Toshiba Laptop

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:17 pm

kalvano wrote:
blowhard wrote:Uh yeah, they are still thicker and heavier. Case construction isn't as good. The Portege for instance is known to have hinge issues. They are closer I grant you, but not the same thing. Nor is that much cheaper. The Air starts at $999.



The 11" Air starts at $999. Those are all 13" or better. And thicker by a couple of millimeters maybe. In fact -

Air - 2.8 in x 8.94 in x 0.68 in
Acer - 12.7 in x 8.6 in x 0.7 in
Asus - 12.8 in x 0.71 in x 8.8 in
Lenovo - 12.8 in x 8.5 in x 0.6 in

And the weight?

Air - 2.96
Acer - 2.98
Asus - 2.86
Lenovo - 2.9


And the Portege hasn't even been released yet, how can it be known for having hinge issues?


I'm not saying they aren't comparable. But you're making it out like we're back in the days of the Mac being 2x-3x the price. They are MARGINALLY more expensive.

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kalvano
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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby kalvano » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:18 pm

blowhard wrote:And that HP is downright beefy compared.



http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/16/hp-f ... 128gb-ssd/

Even HP will tell you the Folio could have been skinnier and lighter, but that might have meant skimping on ports. It's worth repeating that this has a fuller assortment of sockets than pretty much anything else on the market. For comparison's sake, the Air has two USB 2.0 ports, Thunderbolt and an SD slot (on the 13-inch model only). The UX31 has USB 3.0 and 2.0 ports, along with mini-HDMI and mini-VGA ports (it comes with VGA and Ethernet adapters). The U300s has USB 3.0 and HDMI. So far, the Portege Z830 is the only other model with USB 3.0, HDMI and Ethernet and -- unfortunately for HP -- it weighs a scant 2.5 pounds.



blowhard wrote:I understand the stories say they are cheaper...that was before Apple dropped the prices on the new model refresh.


11" versus 13". In fact, there are 13" models that are cheaper than the 11" model.

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SilverE2
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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby SilverE2 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:19 pm

blowhard wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:
What? My Asus which I paid less than $800 for is faster than ANYTHING under $2k that apple offers. Plus who the fuck wants OSX?

Saw you edited: what do you think you get out of "the whole package" that justifies spending so much money for?


Size and speed. I'm not talking processor. OSX is way waster than Windows. Plus the Air has a flash hard drive. Boos from cold in like 20 seconds or less. Awake from sleep in under 3. 6-8 hours of battery life with real world use. I'm serious, just go hold one. I understand thinking they are overpriced...but you simply cannot hold one and deny its an amazing machine.

Have you ever used OSX? Most of the features in Windows you like were direct copies. Like I said...I was a hardcore PC guy. Play with one for a week and you'll never go back.


My girlfriend has a mac. Every time she wants to install software on the laptop, she needs to find a mac version of it. The compatibility issue is a huge pain in the ass.

My Asus boots in less than 45 seconds with Asus Fastboot.

It has 5 hours of battery life while being a full featured desktop replacement with a latest generation core-i5 processor.

Kalvano has posted machines just as small and light.

So what exactly makes it amazing? Just the operating system? Which is supposedly "faster"? This benchmark has windows smoking osx every single time: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=a ... art3&num=1


That is pre-Lion, and with 1GB of RAM! And it was a Mac mini...hardly the same thing. Not to mention it was gaming...when the mini is aimed at corporate clients. Nor did they go head to head. They only ran Ubuntu on the mac hardware.

See:
--LinkRemoved--


Fair enough. It still doesn't justify in my mind paying more for everything. But fuck, I don't even know why I got involved, this is a retarded conversation that has been occurring for fucking ever. I might as well be debating the existence of god or the pros and cons of taxation.

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kalvano
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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby kalvano » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:20 pm

blowhard wrote:I'm not saying they aren't comparable. But you're making it out like we're back in the days of the Mac being 2x-3x the price. They are MARGINALLY more expensive.



I wouldn't call several hundred dollars "marginal". It's $1300 for a 13" Air. You can get an Ultrabook for $900.


I'm really not picking on you, I'm picking on this idea that Apple's are so vastly superior. They aren't. It's entirely a personal preference, but Apple users present it as 100% truth and will have no debate about it.

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bk1
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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:22 pm

Holy fuck really with the Mac vs Windows debate? Seriously people are incapable of giving decent advice.

Okay before I blow my lid, OP you need to answer some questions. Laptops are so varied and so different that it is impossible to give you advice. You need to answer some questions:

$800 - hard limit? pretax?
How important is weight?
How important is slimness?
Optical drive or no?
Battery life minimum?
Screen size?
How important is boot time/wake from sleep?
How powerful do you want it to be?

blowhard wrote:Uh yeah, they are still thicker and heavier. Case construction isn't as good. The Portege for instance is known to have hinge issues. They are closer I grant you, but not the same thing. Nor is that much cheaper. The Air starts at $999.


wut?

1. Some are thinner.
2. Some are lighter.
3. Some are cheaper.
4. Construction? Arguable whether the difference is more than marginal depending on the model.

And to add:

5. Some have better screens.
6. Some have better speakers.
7. Some have better battery life.
8. Some have better keyboards.

Granted the converse of all these statements are true as well, but your bias is excruciatingly painful to read. Is the Air not much more $ for a comparable system to the 4-5 current Ultrabooks? Yes. But each of them do at least some things better than the Air (whether it be price, screen, Windows, battery life, etc). Does that mean the Air is the wrong choice? No, but the Air is not categorically the right choice either.
Last edited by bk1 on Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:22 pm

SilverE2 wrote:
Fair enough. It still doesn't justify in my mind paying more for everything. But fuck, I don't even know why I got involved, this is a retarded conversation that has been occurring for fucking ever. I might as well be debating the existence of god or the pros and cons of taxation.


I agree man. The machines kalvano linked to are dnice machines. I'm just saying the prices are marginally different. So little that personal preference can easily justify. But people try to turn others off to them and paint them like the $$ is so great there would be no reason to ever consider one. It's like arguing no one should ever by an Acura because Honda/Toyota is better. They are all good...but there are minor differences that make the Acura worth it to some people.

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:23 pm

bk1 wrote:Does that mean the Air is the wrong choice? No, but the Air is not categorically the right choice either.


I never said it was. Others said categorically it WAS NOT the right choice. Big difference. I hold open that the other machines can be worth it. I'm just giving my opinion and saying try one out.
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby kalvano » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:23 pm

blowhard wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:
Fair enough. It still doesn't justify in my mind paying more for everything. But fuck, I don't even know why I got involved, this is a retarded conversation that has been occurring for fucking ever. I might as well be debating the existence of god or the pros and cons of taxation.


I agree man. The machines kalvano linked to are dnice machines. I'm just saying the prices are marginally different. So little that personal preference can easily justify. But people try to turn others off to them and paint them like the $$ is so great there would be no reason to ever consider one. It's like arguing no one should ever by an Acura because Honda/Toyota is better. They are all good...but there are minor differences that make the Acura worth it to some people.


And again I will say that $300 or $400 is not marginal.

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:25 pm

kalvano wrote:
blowhard wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:
Fair enough. It still doesn't justify in my mind paying more for everything. But fuck, I don't even know why I got involved, this is a retarded conversation that has been occurring for fucking ever. I might as well be debating the existence of god or the pros and cons of taxation.


I agree man. The machines kalvano linked to are dnice machines. I'm just saying the prices are marginally different. So little that personal preference can easily justify. But people try to turn others off to them and paint them like the $$ is so great there would be no reason to ever consider one. It's like arguing no one should ever by an Acura because Honda/Toyota is better. They are all good...but there are minor differences that make the Acura worth it to some people.


And again I will say that $300 or $400 is not marginal.


It is when you look at failure rates, repair costs, average lifespan, cost of windows upgrades, etc. OSX is like $30 to upgrade for as many Macs as you own. Upgrade Windows once legally and they cost the same. When my battery finally wore out, Apple just gave me a brand new one for free because it didn't meet how many cycles they said it should...instant $160 savings. (Cycle count was way higher than HPs...I looked it up at the time.) Lots of people pay thousands more for cars they like. Easily 15-45% more because of personal preference. Why should we always buy the absolute cheapest laptop?

Again, I'm not saying everyone should buy one. But, you seem to be arguing no one should. Huge difference.
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby dextermorgan » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:25 pm

SilverE2 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:It sounds like you had a lemon, according to this squaretrade study: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/Squa ... y_1109.pdf, Toshiba reliability is second only to that of Asus. Before my current laptop I had a Toshiba that lasted me over 4 years without any problems.

With that said, before starting law school I bought a new laptop and decided to go with an Asus. The prices are competitive, the machines are reliable, and I love my laptop.

If you buy a mac, you're going to end up spending double for all the components anyway. I don't really see any reason to "save up."


No you're not. Why do you think you're paying double?


Go ahead and price an apple laptop. Then price a laptop from another company with the same parts. Look at the prices. Realize you're paying for brand name and not much else.

Have you done this? With the same specs? Every single time I have, they have been within a few dollars of each other.

And Macs have OSX.

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:28 pm

dextermorgan wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:It sounds like you had a lemon, according to this squaretrade study: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/Squa ... y_1109.pdf, Toshiba reliability is second only to that of Asus. Before my current laptop I had a Toshiba that lasted me over 4 years without any problems.

With that said, before starting law school I bought a new laptop and decided to go with an Asus. The prices are competitive, the machines are reliable, and I love my laptop.

If you buy a mac, you're going to end up spending double for all the components anyway. I don't really see any reason to "save up."


No you're not. Why do you think you're paying double?


Go ahead and price an apple laptop. Then price a laptop from another company with the same parts. Look at the prices. Realize you're paying for brand name and not much else.

Have you done this? With the same specs? Every single time I have, they have been within a few dollars of each other.

And Macs have OSX.


I don't think many people realize when they make such a claim that Apple's entry model is usually way beefier than the mid-tier model at others... Not always, but often at least in some aspects. Magazine stories don't help...taking a bottom-of-the-line model and saying...its cheaper than Mac!

It's all bias on both sides: http://lowendmac.com/fishkin/07/0109.html

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby leobowski » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:34 pm

If you want subpar technology, mediocre reliability, restricted software availability, an outrageous price, gimmicky design, and a user interface designed for mental midgets, definitely go with a mac. They're like the Volkswagen of laptops. Complete garbage, but you look AWESOME at starbuck's. Don't get me started on iphones.

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:35 pm

leobowski wrote:If you want subpar technology, mediocre reliability, restricted software availability, an outrageous price, gimmicky design, and a user interface designed for mental midgets, definitely go with a mac. They're like the Volkswagen of laptops. Complete garbage, but you look AWESOME at starbuck's. Don't get me started on iphones.


Nice trolling.

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:35 pm

dextermorgan wrote:Have you done this? With the same specs? Every single time I have, they have been within a few dollars of each other.

And Macs have OSX.


Even if true, Macs are far more powerful than a law student needs and don't have the option of buying something with less power.

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby kalvano » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:36 pm

blowhard wrote:It is when you look at failure rates, repair costs, average lifespan, cost of windows upgrades, etc. OSX is like $30 to upgrade for as many Macs as you own. Upgrade Windows once legally and they cost the same. When my battery finally wore out, Apple just gave me a brand new one for free because it didn't meet how many cycles they said it should...instant $160 savings. (Cycle count was way higher than HPs...I looked it up at the time.) Lots of people pay thousands more for cars they like. Easily 15-45% more because of personal preference. Why should we always buy the absolute cheapest laptop?

Again, I'm not saying everyone should buy one. But, you seem to be arguing no one should. Huge difference.


None of the manufacturers have high failure rates. They are fine machines. It's not like I am posting links to the most dirt-cheap Dells.

And I can walk into Fry's and buy a brand-new, full version of Windows 7 (not an upgrade) for $100. Using your logic, I'd have to do that 3-4 times to make up for the cost difference of an Air versus some of the others,

I'm certainly not advocating the cheapest laptop. OP here asked for one around $800 and you immediately jumped to a $1300 Air, asserting that that was the cost to get something good that would last, which is certainly not the case.

And your argument has shifted from "the Air is the best and nothing else even comes close...show me any other laptop that even comes close" to "they are pretty good and I'm not saying everyone should buy one, but I think they aren't bad."

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby leobowski » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:37 pm

This is a solid machine for under $500: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Lapt ... 489&loc=01

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:38 pm

kalvano wrote:
blowhard wrote:It is when you look at failure rates, repair costs, average lifespan, cost of windows upgrades, etc. OSX is like $30 to upgrade for as many Macs as you own. Upgrade Windows once legally and they cost the same. When my battery finally wore out, Apple just gave me a brand new one for free because it didn't meet how many cycles they said it should...instant $160 savings. (Cycle count was way higher than HPs...I looked it up at the time.) Lots of people pay thousands more for cars they like. Easily 15-45% more because of personal preference. Why should we always buy the absolute cheapest laptop?

Again, I'm not saying everyone should buy one. But, you seem to be arguing no one should. Huge difference.


None of the manufacturers have high failure rates. They are fine machines. It's not like I am posting links to the most dirt-cheap Dells.

And I can walk into Fry's and buy a brand-new, full version of Windows 7 (not an upgrade) for $100. Using your logic, I'd have to do that 3-4 times to make up for the cost difference of an Air versus some of the others,

I'm certainly not advocating the cheapest laptop. OP here asked for one around $800 and you immediately jumped to a $1300 Air, asserting that that was the cost to get something good that would last, which is certainly not the case.

And your argument has shifted from "the Air is the best and nothing else even comes close...show me any other laptop that even comes close" to "they are pretty good and I'm not saying everyone should buy one, but I think they aren't bad."


No, I jumped to a $999 Air that's going on sale for $100. OP didn't specify his screen size needs. He may decide a smaller system and $100 more is worth it.

If I started out offensively, it's because so many damn people outright start bashing them without consideration for the many nuances that can make one right for someone and not the other.

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kalvano
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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby kalvano » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:40 pm

blowhard wrote:No, I jumped to a $999 Air that's going on sale for $100. OP didn't specify his screen size needs. He may decide a smaller system and $100 more is worth it.

If I started out offensively, it's because so many damn people outright start bashing them without consideration for the many nuances that can make one right for someone and not the other.



Fair point. If he wants an 11" screen, that's certainly doable.

And I want an Air. I love the trackpad on Apples, it beats the shit out of every other trackpad made. I just want to run Windows on it.

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:41 pm

Despite my question list, I predict OP gets nothing valuable out of this thread.

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:43 pm

bk1 wrote:Despite my question list, I predict OP gets nothing valuable out of this thread.


No doubt. Has there ever been a laptop thread that hasn't devolved into the debate?

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kalvano
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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby kalvano » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:44 pm

He should buy an Asus for cheap.

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bk1
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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:44 pm

blowhard wrote:
bk1 wrote:Despite my question list, I predict OP gets nothing valuable out of this thread.


No doubt. Has there ever been a laptop thread that hasn't devolved into the debate?


Probably not. I blame OP for not being specific enough with their wants/needs.

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Extension_Cord
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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby Extension_Cord » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:51 pm

leobowski wrote:This is a solid machine for under $500: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Lapt ... 489&loc=01


Nice find, I would prefer 14' though.

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby Its Always Sunny » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:05 pm

Strong Mac fan boy force here. If you want a laptop that will run any application you need and be much cheaper get an ASUS or something similar. MAC is like what a Lexus is to a Toyota. It will have same hardware except twice as much and It's just for looks and luxuries that aren't required to get from destination A to B without breaking down.

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Re: Toshiba Laptop

Postby leobowski » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:06 pm

Extension_Cord wrote:
leobowski wrote:This is a solid machine for under $500: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Lapt ... 489&loc=01


Nice find, I would prefer 14' though.



Are you concerned about weight, or just used to that size? 15" and up can be handy in law school because you can do a dual view (e.g. word on one side and westlaw on the other). FWIW, I was used to a 13" and adjusted to a 15.6" pretty quickly--pre-emptive "that's what she said."




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