Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

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maxm2764
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby maxm2764 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:02 pm

I think I'm going to finish our the semester and then take a leave of absence without the intention to ever go back. Might as well leave as many doors open as I can.

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maxm2764
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby maxm2764 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:51 pm

Hey guys, I hate to bring this thread up again, but I need a little more advice.

I've decided to stick it through the rest of the semester and then take a "leave of absence" after the semester. I don't plan to ever return, but I figure might as well stick it out for the remainder of the semester so I can leave that option open.

I guess my question is, how should I go about prepping for exams? Should I bust my ass studying, or should I kind of take it a little bit easier. I have studied really intensely since I started, so I have some basic understanding of what's going on. I also have my memo done, so I really just have finals to study for.

Basically, it's really hard for me to find any motivation or reason for killing myself the rest of the semester. Will I be okay loosening the reins a little bit?

I know this is probably a subjective question, but I thought I'd try.

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Always Credited
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby Always Credited » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:16 pm

maxm2764 wrote:Hey guys, I hate to bring this thread up again, but I need a little more advice.

I've decided to stick it through the rest of the semester and then take a "leave of absence" after the semester. I don't plan to ever return, but I figure might as well stick it out for the remainder of the semester so I can leave that option open.

I guess my question is, how should I go about prepping for exams? Should I bust my ass studying, or should I kind of take it a little bit easier. I have studied really intensely since I started, so I have some basic understanding of what's going on. I also have my memo done, so I really just have finals to study for.

Basically, it's really hard for me to find any motivation or reason for killing myself the rest of the semester. Will I be okay loosening the reins a little bit?

I know this is probably a subjective question, but I thought I'd try.



If you don't plan on ever returning, there's really no point in taking your grades all that seriously. Law school grades aren't transferable in any meaningful way outside of the profession...or even inside the profession. So it isn't as though you could show a future (non-law) employer one semester's worth of lawl skool GPA and expect it to mean anything.

Phrased differently: the only benefit of preparing for exams is to increase class standing and thus increase odds at getting whatever legal job you're pursuing. If you aren't pursuing a legal job, there's no point in preparing for exams. Use the time you would otherwise be preparing for exams to prepare for whatever your next step may be - securing job interviews, acting upon already completed interviews, or actually accepting a position and working. Preparing for and completing exams, no matter how well you may end up doing, is a complete waste unless you plan on getting a legal job or coming back to law school...which it doesn't seem like you will.

So have fun doing what we all wish we could do - walking into your exam and writing "LOL FUCK THIS DOCTRINE" as your answer to the fact pattern.

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maxm2764
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby maxm2764 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:21 pm

Thanks AC. I really appreciate the advice. It's actually very comforting. For some weird reason, I still feel guilty for every minute I'm not studying. Bizarre.

I really wish I could see the look on my K's professor's face if I said well, it is between two merchants so they should probably go fuck themselves.

yntzoid
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby yntzoid » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:41 pm

I'm in a similar boat. Deciding between gaining the courage to drop out after Thanksgiving break or waiting until after finals. The semester is paid for already ($10K) but I am juggling applying to other graduate programs on top of studying and working a part time job. Needless to say, my law school study habits have dropped off... I'm still ahead of the reading and all that in case I do take finals.

I have no intention of coming back second semester either but I don't know my schools policy on if I take the exams and withdraw at the beginning of next semester whether I will still have the grades show up and then Ws for next semester grades or if the Ws come up before the professors put in their grades. I would rather have straight Ws and say "I left because law school was not my passion or what I really want to pursue," than have future employers/graduate schools who ask for the transcript (though I don't think many will) see a potential poor grade and think I dropped out because I couldn't cut it.

I hope that made sense.

Good luck.

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paratactical
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby paratactical » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:47 pm

I'm a big always-do-your-best advocate, but I would prioritize shit and exams would most likely take serious priority hit behind finding a job. I would still take it semi-seriously. Who knows how much what you want will change in five years?

Seriously best of luck to you.

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maxm2764
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby maxm2764 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:55 pm

Yeah, maybe I should go ask my school about that. Believe me, I'd love to withdraw right now, but I just think I should finish the semester to leave the possibility open.

I just can't even explain how much I hate/don't give a fuck about/ignore studying for this shit. I have come to think of it as a HUGE waste of time and effort.


Also, I wanted to genuinely thank everyone who has wished me well. Who knew TLS had a soft spot?

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ConfidenceMan2
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby ConfidenceMan2 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:22 pm

maxm2764 wrote:Hey guys, I hate to bring this thread up again, but I need a little more advice.

I've decided to stick it through the rest of the semester and then take a "leave of absence" after the semester. I don't plan to ever return, but I figure might as well stick it out for the remainder of the semester so I can leave that option open.

I guess my question is, how should I go about prepping for exams? Should I bust my ass studying, or should I kind of take it a little bit easier. I have studied really intensely since I started, so I have some basic understanding of what's going on. I also have my memo done, so I really just have finals to study for.

Basically, it's really hard for me to find any motivation or reason for killing myself the rest of the semester. Will I be okay loosening the reins a little bit?

I know this is probably a subjective question, but I thought I'd try.


I'm in a slightly different boat than you (after a year, I dropped out of a different masters/professional school and am now pursuing law school), though I can relate to dropping out and all the self-doubt that comes along with it. I have a few thoughts:

1) Grades-wise (since this is your reason for bumping the thread), most likely employers will not care at all. However, they might. Some employers might even want to see transcripts from anywhere you've been a student (ITE employers are often being unreasonable, see (2)). Thus, someone might see an awful series of grades and assume you dropped out due to under-performance. Whether or not alleviating this slim risk is worth many hours of your current time is a personal call, and I think most sane people will realize it's a trivial risk at worst. Still, I can tell you that one potential employer DID look at my GPA from last year (my year of grad school).

Now:
2) This board, though in many respects filled with a healthy dose of skepticism and realism, is generally slanted towards thinking that law school is some kind of terrible economic gamble relative to other options. Whatever truth there is to the fact that law school is a huge gamble, the reality is also that the grass isn't all that green anywhere, presently. The economy in general is awfully shitty, and unless you plan on going into medicine or accounting (as some others have mentioned) I wouldn't expect a less difficult battle trying to get an entry level career-track type job than you would face, say, graduating median from a TTT/T and trying to get a legal job. A few personal anecdotes, which are of course of limited value, so take them with a grain of salt:

2.a) Prior to gearing up for law school, after dropping out I kicked around a lot of ideas. For one, I thought, I'd be quite content with "a job" and decided to just apply like crazy to entry level jobs in the area (and I live in an area that is supposedly "doing well" relative to the rest of the country). One job, mind you this is entry-level and not like a prestigious type of job, made me do the following: 4 interviews (!), 2 of which were with multiple people barraging me with questions; 4 tests, one of which was an hour-long IQ test (!); and, finally, I had to read an entire 200+ page book. I didn't land the job, and I can tell you it's not because I botched anything in particular up, just that the competition is fierce right now and I didn't have a perfect 4th interview (though it was not a bomb by any means). From talking with others, I know that stuff like this is becoming quite common. Employers are enjoying the exceptionally high volume of qualified applicants: they can refuse to give you the job for any number of reasons. It makes sense, but prepare to be frustrated.

2.b) A friend of mine recently graduated from planning school at one of the most prestigious such schools in the country. Seriously, there's only a very small handful of elite/super-competitive urban planning schools, and this is one of the most established of that handful. After all that debt and time, he's an unpaid intern. And that's not rare, judging from the urban planning forums. I mean, he's gunning for jobs that pay what... 35-45k? With a prestigious/expensive masters? And he's working big, unpaid hours. It's brutal.

That said, you might land something awesome in your first couple of weeks of looking. There are those stories, too. But just be prepared.

TL;DR: the economy sucks imho

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drdolittle
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby drdolittle » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:58 pm

ConfidenceMan2 wrote:I'm in a slightly different boat than you (after a year, I dropped out of a different masters/professional school and am now pursuing law school), though I can relate to dropping out and all the self-doubt that comes along with it. I have a few thoughts:

1) Grades-wise (since this is your reason for bumping the thread), most likely employers will not care at all. However, they might. Some employers might even want to see transcripts from anywhere you've been a student (ITE employers are often being unreasonable, see (2)). Thus, someone might see an awful series of grades and assume you dropped out due to under-performance. Whether or not alleviating this slim risk is worth many hours of your current time is a personal call, and I think most sane people will realize it's a trivial risk at worst. Still, I can tell you that one potential employer DID look at my GPA from last year (my year of grad school).

Now:
2) This board, though in many respects filled with a healthy dose of skepticism and realism, is generally slanted towards thinking that law school is some kind of terrible economic gamble relative to other options. Whatever truth there is to the fact that law school is a huge gamble, the reality is also that the grass isn't all that green anywhere, presently. The economy in general is awfully shitty, and unless you plan on going into medicine or accounting (as some others have mentioned) I wouldn't expect a less difficult battle trying to get an entry level career-track type job than you would face, say, graduating median from a TTT/T and trying to get a legal job. A few personal anecdotes, which are of course of limited value, so take them with a grain of salt:

2.a) Prior to gearing up for law school, after dropping out I kicked around a lot of ideas. For one, I thought, I'd be quite content with "a job" and decided to just apply like crazy to entry level jobs in the area (and I live in an area that is supposedly "doing well" relative to the rest of the country). One job, mind you this is entry-level and not like a prestigious type of job, made me do the following: 4 interviews (!), 2 of which were with multiple people barraging me with questions; 4 tests, one of which was an hour-long IQ test (!); and, finally, I had to read an entire 200+ page book. I didn't land the job, and I can tell you it's not because I botched anything in particular up, just that the competition is fierce right now and I didn't have a perfect 4th interview (though it was not a bomb by any means). From talking with others, I know that stuff like this is becoming quite common. Employers are enjoying the exceptionally high volume of qualified applicants: they can refuse to give you the job for any number of reasons. It makes sense, but prepare to be frustrated.

2.b) A friend of mine recently graduated from planning school at one of the most prestigious such schools in the country. Seriously, there's only a very small handful of elite/super-competitive urban planning schools, and this is one of the most established of that handful. After all that debt and time, he's an unpaid intern. And that's not rare, judging from the urban planning forums. I mean, he's gunning for jobs that pay what... 35-45k? With a prestigious/expensive masters? And he's working big, unpaid hours. It's brutal.

That said, you might land something awesome in your first couple of weeks of looking. There are those stories, too. But just be prepared.

TL;DR: the economy sucks imho

This is the truth (nice outline-style presentation too). I'd emphasize that if you were to end up with horrible grades now, anyone reviewing your transcript in the future will almost certainly assume you left law school b/c of them. Also, the grass isn't necessarily "greener on the other side" career-wise, but then other paths would probably not be so costly either, especially compared to the risk of ending up with a loss if you continue. Unfortunately at least in the US I'm afraid this cluster fuck of an econ is not likely to significantly change anytime soon, so I'd do whatever you think you could get excited about and do well in. Sounds like law is definitely not this in your case. Good luck figuring it out OP.

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Always Credited
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby Always Credited » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:59 pm

maxm2764 wrote:Thanks AC. I really appreciate the advice. It's actually very comforting. For some weird reason, I still feel guilty for every minute I'm not studying. Bizarre.

I really wish I could see the look on my K's professor's face if I said well, it is between two merchants so they should probably go fuck themselves.


Nah, the guilt isn't surprising...just because you don't want to be driven in a career at law doesn't mean you are no longer driven. That guilty feeling is your motivation bubbling up, but there's nowhere to apply it since you just don't enjoy the law. That's not a problem...in fact, that motivation is the solution to your problem once you begin applying it to things you really want to do.

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maxm2764
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby maxm2764 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:18 pm

Looks like I'm getting out now. Problems with financial aid for next semester. It's probably for the better, can spend more time hunting for a job now.

Thanks again everyone. Really really helpful stuff.

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northwood
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby northwood » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:30 pm

best of luck!

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Extension_Cord
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby Extension_Cord » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:05 pm

Good luck buddy. Whatever you, don't close any doors on your way out.

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drdolittle
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby drdolittle » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:17 pm

Before you make a final decision though, also keep in mind that law school and law practice are very different. Success/failure/degree of happiness in school doesn't necessarily guarantee more of the same in practice, at least long term.

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sunynp
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby sunynp » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:18 pm

I think you made the correct choice for your own life and circumstances. You won't feel guilty about not taking exams once you are out the door! Good luck . But I think you are going to be fine- working for apple even in retail isn't a terrible gig for right now.

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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby rwhyAn » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:20 pm

First off, good luck with whatever decision you make. Not that I want to make your decision any more difficult, and I'm not currently a law student, but I am older than a lot of you guys/gals on here and just wanted to offer a little insight. The job market sucks right now, as you well know. I'm now 28, but for the last 4 years, I had been stuck in a middle-management, dead-end job that was going nowhere and making just shy of $40k. I worked my ass off, usually working 50-60 hour weeks. Earlier in the year, I got laid off and was without a job for 4 months. During that time I only had one interview. Let me repeat that, ONE interview. And I had 5 years of W/E. I was lucky enough to get that job and I got a nice raise, but I know a lot of people who have been out of work for longer than a year and are struggling. I'm not trying to dissuade you from dropping out, but I wanted to present you with some different angles. I'm not saying that you can't succeed in the workforce, but jobs (especially the good ones) are in short supply. I just wouldn't want to see you drop out and be left with no exit strategy. Also, I'm glad that you're leaving the door open if you do decide to leave. It's definitely best not to burn any bridges. Best of luck!

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sunynp
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby sunynp » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:22 pm

drdolittle wrote:Before you make a final decision though, also keep in mind that law school and law practice are very different. Success/failure/degree of happiness in school doesn't necessarily guarantee more of the same in practice, at least long term.



You know in general this is true, except for that pesky issue of school performance and school rank having everything to do with whether you can even get a job practicing law.

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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby lbeezy » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:00 am

sunynp wrote:
drdolittle wrote:Before you make a final decision though, also keep in mind that law school and law practice are very different. Success/failure/degree of happiness in school doesn't necessarily guarantee more of the same in practice, at least long term.



You know in general this is true, except for that pesky issue of school performance and school rank having everything to do with whether you can even get a job practicing law.


Not sure if serious.

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Mick Haller
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby Mick Haller » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:21 pm

drdolittle wrote:Before you make a final decision though, also keep in mind that law school and law practice are very different. Success/failure/degree of happiness in school doesn't necessarily guarantee more of the same in practice, at least long term.


This is a key distinction. I generally dislike law school, but thoroughly enjoyed my time working at a small law firm.

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sunynp
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby sunynp » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:22 am

lbeezy wrote:
sunynp wrote:
drdolittle wrote:Before you make a final decision though, also keep in mind that law school and law practice are very different. Success/failure/degree of happiness in school doesn't necessarily guarantee more of the same in practice, at least long term.



You know in general this is true, except for that pesky issue of school performance and school rank having everything to do with whether you can even get a job practicing law.


Not sure if serious.

Well, if he fails or is on the bottom of the class because he hates law school so much that he can't force himself to work - his chances of getting a job practicing law are low.

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lbeezy
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby lbeezy » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:07 am

sunynp wrote:
lbeezy wrote:
sunynp wrote:
drdolittle wrote:Before you make a final decision though, also keep in mind that law school and law practice are very different. Success/failure/degree of happiness in school doesn't necessarily guarantee more of the same in practice, at least long term.



You know in general this is true, except for that pesky issue of school performance and school rank having everything to do with whether you can even get a job practicing law.


Not sure if serious.

Well, if he fails or is on the bottom of the class because he hates law school so much that he can't force himself to work - his chances of getting a job practicing law are low.


This still isn't true. I have friends who are in the bottom of our class who have SWEET jobs after graduation, and people in the top five who still aren't employed. Connections mean a lot more than grades sometimes.

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zeth006
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby zeth006 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:31 pm

OP, I'd say just try to get at least middling grades and drop out for a semester or two. Figure out what it is you REALLY want to do, then at least consider coming back (I'm sure others have said this already).

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Extension_Cord
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby Extension_Cord » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:51 pm

zeth006 wrote:OP, I'd say just try to get at least middling grades and drop out for a semester or two. Figure out what it is you REALLY want to do, then at least consider coming back (I'm sure others have said this already).


Yeah man, take the finals and study for them. Dont be foolish, you may want to come back in a year. You got a taste of law school, you should get a taste of a 9-5 job before you make a drastic decision. You may like working 9-5 and have no regrets, but theres a chance you will regret not taking your finals. You put in all this time, effort, and money, why not just take the finals even if your grades are median or slightly below? Buisnesses wont ask for your law school transcript unless you completed law school. The only time your incomplete transcripts will be required is if you apply to other schools.

You paid for it, take the final and then leave.

hexyz
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby hexyz » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:55 pm

I dropped out approximately a year ago because I knew the law was not for me.

I'm now half-way through a 2nd BS in Computer Science.

I may pursue an MS in Computer Science, but I haven't decided.

Before law school, I worked in the food services industry for minimum wage plus tips as I prepped for the LSAT.

Do I regret dropping out of law school? Hell no!

Dropping out of law school has been the best thing I've ever done. I dropped out during finals weeks. Put it this way, as everyone was sitting in class taking their Property final, I walked out the door as soon as the final was given to me. The entire classed just stared at me. The proctor was in shock that I was just walking-out to the point that he asked me "Are you serious?" when I told him I was done with my exam 5-minutes after he told me to begin.

As far as my career now, I'm either going to get into video game design, or work for an internet security firm that specializes in computer viruses.

If Symantec sounds familiar, then that's where I hope to be employed.

I haven't told anyone I dropped out of law school, and don't plan on telling anyone just yet.

My advice to you is to go to your finals, pretend you are going to take them, turn in blank sheets of paper or upload blank files for every final, and just walk-out of class 5 minutes after everyone starts their finals. It's great! Makes for epic law school tales!

If possible, I would suggest that you answer your finals in the following manner (assuming you are dropping out):

Gee...[insert first name of professor here],

This hypothetical scenario that you are using for the final is so ridiculous and unimaginable that I won't justify it's absurdness with a coherent and well thought-out response.

Why don't you answer it for me, and I'll review your work for accuracy, and then I'll just turn in your response as my answer. After all, this is how the legal profession works in the real world!


Your truly,

[Insert your name here]

P.S. I'm glad my massive student debt has allowed you to maintain a very comfortable living.

TempleU555555
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Re: Pretty Sure I'm Dropping Out/Quick Question

Postby TempleU555555 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:01 pm

hexyz wrote:I dropped out approximately a year ago because I knew the law was not for me.

I'm now half-way through a 2nd BS in Computer Science.

I may pursue an MS in Computer Science, but I haven't decided.

Before law school, I worked in the food services industry for minimum wage plus tips as I prepped for the LSAT.

Do I regret dropping out of law school? Hell no!

Dropping out of law school has been the best thing I've ever done. I dropped out during finals weeks. Put it this way, as everyone was sitting in class taking their Property final, I walked out the door as soon as the final was given to me. The entire classed just stared at me. The proctor was in shock that I was just walking-out to the point that he asked me "Are you serious?" when I told him I was done with my exam 5-minutes after he told me to begin.

As far as my career now, I'm either going to get into video game design, or work for an internet security firm that specializes in computer viruses.

If Symantec sounds familiar, then that's where I hope to be employed.

I haven't told anyone I dropped out of law school, and don't plan on telling anyone just yet.

My advice to you is to go to your finals, pretend you are going to take them, turn in blank sheets of paper or upload blank files for every final, and just walk-out of class 5 minutes after everyone starts their finals. It's great! Makes for epic law school tales!

If possible, I would suggest that you answer your finals in the following manner (assuming you are dropping out):

Gee...[insert first name of professor here],

This hypothetical scenario that you are using for the final is so ridiculous and unimaginable that I won't justify it's absurdness with a coherent and well thought-out response.

Why don't you answer it for me, and I'll review your work for accuracy, and then I'll just turn in your response as my answer. After all, this is how the legal profession works in the real world!


Your truly,

[Insert your name here]

P.S. I'm glad my massive student debt has allowed you to maintain a very comfortable living.



what school were u at? just curious..




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