1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

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ph14
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ph14 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:27 pm

thesteelers wrote:Can anyone explain horizontal/vertical privity, and privity of contract and privity of estate, in a simple, clear way? I know the definitions, or thought I understood them until I tried to argue about it while discussing a practice exam. Thanks.


Privity just means that the person succeeded to that interest directly and through a contract usually (don't really know how to explain it exactly, might try google). So like, selling someone my house = privity. Someone adversely possessing my land = no privity.

Privity (of estate/of contract is the same thing I think) is basically accomplished 2 ways: mutual privity and instantaneous privity. The original idea was something along the lines of you sharing the interest or something. So mutual privity is when you both own an interest in the land (ie, a leasehold or something). And instantaneous privity is kind of a legal fiction that says the moment you convey someone a deed to your land, that fleeting moment it changed hands, you both had a mutual interest in it and were thus in privity.

So basically horizontal parties are between the original parties (usually neighbors or something, say neighbor A and B). And then vertical is the successors to each's interest. So A sells to Y. That's vertical privity between A and Y. B sells to Z, that's vertical privity between B and Z.

Kind of looks like this:

A-----horizontal privity------B
l
l
l
vertical privity
l
l
Y

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lifestooquick
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby lifestooquick » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:35 pm

First exam (torts) tomorrow morning! I did light review today, but mostly just watched football.

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ilovesf » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:36 pm

I've been listening to classical music while studying lately. Chopin's funeral march just came on.. now I feel like this exam will be the death of me.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Gecko of Doom » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:42 pm

First exam (closed-book Civ Pro) tomorrow. FML.

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crossarmant
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby crossarmant » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:45 pm

Gecko of Doom wrote:First exam (closed-book Civ Pro) tomorrow. FML.


My Torts was closed book, I kinda preferred closed-book for that subject, but goddamn, CivPro's gotta hurt closed-book.

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NYC Law
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby NYC Law » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:49 pm

thesteelers wrote:Can anyone explain horizontal/vertical privity, and privity of contract and privity of estate, in a simple, clear way? I know the definitions, or thought I understood them until I tried to argue about it while discussing a practice exam. Thanks.


I don't really understand the other one's answer, so I'll give it a shot.

Privity of Contract ("PC") just means that you have some sort of contractual relationship with the other party (so both parties have to actually be involved), and have responsibilities. So a Landlord will always have PC with the original tenant, and that tenant will always be held to his leasehold obligations unless the Landlord signs a release for that Tenant. Likewise, a Landlord will never have privity with a sublessee, since that is a contractual relationship between the Tenant and the Sublessee. The Sublessee will not be held to any obligations, even to the Tenant unless there is an express promise, because he is not being assigned the Tenant's entire interest. I won't go on to describe all the other relationships for PC, but the basic gist is there has to be some form of contract between the two parties to expressly state what obligations exist, and on the flipside there must be an express release from the obligations to no longer be held to them.

Privity of Estate ("PE") just means that one party creates an estate, and the other party currently holds that estate that was created. So there would be no PE between a LL and T when there is an assignment, since the T doesn't hold that estate anymore. There would be PE between the LL and Assignee, since the Assignee holds the same estate that the LL originally created. There would not be PE between the T and Assignee since the T did not create a new estate, he just gave the assignee the one the LL created.

And for a sublease, there is privity between the sublessee and the original Tenant, since the Tenant created that new estate and the sublessee holds that same estate. There is no privity between the landlord and the sublessee, since the landlord created one estate and the sublessee holds an entirely different one. There is privity between the LL and original T because T still holds the primary estate that the LL created, the sublease was just carved out of that larger estate.

Sorry if this has nothing to do with what you're asking, this is just what was covered for our class.

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brickman
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby brickman » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:03 pm

for contributory negligence, am i confused as fuck or do we still have to do a proximate cause/ cause in fact analysis?

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NYC Law
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby NYC Law » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:07 pm

brickman wrote:for contributory negligence, am i confused as fuck or do we still have to do a proximate cause/ cause in fact analysis?


Yes. You mean analyzing P's negligence? If so yes, you'd have to prove as the defendant that P was actually negligent, and you can't be negligent without causing the act yourself. Pretty much all the negligence concepts flip over and apply to comparative fault/contributory negligence as well.

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booboo
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby booboo » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:09 pm

brickman wrote:for contributory negligence, am i confused as fuck or do we still have to do a proximate cause/ cause in fact analysis?


I may be rewording what NYCLAW said but remember that contributory negligence is an affirmative defense. So usually the plaintiff will have to prove negligence on the part of defendant (duty/breach/causation/damages) and defendant will rebut by claiming P was contributorily negligent.

Hope that helps?

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johansantana21
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby johansantana21 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:16 pm

booboo wrote:
brickman wrote:for contributory negligence, am i confused as fuck or do we still have to do a proximate cause/ cause in fact analysis?


I may be rewording what NYCLAW said but remember that contributory negligence is an affirmative defense. So usually the plaintiff will have to prove negligence on the part of defendant (duty/breach/causation/damages) and defendant will rebut by claiming P was contributorily negligent.

Hope that helps?


Don't think this helps.

But I thought you need to prove prxoimate/but for cont negligence...

You are alleging that the opponent is negligent. So why wouldn't you have to prove causation?

thegrayman
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby thegrayman » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:24 pm

Did Twombly overrule Conley for pleadings in general or just pleadings for antitrust actions?

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ph14
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ph14 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:25 pm

thegrayman wrote:Did Twombly overrule Conley for pleadings in general or just pleadings for antitrust actions?


It's not entirely clear. Law isn't completely settled yet.

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ilovesf » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:25 pm

thegrayman wrote:Did Twombly overrule Conley for pleadings in general or just pleadings for antitrust actions?

twombly applied to anti trust, iqbal extended it to everything

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:29 pm

Image

thegrayman
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby thegrayman » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:29 pm

EDIT: nevermind I noticed Iqbal is mentioned in the casenotes, but we just didn't cover the full case
Last edited by thegrayman on Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ph14
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ph14 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:30 pm

Eugenie Danglars wrote:Image


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:31 pm

ph14 wrote:
Eugenie Danglars wrote:Image


:lol: :lol: :lol:


There's a whole tumblr of them!

gingerloblawslaw.tumblr.com

thesteelers
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby thesteelers » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:32 pm

ph14 wrote:
thesteelers wrote:Can anyone explain horizontal/vertical privity, and privity of contract and privity of estate, in a simple, clear way? I know the definitions, or thought I understood them until I tried to argue about it while discussing a practice exam. Thanks.


Privity just means that the person succeeded to that interest directly and through a contract usually (don't really know how to explain it exactly, might try google). So like, selling someone my house = privity. Someone adversely possessing my land = no privity.

Privity (of estate/of contract is the same thing I think) is basically accomplished 2 ways: mutual privity and instantaneous privity. The original idea was something along the lines of you sharing the interest or something. So mutual privity is when you both own an interest in the land (ie, a leasehold or something). And instantaneous privity is kind of a legal fiction that says the moment you convey someone a deed to your land, that fleeting moment it changed hands, you both had a mutual interest in it and were thus in privity.

So basically horizontal parties are between the original parties (usually neighbors or something, say neighbor A and B). And then vertical is the successors to each's interest. So A sells to Y. That's vertical privity between A and Y. B sells to Z, that's vertical privity between B and Z.

Kind of looks like this:

A-----horizontal privity------B
l
l
l
vertical privity
l
l
Y


got it, thanks!

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ph14
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ph14 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:32 pm

Eugenie Danglars wrote:
ph14 wrote:
Eugenie Danglars wrote:Image


:lol: :lol: :lol:


There's a whole tumblr of them!

gingerloblawslaw.tumblr.com


Sooooo good. What a great idea.

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ilovesf
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby ilovesf » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:35 pm

Eugenie Danglars wrote:
gingerloblawslaw.tumblr.com

Thank you for this!

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Dany
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Dany » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:39 pm

thegrayman wrote:EDIT: nevermind I noticed Iqbal is mentioned in the casenotes, but we just didn't cover the full case

You covered Twombly without Iqbal? I thought they were like a pair. Twiqbal.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby FeelTheHeat » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:45 pm

ilovesf wrote:
Eugenie Danglars wrote:
gingerloblawslaw.tumblr.com

Thank you for this!

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby FeelTheHeat » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:50 pm

--ImageRemoved--

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booboo
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby booboo » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:51 pm

johansantana21 wrote:
booboo wrote:
brickman wrote:for contributory negligence, am i confused as fuck or do we still have to do a proximate cause/ cause in fact analysis?


I may be rewording what NYCLAW said but remember that contributory negligence is an affirmative defense. So usually the plaintiff will have to prove negligence on the part of defendant (duty/breach/causation/damages) and defendant will rebut by claiming P was contributorily negligent.

Hope that helps?


Don't think this helps.

But I thought you need to prove prxoimate/but for cont negligence...

You are alleging that the opponent is negligent. So why wouldn't you have to prove causation?


Now I understand your question. If you think about the circumstances that a contributory negligence defense would be used, it would appear implicit that the causation was within the argument of contributory negligence. To say that a plaintiff caused their own injury would imply that they were the but-for cause for their injury, but even if not, the defendant could easily say this by saying whatever action the defendant believes the plaintiff committed was the but-for cause. When it comes to proximate cause, the defendant does also have to prove this. I think an example of this is Gyerman v. United States Lines.

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Hannibal
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Re: 1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread

Postby Hannibal » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:51 pm

Eugenie Danglars wrote:There's a whole tumblr of them!

gingerloblawslaw.tumblr.com


Hell yes.




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