlining. I guess maybe that's the point of outlining? I assumed that I would make my outline and then spend a bunch of time trying to memorize it.

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shepdawg
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Re: How detailed are you making your outlines?

Postby shepdawg » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:27 am

Example section from my torts outline --LinkRemoved--
Scroll down a little to see the torts example.




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