Q About Exams

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johansantana21
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Q About Exams

Postby johansantana21 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:30 am

Did anyone tab and refer to their outline a lot during exams (not to actually read what a rule was) but for example you spot the issue of emotional harm in a torts exam and you look up three different approaches in your outline because you don't remember exactly what the approaches were but you remember that three of them exist etc.

TooOld4This
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby TooOld4This » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:21 am

The process of tabbing your outline will likely increase the chances that you will remember the test without having to use the tabs. Go for it.

Also, consider creating a very, very brief outline for the class -- 5 pages tops (with lots of white space so you can skim it easily).

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dood
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby dood » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:47 am

the best grades I got in law school were on exams where I had shortest outline (1pg attack sheet) and didn't even reference that. IMO if u need to read outline for more than a few quick glances during exam u doing it wrong.

03121202698008
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:05 pm

I took in a tabbed full outline and a 2-3 page attack (listing the issues I wanted to talk about in each category). I referred to my small outline a ton. In a few cases I referred to my big one to verify something. On one particular final, I spent more than half of the time in my casebook. (And yes, I knew the material. It was a go look at this opinion, what was O'Connor's motivation kind of question.)

morris248
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby morris248 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:39 pm

You absolutely need to tab your outline and then a 1 page attack sheet as the other poster recommended. Open book exams are usually worse than closed book and anything that will speed you up since time is going to be your real problem. If you are having to spend time in your outline and casebook, then you are going to be out of time. Old exams are fairly easy to find and you need to take at least two and preferably three full practice exams under timed conditions.

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johansantana21
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby johansantana21 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:12 pm

So you have to have everything memorized down to the exact law...time to get to studying.

morris248
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby morris248 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:53 pm

johansantana21 wrote:So you have to have everything memorized down to the exact law...time to get to studying.


That will only get you past the Issue and Rule in IRAC and few points. Anyone can memorize the law, the professor wants you to show that you can apply the law to a hypo full of distractors.

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goosey
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby goosey » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:33 am

all of the above. have your full outline, with a table of contents [sorted in alphabetical order], a condensed outline, and an attack sheet.

you should make so many study aids for yourself that by the time the test rolls around, you have every single thing memorized

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:00 pm

goosey wrote:all of the above. have your full outline, with a table of contents [sorted in alphabetical order], a condensed outline, and an attack sheet.

you should make so many study aids for yourself that by the time the test rolls around, you have every single thing memorized


For open note, table of contents is key.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:58 pm

What is this attack sheet you speak of?

morris248
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby morris248 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:23 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:What is this attack sheet you speak of?


There are usually 14 key legal issues per course. If it is closed book, you must memorize this list and be able to reproduce it in shorthand form. Practice writing out your list over and over until you can reproduce it in less than one minute. Then there are six to ten major cases. You need know the facts from each case by heart since you will see them on the exam. Again, if closed book, memorize the cases in shorthand form and list them below the 14 issues. Practice so the list only takes you two or three minutes. When the test starts, immediately prepare your 14/10 list and that is your attack sheet. It is not how many cases or how much law you can memorize but how you can apply the law and cases to the facts of the hypo.

spondee
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby spondee » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:53 pm

I reference my outlines regularly during exams. I even crack the casebook sometimes and reread parts of cases. It goes against concentional wisdom, but it's worked out for me -- 3L, LR, on track for honors, etc.

Anomaly
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby Anomaly » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:07 pm

spondee -

What were your exams like? Do you have any advice for someone planning to use outlines and casebook during exams?--what worked for you, what didn't, etc. Pm me if you'd prefer. I'm planning on dipping into my outlines and casebook quite a bit.

spondee
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby spondee » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:32 pm

1. I've never intended to use the casebooks. Just happens sometimes. Maybe if a policy question plays off one or two cases. Or if an MC question is specific enough.

2. I do intend to use my outline. They're short-ish, 10-30pgs. In how-to form--step by step how to address a particular problem. Also include the core policy justification/issue of any particular rule/standard. Except in Con classes, cases included only as examples that clarify application.

3. Print then refine & modify through practice. CALI, Q&As, E&Es, past exams. This, for me, is the most valuable step.

4. Never tabbed or added TOC to outlines. Seems like waste of time. Know where things are by the time it matters.

5. And never memorized an outline for open-book exam. Seems like a waste of time. Just need to understand the standard, its policy, and its application well enough to know when and how to make good or best-available arguments. Then while doing so, I often have the outline open in front of me.

Hope that helps, but this is only what works for me. You may get different mileage. I posted above just to add a different perspective.
Last edited by spondee on Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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lottery
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby lottery » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:31 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:What is this attack sheet you speak of?


I don't use an attack sheet. I arrange my outline in a way that it functions much like one though. I usually start with a 30 page outline and constantly refine it until it's about 10-12 pages. That way I'm not only learning the material, I'm learning where it is on my outline so if I need to reference something I can find it immediately.

Sandro
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby Sandro » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:18 am

Looking at my impending exams, I feel like if I would have known how hard studying for the 3/5 of my exams that are completely closed book, no notes, I would have approached Aug-November much differently. Sure - I understand most topics. But throw in time constraints and the fact that some of the exams (torts) ask you to basically dump your entire brain, without the benefit of so much as a 1 page attack sheet that could atleast get my brain going in the right direction/make sure I dont forget one of the 100s of rules, it sucks.


I understand why you would want a closed book test - its easier to grade and somehow doesnt reward people who dont know it but just look at their outline. But closed book tests kind of just reward people for their memorization skills. Cool story.

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johansantana21
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby johansantana21 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:42 am

Sandro wrote:Looking at my impending exams, I feel like if I would have known how hard studying for the 3/5 of my exams that are completely closed book, no notes, I would have approached Aug-November much differently. Sure - I understand most topics. But throw in time constraints and the fact that some of the exams (torts) ask you to basically dump your entire brain, without the benefit of so much as a 1 page attack sheet that could atleast get my brain going in the right direction/make sure I dont forget one of the 100s of rules, it sucks.


I understand why you would want a closed book test - its easier to grade and somehow doesnt reward people who dont know it but just look at their outline. But closed book tests kind of just reward people for their memorization skills. Cool story.


Sucks man. Torts closed book? That does pretty much reward people for rote memorization...

Sandro
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Re: Q About Exams

Postby Sandro » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:43 am

johansantana21 wrote:
Sandro wrote:Looking at my impending exams, I feel like if I would have known how hard studying for the 3/5 of my exams that are completely closed book, no notes, I would have approached Aug-November much differently. Sure - I understand most topics. But throw in time constraints and the fact that some of the exams (torts) ask you to basically dump your entire brain, without the benefit of so much as a 1 page attack sheet that could atleast get my brain going in the right direction/make sure I dont forget one of the 100s of rules, it sucks.


I understand why you would want a closed book test - its easier to grade and somehow doesnt reward people who dont know it but just look at their outline. But closed book tests kind of just reward people for their memorization skills. Cool story.


Sucks man. Torts closed book? That does pretty much reward people for rote memorization...


Property (who didnt even test us on anything substantive) Torts(today, and its just a massive who can get the most check points for saying semi relevant gibberish) and Civ Pro (our professor went real hard into the minds of each individual justice on pretty much every case, but thankfully you can almost pre write this exam) - all closed book no notes at all.

I've pretty much given up on landing anywhere in the top of the class, because I cant memorize 100 case names/rules. Go law school.




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