1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

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ph14
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ph14 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:30 pm

thegrayman wrote:Res Judicata question

for a judgment "on the merits," are there hard rules for what is and is not a judgment on the merits?


Just they had the opportunity to litigate on the merits. So a claim dismissed over venue, PJ, etc. is not "on the merits." But a judgement that A was liable to B is "on the merits." Or a 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted is "on the merits."

merc280
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby merc280 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:31 pm

Most likely failed my property exam yesteday. 50 m/c and 2 essays, each with 20 issues each. Prof said he wanted 1 line of analysis per issue, but I only had time to cover around 10 issues on the second essay. The m/c on the other hand I think i completely failed as well. Alot of people didn't finish the second essay since there was just too much to do in 3 hours. Professor's first time teaching

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theavrock
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby theavrock » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:34 pm

merc280 wrote:Most likely failed my property exam yesteday. 50 m/c and 2 essays, each with 20 issues each. Prof said he wanted 1 line of analysis per issue, but I only had time to cover around 10 issues on the second essay. The m/c on the other hand I think i completely failed as well. Alot of people didn't finish the second essay since there was just too much to do in 3 hours. Professor's first time teaching


In situations like this the curve is your friend. Sounds like the exam was a bitch for everyone so I wouldn't sweat it. Besides your done with it so no use second guessing yourself.

I'm sure you did great!

*all of this advice is easier said than done

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northwood
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby northwood » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:36 pm

question about torts. In my pt hyp M thew a lawn dart at A ( a boccee ball with wings and a 6 inch metal spike at one end) and impaild A in the foot. Obviously there was a battery, but is this also an assault. when he was throwinng the dart- he yelled now dance you fool. I want to argue that there was both an assault and a battery, but im not sure if assault applies ( and on the exam the prof grades down if you are wrong with your analysis,so i want to make sure that im doing it right) thanks a bunch!

merc280
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby merc280 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:37 pm

theavrock wrote:
merc280 wrote:Most likely failed my property exam yesteday. 50 m/c and 2 essays, each with 20 issues each. Prof said he wanted 1 line of analysis per issue, but I only had time to cover around 10 issues on the second essay. The m/c on the other hand I think i completely failed as well. Alot of people didn't finish the second essay since there was just too much to do in 3 hours. Professor's first time teaching


In situations like this the curve is your friend. Sounds like the exam was a bitch for everyone so I wouldn't sweat it. Besides your done with it so no use second guessing yourself.

I'm sure you did great!

*all of this advice is easier said than done



yeah its harder when its happening to the person. I just suck at vested/indefeasibly condition subsequent and precedent way too much and thats all that was on the m/c. There go my hopes of transferring to gtown. but I guess if I had studied harder it might have turned out differently so i guess for me it was easy to predict 1L success.

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ph14
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ph14 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:38 pm

northwood wrote:question about torts. In my pt hyp M thew a lawn dart at A ( a boccee ball with wings and a 6 inch metal spike at one end) and impaild A in the foot. Obviously there was a battery, but is this also an assault. when he was throwinng the dart- he yelled now dance you fool. I want to argue that there was both an assault and a battery, but im not sure if assault applies ( and on the exam the prof grades down if you are wrong with your analysis,so i want to make sure that im doing it right) thanks a bunch!


If the P saw the lawn dart being thrown at him and was put in a reasonable apprehension of a harmful contact, then it sounds like a pretty clear case for assault. Since he yelled out "dance you fool", it seems reasonable to think that the P would have been aware of a harmful contact.

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northwood
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby northwood » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:41 pm

thanks... thats waht i thought as well, but wanted double clarification.


yall rock!

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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby thegrayman » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:42 pm

ph14 wrote:
thegrayman wrote:
ph14 wrote:Clarification question: I thought amount in controversy requirement for diversity jurisdiction was calculated exclusive of interest and costs. In acing it says that you can aggregate principal and interest owed on a debt to reach the amount in controversy requirement. So is that just an exception to the general rule that AIC is calculated exclusive of interest and costs?


that is my understanding. courts are allowed to play loose with the rules as well.


Do you have a source you can cite?


just my notes:

Amount in Controversy – For Diversity Jurisdiction
1) >$75,000
a. Exclusive of interest and costs
i. Except – interest that is part of the principal or the principal claim itself at the time it arose can be included
b. Attorney’s fees can be included
c. Sum claimed by the π controls
i. Must appear to a legal certainty that the claim is really for less than the jurisdictional amount to justify dismissal
d. 28 USC §1332(b) can impose fines and without costs from π if final judgment is $75K or less

....

So it looks like things like attorney's fees "can" be included and interest as part of principal "can", my professor was saying those exceptions give a little wiggle room, if the P gets his claim in and then gets a final judgment that is under the AIC requirement, the judge can give him a slap on the wrist.

hope that helps, my professor was saying (regarding my "playing loose" comment) that you rarely see a case get thrown out solely for that reason, the judge imposed fine is a shaming device for lawyers who should have known that their judgment was going to be less but claimed higher.

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ph14
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ph14 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:45 pm

thegrayman wrote:
ph14 wrote:
thegrayman wrote:
ph14 wrote:Clarification question: I thought amount in controversy requirement for diversity jurisdiction was calculated exclusive of interest and costs. In acing it says that you can aggregate principal and interest owed on a debt to reach the amount in controversy requirement. So is that just an exception to the general rule that AIC is calculated exclusive of interest and costs?


that is my understanding. courts are allowed to play loose with the rules as well.


Do you have a source you can cite?


just my notes:

Amount in Controversy – For Diversity Jurisdiction
1) >$75,000
a. Exclusive of interest and costs
i. Except – interest that is part of the principal or the principal claim itself at the time it arose can be included
b. Attorney’s fees can be included
c. Sum claimed by the π controls
i. Must appear to a legal certainty that the claim is really for less than the jurisdictional amount to justify dismissal
d. 28 USC §1332(b) can impose fines and without costs from π if final judgment is $75K or less

....

So it looks like things like attorney's fees "can" be included and interest as part of principal "can", my professor was saying those exceptions give a little wiggle room, if the P gets his claim in and then gets a final judgment that is under the AIC requirement, the judge can give him a slap on the wrist.

hope that helps, my professor was saying (regarding my "playing loose" comment) that you rarely see a case get thrown out solely for that reason, the judge imposed fine is a shaming device for lawyers who should have known that their judgment was going to be less but claimed higher.


I thought that it didn't matter at all if he ended up recovering less than the AIC? I also thought attorney's fees weren't included? Can anyone else weigh in on this?

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ilovesf » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:46 pm

ph14 wrote:
I thought that it didn't matter at all if he ended up recovering less than the AIC? I also thought attorney's fees weren't included? Can anyone else weigh in on this?

That's what we learned too.

thegrayman
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby thegrayman » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:55 pm

ilovesf wrote:
ph14 wrote:
I thought that it didn't matter at all if he ended up recovering less than the AIC? I also thought attorney's fees weren't included? Can anyone else weigh in on this?

That's what we learned too.


I have the following:

eventual recovery is irrelevant in the sense that if the P recovers < $75K that doesn't by itself render the verdict subject to reversal and dismissal on appeal for lack of jurisdiction, but the court has the discretion to deny costs to P if he recovers less.

is that different from what you guys have?

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ph14
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ph14 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:56 pm

thegrayman wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
ph14 wrote:
I thought that it didn't matter at all if he ended up recovering less than the AIC? I also thought attorney's fees weren't included? Can anyone else weigh in on this?

That's what we learned too.


I have the following:

eventual recovery is irrelevant in the sense that if the P recovers < $75K that doesn't by itself render the verdict subject to reversal and dismissal on appeal for lack of jurisdiction, but the court has the discretion to deny costs to P if he recovers less.

is that different from what you guys have?


Yeah that's a little bit different, but i'd follow what your professor says.

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$peppercorn
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby $peppercorn » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:36 pm

ph14 wrote:
thegrayman wrote:Res Judicata question

for a judgment "on the merits," are there hard rules for what is and is not a judgment on the merits?


Just they had the opportunity to litigate on the merits. So a claim dismissed over venue, PJ, etc. is not "on the merits." But a judgement that A was liable to B is "on the merits." Or a 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted is "on the merits."


Also discussed in rule 41b iirc

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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby thegrayman » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:05 pm

can someone elaborate a little on claim splitting?

what is it exactly? seems like it is where you have 2 claims with different recovery theories, is that like one federal and one state claim or something like that?

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ph14
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ph14 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:08 pm

thegrayman wrote:can someone elaborate a little on claim splitting?

what is it exactly? seems like it is where you have 2 claims with different recovery theories, is that like one federal and one state claim or something like that?


I think, and correct me if i'm wrong, it's basically like splitting property damage and personal injury damage that result from the same transaction or occurrence. You will be claim precluded if you don't bring both your claims in the same action.

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$peppercorn
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby $peppercorn » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:17 pm

ph14 wrote:
thegrayman wrote:can someone elaborate a little on claim splitting?

what is it exactly? seems like it is where you have 2 claims with different recovery theories, is that like one federal and one state claim or something like that?


I think, and correct me if i'm wrong, it's basically like splitting property damage and personal injury damage that result from the same transaction or occurrence. You will be claim precluded if you don't bring both your claims in the same action.


I believe that is correct. Parties may agree to allow claim splitting which wouldn't preclude but that will probably be an easy issue to see.

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AlexanderSupertramp
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby AlexanderSupertramp » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:21 pm

this is terrible. i am procrastinating studying for civil procedure that i am actually considering cleaning my bedroom.

shock259
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby shock259 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:22 pm

Still in the market for any Leg Reg exams with model answers. I only have 1 with a model answer that I have been able to find. RAWWR

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northwood
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby northwood » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:05 pm

shock259 wrote:Still in the market for any Leg Reg exams with model answers. I only have 1 with a model answer that I have been able to find. RAWWR



pmd you with an exam- doesnt have a answer though. I have teh same problem, and my prof has a gag order in effect, so i dont even knwo if what bs im doing is right or not. best of luck

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Mike12188
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Mike12188 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:34 pm

Quick question for someone here: If a car company has a manufacturing defect where the brakes don't work and someone crashes into a building killing people. The estates can sue Toyota directly right? (considering driver wasn't negligent at all).

BlueDiamond
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby BlueDiamond » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:44 pm

Mike12188 wrote:Quick question for someone here: If a car company has a manufacturing defect where the brakes don't work and someone crashes into a building killing people. The estates can sue Toyota directly right? (considering driver wasn't negligent at all).


in theory yes.. but real world its pretty hard to prove that it left the manufacturer with the defect and that it wasnt caused by a dealer/retailer instead

acrossthelake
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby acrossthelake » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:52 pm

Was flipping out because I kept comparing my practice answers to the model answer our professor wrote. Finally found and compared my answer to an actual A- exam someone wrote and realized my answer was about that level instead. I am forever grateful that students post their exams and need to stop getting upset because I don't nail everything the prof does. (But also learn from the model answers.)

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Mike12188
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Mike12188 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:54 pm

BlueDiamond wrote:
Mike12188 wrote:Quick question for someone here: If a car company has a manufacturing defect where the brakes don't work and someone crashes into a building killing people. The estates can sue Toyota directly right? (considering driver wasn't negligent at all).


in theory yes.. but real world its pretty hard to prove that it left the manufacturer with the defect and that it wasnt caused by a dealer/retailer instead


Ok thanks. Just to clarify (regardless of proving defect) the injured people(inside the building)can go right to Toyota or do they have to sue the driver first?

Also now an additional question...Toyota brake cases...manufacturing defect or design? Manufacturing right, since all the cars were not affected?

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Mike12188
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Mike12188 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:56 pm

acrossthelake wrote:Was flipping out because I kept comparing my practice answers to the model answer our professor wrote. Finally found and compared my answer to an actual A- exam someone wrote and realized my answer was about that level instead. I am forever grateful that students post their exams and need to stop getting upset because I don't nail everything the prof does. (But also learn from the model answers.)


Thats better than comparing your answers to the one student exam he puts up, thinking your doing great because you pretty much got everything answered, then going to class and having him tell you he put up a median paper as opposed to a model answer. :|

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dabomb75
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby dabomb75 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:12 pm

Mike12188 wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:Was flipping out because I kept comparing my practice answers to the model answer our professor wrote. Finally found and compared my answer to an actual A- exam someone wrote and realized my answer was about that level instead. I am forever grateful that students post their exams and need to stop getting upset because I don't nail everything the prof does. (But also learn from the model answers.)


Thats better than comparing your answers to the one student exam he puts up, thinking your doing great because you pretty much got everything answered, then going to class and having him tell you he put up a median paper as opposed to a model answer. :|

ouch. WTF kind of professor does that?




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