Bluebook Question -- No Page Number

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PirateCap'n
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Bluebook Question -- No Page Number

Postby PirateCap'n » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:45 pm

Somebody help me out with a Bluebook question. If you have a PDF of a working paper (or any other print source) that doesn't have any page numbers, how do you cite to specific information on a certain page (since there's no page number)? I can't find a rule anywhere discussing what to do when there isn't a page number. Everything seems to assume that there will be a page number.

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kalvano
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Re: Bluebook Question -- No Page Number

Postby kalvano » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:31 am

Go to the source and find the page number.

PirateCap'n
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Re: Bluebook Question -- No Page Number

Postby PirateCap'n » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:53 am

kalvano wrote:Go to the source and find the page number.


That's the problem. I have the actual source. The source is a working paper. The working paper that I have doesn't have any page numbers anywhere (in the online or hard-copy version).

zomginternets
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Re: Bluebook Question -- No Page Number

Postby zomginternets » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:18 am

Just cite the full article, without a pincite. Since you found it online, cite per rule 18.2.2 or 18.2.3. Rule 18.2.2(g) specifically says only to use "numbers that appear on the document itself. Do not use 'screen numbers' or other numbers that may appear in a software viewing window or scroll bar." Since there are no such numbers in the document, the only other alternative is not to cite a page number at all.

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kalvano
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Re: Bluebook Question -- No Page Number

Postby kalvano » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:24 am

PirateCap'n wrote:
kalvano wrote:Go to the source and find the page number.


That's the problem. I have the actual source. The source is a working paper. The working paper that I have doesn't have any page numbers anywhere (in the online or hard-copy version).


When you say you have the actual source, do you mean an online version or what? Is it something you can go to the library and look up, or is it a paper that is a work in progress? What are you trying to cite?

I'm just trying to clarify if it's something you can go to the library and pull from somewhere, and if that would have a page number.

run26.2
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Re: Bluebook Question -- No Page Number

Postby run26.2 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:34 am

kalvano wrote:
PirateCap'n wrote:
kalvano wrote:Go to the source and find the page number.


That's the problem. I have the actual source. The source is a working paper. The working paper that I have doesn't have any page numbers anywhere (in the online or hard-copy version).


When you say you have the actual source, do you mean an online version or what? Is it something you can go to the library and look up, or is it a paper that is a work in progress? What are you trying to cite?

I'm just trying to clarify if it's something you can go to the library and pull from somewhere, and if that would have a page number.

A working paper is basically a work that is being shared with the academic community before being submitted to a journal--if it ever is--for peer review. Law professors often put their working papers up on SSRN. Having the pdf in this case is essentially having the source because there is nothing to pull of the shelf or get from Hein.

Most of what zomg said is right, but if it is hosted on SSRN, I'd say you should cite it according to 17.4, specifically the second example. Furthermore, the BB does not assume pagination will always be available because the next sentence after the one quoted above from 18.2.2(g) says, "When there is pagination information available, it should be included between the domain name and the date or URL, whichever comes first."

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kalvano
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Re: Bluebook Question -- No Page Number

Postby kalvano » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:46 am

Interesting. I've never seen one of those before. That explains things.

PirateCap'n
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Re: Bluebook Question -- No Page Number

Postby PirateCap'n » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:09 am

run26.2 wrote:A working paper is basically a work that is being shared with the academic community before being submitted to a journal--if it ever is--for peer review. Law professors often put their working papers up on SSRN. Having the pdf in this case is essentially having the source because there is nothing to pull of the shelf or get from Hein.

Most of what zomg said is right, but if it is hosted on SSRN, I'd say you should cite it according to 17.4, specifically the second example. Furthermore, the BB does not assume pagination will always be available because the next sentence after the one quoted above from 18.2.2(g) says, "When there is pagination information available, it should be included between the domain name and the date or URL, whichever comes first."


I was planning to cite it according to 17.4, and I guess that's what has me confused. Do I cite according to 17.4 and then look to 18 for the pagination issues? And yes, it is hosted on SSRN.

run26.2
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Re: Bluebook Question -- No Page Number

Postby run26.2 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:15 am

PirateCap'n wrote:
run26.2 wrote:A working paper is basically a work that is being shared with the academic community before being submitted to a journal--if it ever is--for peer review. Law professors often put their working papers up on SSRN. Having the pdf in this case is essentially having the source because there is nothing to pull of the shelf or get from Hein.

Most of what zomg said is right, but if it is hosted on SSRN, I'd say you should cite it according to 17.4, specifically the second example. Furthermore, the BB does not assume pagination will always be available because the next sentence after the one quoted above from 18.2.2(g) says, "When there is pagination information available, it should be included between the domain name and the date or URL, whichever comes first."


I was planning to cite it according to 17.4, and I guess that's what has me confused. Do I cite according to 17.4 and then look to 18 for the pagination issues? And yes, it is hosted on SSRN.

There are not rules for every situation. So sometimes you have to combine rules or analogize to rules. This is especially true with internet materials. So use Rule 17.4 and be guided by the principle in 18.2.2(g). On this basis, I would leave the page number out.




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