What law schools do not allow laptops?

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consigliere0329
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What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby consigliere0329 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:50 pm

Hey everybody, does anybody here attend a law school or know of law schools (with 100% certainty) that ban the use of laptops in class? And not just this one professor or that one professor, but an overall ban on laptops.

I currently attend FSU Law and apparently there has been some discussion among the faculty of banning the use of laptops in class. The primary reason cited is students using the Internet instead of paying attention. Frankly, I think the whole thing is stupid because they can turn the Internet off room by room if they want and also because if people don't want to pay attention, they aren't going to pay attention.

I have a major issue with the idea because I take notes using my laptop because I can type and organize my thoughts much, much faster versus trying to write everything by hand (and my writing is barely readable). I'm not somebody that transcribes everything the professor says, I probably only want 1/5th of what is actually said, but that 1/5th of truly important stuff tends to come in a flurry and I like to be able to sit there and think about it while I am writing it down, then change the wording if I think something sounds better.

Obviously it also makes it much easier to organize your notes after the fact, prepare your outlines and review the material.

It would be one thing if the top 14 law schools were all banning laptops, but as far as I can find none of them have. Chicago has turned the Internet off in classes, and I am fine with that idea, but an outright ban is very problematic in my opinion.

03121202698008
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:05 pm

At Michigan it is professor preference. Most allow them but some don't.

akak179
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby akak179 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:49 pm

At Villanova the prof's of one section made a no laptop policy...so that section is not allowed to use them in any classes while the other sections are

kaiser
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby kaiser » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:51 pm

Its all up to the professors. I once had a semester in which 3/4 professors banned laptops in the classroom. Personally, I find it much easier to stay active and involved in the discussion when you are writing, and sort of tune out when taking notes on the laptop.

random5483
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby random5483 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:56 pm

kaiser wrote:Its all up to the professors. I once had a semester in which 3/4 professors banned laptops in the classroom. Personally, I find it much easier to stay active and involved in the discussion when you are writing, and sort of tune out when taking notes on the laptop.



Writing v. typing is personal preference. I do much better when I type. Writing just hurts my hand and comes out illegible (horrible handwriting unless I write extremely slow).


OP:

In most schools, it depends on the professor. Some professors will ban laptops while others allow it. Based on my experience thus far, few if any professors ban laptops. I had one professor last year who "discouraged" laptop use, and another who had a single test run class where laptops were banned. None of my professors have flat out banned laptop use, though a few professors at my school do (and I won't be taking classes with them).

I don't think any school has a flat out no laptop policy, but I also don't know of any school that prevents professors from implementing such a policy in their class. Basically, as the above poster stated, it is the professor's discretion.

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patrickd139
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby patrickd139 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:09 pm

random5483 wrote:I don't think any school has a flat out no laptop policy, but I also don't know of any school that prevents professors from implementing such a policy in their class. Basically, as the above poster stated, it is the professor's discretion.

This pretty much sums it up, with one caveat. IIRC, Baylor bans laptop usage in all required courses. More than half of your hours are required courses, so it's close.

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ahduth
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby ahduth » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:39 pm

blowhard wrote:At Michigan it is professor preference. Most allow them but some don't.


Same at NYU so far. (1L)

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Bildungsroman
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:42 pm

A law school would have to be a real backwards TTT to have a blanket ban on laptops for all classes. If the school is so RIGOROUS that they don't want people interneting in class they can just turn off the wireless in the classrooms.

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Always Credited
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby Always Credited » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:48 pm

My 1L torts professor banned laptops in class, and I completely ignored him and brought mine every day. He bitched, I asked him to pay my tuition, he refused, I kept using it.

As long as I'm paying to be there, I'll take whatever kind of notes I damn well please. I hate stupid professors.

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patrickd139
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby patrickd139 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:22 pm

Always Credited wrote:My 1L torts professor banned laptops in class, and I completely ignored him and brought mine every day. He bitched, I asked him to pay my tuition, he refused, I kept using it.

As long as I'm paying to be there, I'll take whatever kind of notes I damn well please. I hate stupid professors.

Please supplement this post with your torts grade.

HWS08
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby HWS08 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:27 pm

I haven't heard of any schools with a blanket ban. I don't even know of any professors at my school who have banned them. I think only about 20% of the people in my section take notes by hand (myself included).

acrossthelake
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby acrossthelake » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:29 pm

Mine varies by prof. 3 out of 5 of my classes this semester banned it (including LRW).

I pay attention less in classes w/out laptops. The profs move too slowly and so my mind just sorta wanders all over the place. At least when I have a laptop I can go back and organize notes as they talk or something.

random5483
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby random5483 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:38 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
Always Credited wrote:My 1L torts professor banned laptops in class, and I completely ignored him and brought mine every day. He bitched, I asked him to pay my tuition, he refused, I kept using it.

As long as I'm paying to be there, I'll take whatever kind of notes I damn well please. I hate stupid professors.

Please supplement this post with your torts grade.


Disregarding a professor's rule is stupid. Fairly sure they can take some kind of action (kick you out of class, or implement an attendance policy and equate use of laptop with a functional absence). At the very least they can lower your grade (most schools let professors adjust grades from an A to an A- or B to B-, etc based on participation.

I am very much pro laptop use (the students who gchat or surf facebook throughout class are bound to pay the price), especially for those of us who pay attention in class and take notes. But going as far as to using a laptop when the professor bans its use is probably a bad idea.

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ahduth
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby ahduth » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:48 pm

acrossthelake wrote:Mine varies by prof. 3 out of 5 of my classes this semester banned it (including LRW).

I pay attention less in classes w/out laptops. The profs move too slowly and so my mind just sorta wanders all over the place. At least when I have a laptop I can go back and organize notes as they talk or something.


The only class I have disallowing laptops requires me to take notes more aggressively than my other classes, because he kinda... meanders... and takes a lot of questions. (Read what you will into the fact that he's the Chicago guy, versus the prof grabbed from Harvard and the Harvard graduate.)

By the end of class my hand is cramping up. I obviously don't have the mind wandering problem.

The use/disuse of laptops in lawyering (LRW) is a question addressed as part of the instruction here - I think our LRW requirement is tailored to different ends than a lot of schools? I'm not sure.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby Kilpatrick » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:55 pm

I had two profs 1l year that banned laptops. One was first semester and I just took notes by hand and paid attention. The other was second semester and I paid no attention and surfed the internet on my phone the entire time. Same grade in both classes. Laptop bans are stupid.

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wiseowl
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby wiseowl » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:04 pm

random5483 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
Always Credited wrote:My 1L torts professor banned laptops in class, and I completely ignored him and brought mine every day. He bitched, I asked him to pay my tuition, he refused, I kept using it.

As long as I'm paying to be there, I'll take whatever kind of notes I damn well please. I hate stupid professors.

Please supplement this post with your torts grade.


Disregarding a professor's rule is stupid. Fairly sure they can take some kind of action (kick you out of class, or implement an attendance policy and equate use of laptop with a functional absence). At the very least they can lower your grade (most schools let professors adjust grades from an A to an A- or B to B-, etc based on participation.

I am very much pro laptop use (the students who gchat or surf facebook throughout class are bound to pay the price), especially for those of us who pay attention in class and take notes. But going as far as to using a laptop when the professor bans its use is probably a bad idea.


hope your exam logic is better than this.

i played poker every day in one 1L class, took minimal notes, and got my highest grade of 1L year in that class. there is no correlation. whatsoever.

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patrickd139
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby patrickd139 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:14 pm

wiseowl wrote:
hope your exam logic is better than this.

i played poker every day in one 1L class, took minimal notes, and got my highest grade of 1L year in that class. there is no correlation. whatsoever.

Now it's my turn to nitpick your logic.

One anecdotal success story does prove anything. Have you heard something called an "outlier"? Just because you surfed the web and made a high grade does not mean that there is no correlation (positive or negative) between those who surf the internet and those who do well.

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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby r6_philly » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:48 pm

ahduth wrote:
blowhard wrote:At Michigan it is professor preference. Most allow them but some don't.


Same at NYU so far. (1L)


2 professors in my section (out of 4 classes, at Penn) do not allow them. Professor's preference. I think it was good for the first half of the semester because it forces you to focus, not it's a drag because I want to add to my notes on my laptop when other students are talking.

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Always Credited
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby Always Credited » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:50 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
Always Credited wrote:My 1L torts professor banned laptops in class, and I completely ignored him and brought mine every day. He bitched, I asked him to pay my tuition, he refused, I kept using it.

As long as I'm paying to be there, I'll take whatever kind of notes I damn well please. I hate stupid professors.

Please supplement this post with your torts grade.


Did fine...A-. School policy is +/- 1/3 of a letter grade for attendance, participation and whatnot. So whether or not he actually acted on that policy and took it out on my grade didn't really matter - I very likely did better by disregarding his bullshit and using my laptop than I otherwise would have done if I did not use my laptop.

My original post was just supposed to be funny, anyway - didn't mean to turn this into a debate over how much respect to give the asinine preferences of professors. For my part, I give such preferences 0 respect.


Edit: just to be clear, I used my laptop for useful stuff...I prefer to do my outlining in class, and that's really not possible with a pen and paper. I've never even used gchat.

random5483
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby random5483 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:01 pm

wiseowl wrote:
random5483 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
Always Credited wrote:My 1L torts professor banned laptops in class, and I completely ignored him and brought mine every day. He bitched, I asked him to pay my tuition, he refused, I kept using it.

As long as I'm paying to be there, I'll take whatever kind of notes I damn well please. I hate stupid professors.

Please supplement this post with your torts grade.


Disregarding a professor's rule is stupid. Fairly sure they can take some kind of action (kick you out of class, or implement an attendance policy and equate use of laptop with a functional absence). At the very least they can lower your grade (most schools let professors adjust grades from an A to an A- or B to B-, etc based on participation.

I am very much pro laptop use (the students who gchat or surf facebook throughout class are bound to pay the price), especially for those of us who pay attention in class and take notes. But going as far as to using a laptop when the professor bans its use is probably a bad idea.


hope your exam logic is better than this.

i played poker every day in one 1L class, took minimal notes, and got my highest grade of 1L year in that class. there is no correlation. whatsoever.



Correlation is not causation. Without more, your experiences in class are merely correlation. I could as easily tell you that because a friend of mine did well the first semester and badly the second semester (he was on facebook a lot the second semester) that I have "correlation" to support my point. However, neither of us has gotten beyond mere correlation.

What I don't get is why you provide me the experience of one person to attack a tangential point I make? The point of my earlier post was that I am pro laptop use, but that people should not use laptops if their professor bans its use.

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NeighborGuy
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby NeighborGuy » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:04 am

1L here. My school has no blanket ban, but all of my profs so far, save one, have a no-laptop policy.

I was super stoked on finding that out, having just bought a netbook for in-class use before classes started. :evil: I would love to be able to type notes, but I guess that's a 2L privilege here.

shock259
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby shock259 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:53 am

2 of my 5 profs do not allow them. It's annoying.

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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:56 am

TLS forced me to take my notes by hand.

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lbeezy
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby lbeezy » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:16 am

A few of my professors don't allow it, and unless the professor is incredibly boring, I think it's excellent. In my experience everyone is more engaged and I learn the material significantly better. I've never understood the attitude where people refuse to take any professor that doesn't allow laptops -- sure, for some professors it would be pure misery, but definitely not all. My professors also generally poll us halfway through the semester to see if we prefer handwriting to laptops, but it always swings to handwriting. Literally.

Also, people who assume people fucking around in class are "bound to pay the price" is hilarious. I'm a 3L, and I don't think there is any correlation between how many gchat windows you have up and whether or not you'll do well in that class. People always try to make that assumption, but when grades start coming out you realize just how wrong you were.

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wiseowl
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Re: What law schools do not allow laptops?

Postby wiseowl » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:40 pm

random5483 wrote:Correlation is not causation. Without more, your experiences in class are merely correlation. I could as easily tell you that because a friend of mine did well the first semester and badly the second semester (he was on facebook a lot the second semester) that I have "correlation" to support my point. However, neither of us has gotten beyond mere correlation.

What I don't get is why you provide me the experience of one person to attack a tangential point I make? The point of my earlier post was that I am pro laptop use, but that people should not use laptops if their professor bans its use.


No one is disputing your obvious claim that violating a professor's rule is a bad idea. I and several others are just pointing out the laughability of the blanket "bound to pay the price" assertion.




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