1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

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JenDarby
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby JenDarby » Fri May 04, 2012 10:35 pm

tedalbany wrote:CIV PRO!!!!
Civ pro is like inception... every time I think I get it I realize there's a whole 'nother level I completely overlooked, I get confused, and realize I know nothing.

Freer lectures. I can't recommend them enough. I think if you did nothing but watch them you could still do well.

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3|ink
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby 3|ink » Fri May 04, 2012 10:36 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
3|ink wrote:Quick civ. pro question:

I can't find this in my notes anywhere, but I distinctly remember hearing that objections regarding subject-matter jurisdiction can be raised at any time. I confidently believed this until now. I can't believe I never wrote that down.

Can anyone confirm?


yes, even if it's raised for the first time on appeal. b/c subject-matter jurisdiction is a constitutional requirement.

Thank you.

But so is PJ, and you can't raise that after your first answer. I thought the reason was that SMJ isn't a right that can be waived.

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Stringer6
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Stringer6 » Fri May 04, 2012 10:38 pm

3|ink wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:
3|ink wrote:Quick civ. pro question:

I can't find this in my notes anywhere, but I distinctly remember hearing that objections regarding subject-matter jurisdiction can be raised at any time. I confidently believed this until now. I can't believe I never wrote that down.

Can anyone confirm?


yes, even if it's raised for the first time on appeal. b/c subject-matter jurisdiction is a constitutional requirement.

Thank you.

But so is PJ, and you can't raise that after your first answer. I thought it was because SMJ isn't a right that can be waived.


think that's b/c D has given implied consent/waived it if he doesn't object.

but Article III defines what types of cases federal courts can entertain.
Last edited by Stringer6 on Fri May 04, 2012 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sapientia
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Sapientia » Fri May 04, 2012 10:38 pm

JenDarby wrote:
tedalbany wrote:CIV PRO!!!!
Civ pro is like inception... every time I think I get it I realize there's a whole 'nother level I completely overlooked, I get confused, and realize I know nothing.

Freer lectures. I can't recommend them enough. I think if you did nothing but watch them you could still do well.


where can i find these?

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Stringer6
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Stringer6 » Fri May 04, 2012 10:40 pm

JenDarby wrote:
tedalbany wrote:CIV PRO!!!!
Civ pro is like inception... every time I think I get it I realize there's a whole 'nother level I completely overlooked, I get confused, and realize I know nothing.

Freer lectures. I can't recommend them enough. I think if you did nothing but watch them you could still do well.


except it seems like each professor has his own take on how to do an Erie analysis

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3|ink
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby 3|ink » Fri May 04, 2012 10:41 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
tedalbany wrote:CIV PRO!!!!
Civ pro is like inception... every time I think I get it I realize there's a whole 'nother level I completely overlooked, I get confused, and realize I know nothing.

Freer lectures. I can't recommend them enough. I think if you did nothing but watch them you could still do well.


except it seems like each professor has his own take on how to do an Erie analysis

Yeah. Mine insists on the Stevens approach.

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tedalbany
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby tedalbany » Fri May 04, 2012 10:47 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
tedalbany wrote:CIV PRO!!!!
Civ pro is like inception... every time I think I get it I realize there's a whole 'nother level I completely overlooked, I get confused, and realize I know nothing.

Freer lectures. I can't recommend them enough. I think if you did nothing but watch them you could still do well.


except it seems like each professor has his own take on how to do an Erie analysis


This is what's killing me. I read the freer chapter on Erie and it makes so much sense and I love it, but it doesn't seem to be the way per se that my professor taught it.

But I still want to use it since it doesn't 'conflict' with what my professor taught, it's just more of a logical extension, so I'd say they can co-exist and there's no reason to have to chose between professor or freers procedural Erie analysis.

hijodehombre
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby hijodehombre » Fri May 04, 2012 10:54 pm

tedalbany wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
tedalbany wrote:CIV PRO!!!!
Civ pro is like inception... every time I think I get it I realize there's a whole 'nother level I completely overlooked, I get confused, and realize I know nothing.

Freer lectures. I can't recommend them enough. I think if you did nothing but watch them you could still do well.


except it seems like each professor has his own take on how to do an Erie analysis


This is what's killing me. I read the freer chapter on Erie and it makes so much sense and I love it, but it doesn't seem to be the way per se that my professor taught it.

But I still want to use it since it doesn't 'conflict' with what my professor taught, it's just more of a logical extension, so I'd say they can co-exist and there's no reason to have to chose between professor or freers procedural Erie analysis.


Sounds just like Walker. This is eerie.

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Sapientia
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Sapientia » Fri May 04, 2012 11:07 pm

Sapientia wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
tedalbany wrote:CIV PRO!!!!
Civ pro is like inception... every time I think I get it I realize there's a whole 'nother level I completely overlooked, I get confused, and realize I know nothing.

Freer lectures. I can't recommend them enough. I think if you did nothing but watch them you could still do well.


where can i find these?

Voltaire
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Voltaire » Fri May 04, 2012 11:08 pm

3|ink wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:
3|ink wrote:Quick civ. pro question:

I can't find this in my notes anywhere, but I distinctly remember hearing that objections regarding subject-matter jurisdiction can be raised at any time. I confidently believed this until now. I can't believe I never wrote that down.

Can anyone confirm?


yes, even if it's raised for the first time on appeal. b/c subject-matter jurisdiction is a constitutional requirement.

Thank you.

But so is PJ, and you can't raise that after your first answer. I thought the reason was that SMJ isn't a right that can be waived.

Right. 12h3 is what you're looking for. SMJ can be brought up anytime either by motion or sua sponte. 12h1 defines which of the 12b motions you waive.

Villanova3
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Villanova3 » Fri May 04, 2012 11:08 pm

Sapientia wrote:
Sapientia wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
tedalbany wrote:CIV PRO!!!!
Civ pro is like inception... every time I think I get it I realize there's a whole 'nother level I completely overlooked, I get confused, and realize I know nothing.

Freer lectures. I can't recommend them enough. I think if you did nothing but watch them you could still do well.


where can i find these?



You can find them on Barbri lectures. I went and saw this guy at Penn last semester. He got me an A- in civpro. Our teacher was terrible and I stopped going to class in Mid-October. Freer bought me the A-, nothing else.

hijodehombre
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby hijodehombre » Fri May 04, 2012 11:09 pm

Sapientia wrote:
Sapientia wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
tedalbany wrote:CIV PRO!!!!
Civ pro is like inception... every time I think I get it I realize there's a whole 'nother level I completely overlooked, I get confused, and realize I know nothing.

Freer lectures. I can't recommend them enough. I think if you did nothing but watch them you could still do well.


where can i find these?


Barbri. And I completely agree with JenDarby.

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Arbiter213
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Arbiter213 » Fri May 04, 2012 11:32 pm

Voltaire wrote:
3|ink wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:
3|ink wrote:Quick civ. pro question:

I can't find this in my notes anywhere, but I distinctly remember hearing that objections regarding subject-matter jurisdiction can be raised at any time. I confidently believed this until now. I can't believe I never wrote that down.

Can anyone confirm?


yes, even if it's raised for the first time on appeal. b/c subject-matter jurisdiction is a constitutional requirement.

Thank you.

But so is PJ, and you can't raise that after your first answer. I thought the reason was that SMJ isn't a right that can be waived.

Right. 12h3 is what you're looking for. SMJ can be brought up anytime either by motion or sua sponte. 12h1 defines which of the 12b motions you waive.


Worth noting SMJ can't be attacked collaterally.

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JoeFish
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby JoeFish » Fri May 04, 2012 11:33 pm

I really loathe civil procedure. The material, specifically. My notes have enormous 3-or-4-class-long gaps in them. And, in fact, at one point I got bored and wrote a poem in my notes:

Ants, ants
Ants in your pants
Taking all the time up,
Taking all your money up,
Ants, ants,
Ants doing a dance,
Using all your money
And your time
In your pants

I hope to incorporate this into my exam.
That is all.

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Stringer6
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Stringer6 » Fri May 04, 2012 11:34 pm

What can be attacked collaterally other than personal jurisdiction?

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JenDarby
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby JenDarby » Fri May 04, 2012 11:39 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
tedalbany wrote:CIV PRO!!!!
Civ pro is like inception... every time I think I get it I realize there's a whole 'nother level I completely overlooked, I get confused, and realize I know nothing.

Freer lectures. I can't recommend them enough. I think if you did nothing but watch them you could still do well.


except it seems like each professor has his own take on how to do an Erie analysis

Are you trying to say our professor doesn't follow Freer? I disagree with this point, and as a follow-up I request you send me your notes...

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tedalbany
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby tedalbany » Fri May 04, 2012 11:50 pm

Stringer6 wrote:What can be attacked collaterally other than personal jurisdiction?


Can't insufficient service of process?

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Stringer6
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Stringer6 » Fri May 04, 2012 11:59 pm

tedalbany wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:What can be attacked collaterally other than personal jurisdiction?


Can't insufficient service of process?

Don't know

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JenDarby
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby JenDarby » Sat May 05, 2012 12:01 am

Stringer6 wrote:
tedalbany wrote:
Stringer6 wrote:What can be attacked collaterally other than personal jurisdiction?


Can't insufficient service of process?

Don't know

I think we learned this semester you can't hide from me. You don't think our prof follows Freer for Erie?

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Stringer6
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Stringer6 » Sat May 05, 2012 12:04 am

JD: the difference I saw was that freer says that york's outcome-determinative test is still good law and to run it in an Erie analysis.

But our professor said to run a "modified outcome determinative test, which just means talk about the twin aims of Erie. Other than that it's the same I think -- just different phrasing and freer doesn't really specifically say what to do with a federal statute conflicting with state law.

I just listened today and agree that it's gold, Jerry, gold.

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Stringer6
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Stringer6 » Sat May 05, 2012 12:07 am

Modified outcome determinative test = outcome determinative such that the twin aims of Erie are implicated. I went to office hours a while ago and she said to just talk about the twin aims.

Edit: I think the E&E and Acing Civ Pro say the same thing as our professor.

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JenDarby
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby JenDarby » Sat May 05, 2012 12:15 am

Stringer6 wrote:JD: the difference I saw was that freer says that york's outcome-determinative test is still good law and to run it in an Erie analysis.

But our professor said to run a "modified outcome determinative test, which just means talk about the twin aims of Erie. Other than that it's the same I think -- just different phrasing and freer doesn't really specifically say what to do with a federal statute conflicting with state law.

I just listened today and agree that it's gold, Jerry, gold.

We agree then, excellent.

What you have above is actually exactly what I have in the very few class notes I have.

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tedalbany
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby tedalbany » Sat May 05, 2012 12:19 am

Our prof's model answers for Civ Pro are ridiculous. 19 pages single spaced. Goes on pretty much giving a treatise of the law for things that aren't even implicated in the fact pattern without applying any law to fact while talking about it (since it doesn't apply to the fact pattern at hand). I wonder if he just wants us to re-write the casebook in our own words, basically going against every success in law school article/book I've read.

merc280
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby merc280 » Sat May 05, 2012 1:56 am

1AM, and still studying in an undergrad library. The only one open 24/7. Damn you con law. If anyone knows about/ or enjoys con law I could sure use some help sorting out this material.

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crossarmant
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby crossarmant » Sat May 05, 2012 6:58 am

merc280 wrote:1AM, and still studying in an undergrad library. The only one open 24/7. Damn you con law. If anyone knows about/ or enjoys con law I could sure use some help sorting out this material.

Shoot.




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