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One of my classmates said we are paying a small fee to use lexis and westlaw (through tuition). I told her I didnt think that was true, but she was persistent. Anyone know for sure?

Nothing the law school provides you is free. The schools obviously have to pay for these bulk subscriptions, and part of that cost comes from student $$. My bill specifically has a "technology fee" that likely includes part of this cost.

My school said that they give it for free to get you hooked (professor used a crack analogy). This seems mildly illogical since most(?) will probably use whatever their firm tells them to (not many shingle-hangers overall), but, I'll throw my prof's theory out there as plausible.

The schools usually do a bit of a quid pro quo: the services get access to students and floorspace so that they can do trainings and other promotional crap to get you hooked, and in return the students all get free access.

istara wrote:My school said that they give it for free to get you hooked (professor used a crack analogy). This seems mildly illogical since most(?) will probably use whatever their firm tells them to (not many shingle-hangers overall), but, I'll throw my prof's theory out there as plausible.

They give you access to their databases and incentivize inefficient/excessive searching through the respective points systems. That way, when you graduate and use it on a per-search or usage-based plan, they make more money off you or your firm.

No, it's provided free to the school.

Gecko of Doom wrote:

istara wrote:My school said that they give it for free to get you hooked (professor used a crack analogy). This seems mildly illogical since most(?) will probably use whatever their firm tells them to (not many shingle-hangers overall), but, I'll throw my prof's theory out there as plausible.

They give you access to their databases and incentivize inefficient/excessive searching through the respective points systems. That way, when you graduate and use it on a per-search or usage-based plan, they make more money off you or your firm.

all the training sessions I've been to for Lexis revolved around how to smarter use the search using focuses and restricts on searches so that you didn't have to search as many times and got to charge the client less.

I do think it's just so that you get super comfortable with whichever search system they're promoting so that you'll stick with that system for the rest of your life.

And I've been told it's free for the school

istara wrote:My school said that they give it for free to get you hooked (professor used a crack analogy). This seems mildly illogical since most(?) will probably use whatever their firm tells them to (not many shingle-hangers overall), but, I'll throw my prof's theory out there as plausible.

Well, a lot of big firms have both, and relatively few partners actually care what you use. And since fees are transactional for many plans, to the degree they get you hooked them make more revenue.

Seems to me Westlaw and Nexis are using this as a forum to sell their products to future lawyers. If the school does pay a fee for it, I doubt it's very high - otherwise, why would they subscribe to both Westlaw and Lexis?

Gecko of Doom wrote:

istara wrote:My school said that they give it for free to get you hooked (professor used a crack analogy). This seems mildly illogical since most(?) will probably use whatever their firm tells them to (not many shingle-hangers overall), but, I'll throw my prof's theory out there as plausible.

They give you access to their databases and incentivize inefficient/excessive searching through the respective points systems. That way, when you graduate and use it on a per-search or usage-based plan, they make more money off you or your firm.

There's some truth to this, I think. But more importantly than fostering inefficient searching, they are really trying to build brand loyalty. Many law offices, large and small, will give you access to both, so to the extent that they can get you to prefer one over the other, they stand to benefit from increased usage over your career.

Renzo wrote:

Gecko of Doom wrote:

istara wrote:My school said that they give it for free to get you hooked (professor used a crack analogy). This seems mildly illogical since most(?) will probably use whatever their firm tells them to (not many shingle-hangers overall), but, I'll throw my prof's theory out there as plausible.

They give you access to their databases and incentivize inefficient/excessive searching through the respective points systems. That way, when you graduate and use it on a per-search or usage-based plan, they make more money off you or your firm.

There's some truth to this, I think. But more importantly than fostering inefficient searching, they are really trying to build brand loyalty. Many law offices, large and small, will give you access to both, so to the extent that they can get you to prefer one over the other, they stand to benefit from increased usage over your career.

Exactly. They want you to log hours on their database when you're working in private practice, so they start trying to convince you it's the best early. The inefficient research argument seems dubious.

Bronte wrote:

Renzo wrote:

Gecko of Doom wrote:

istara wrote:My school said that they give it for free to get you hooked (professor used a crack analogy). This seems mildly illogical since most(?) will probably use whatever their firm tells them to (not many shingle-hangers overall), but, I'll throw my prof's theory out there as plausible.

They give you access to their databases and incentivize inefficient/excessive searching through the respective points systems. That way, when you graduate and use it on a per-search or usage-based plan, they make more money off you or your firm.

There's some truth to this, I think. But more importantly than fostering inefficient searching, they are really trying to build brand loyalty. Many law offices, large and small, will give you access to both, so to the extent that they can get you to prefer one over the other, they stand to benefit from increased usage over your career.

Exactly. They want you to log hours on their database when you're working in private practice, so they start trying to convince you it's the best early. The inefficient research argument seems dubious.

I don't know dude. They go out of their way to emphasize stuff like shepardizing. My favorite tactic they used in class was showing a youtube video where a judge yelled at a prosecutor for failing to shephardize a case. The video even repeated the judge's statement: "You didn't shephardize! -- SHEPHARDIZE -- SHEPHARDIZE!!" It made me like Lexis less.

Bronte wrote:

Renzo wrote:

Gecko of Doom wrote:

istara wrote:My school said that they give it for free to get you hooked (professor used a crack analogy). This seems mildly illogical since most(?) will probably use whatever their firm tells them to (not many shingle-hangers overall), but, I'll throw my prof's theory out there as plausible.

They give you access to their databases and incentivize inefficient/excessive searching through the respective points systems. That way, when you graduate and use it on a per-search or usage-based plan, they make more money off you or your firm.

There's some truth to this, I think. But more importantly than fostering inefficient searching, they are really trying to build brand loyalty. Many law offices, large and small, will give you access to both, so to the extent that they can get you to prefer one over the other, they stand to benefit from increased usage over your career.

Exactly. They want you to log hours on their database when you're working in private practice, so they start trying to convince you it's the best early. The inefficient research argument seems dubious.

I certainly agree that they're trying to instill brand loyalty. And I could be wrong about fostering inefficiency; maybe I'm just cynical. But producing future associates who are thorough but inefficient researchers would seem to be in their best interest.