What do you hate most about law school?

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What do you hate most about LS?

The curve
91
37%
The gunners
33
13%
The assigned work
14
6%
The unassigned work
17
7%
The professors
4
2%
The economy
90
36%
 
Total votes: 249

r6_philly
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:17 pm

I was thinking about this, there really isn't anything to hate for me. Somethings take a little getting used to, and I have to make some adjustments, but things range from neutral to likable to me.

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kapital98
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby kapital98 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:18 pm

c3pO4 wrote:I hate that it reminds me of high school and I feel exactly the same walking through the law school building as I did walking through my high school.


:D :D :D

edit: On second thought...

:( :( :(

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ahduth
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby ahduth » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:07 pm

JCougar wrote:
ahduth wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:
ahduth wrote:The only thing that's still driving me nuts is the rent in NYC. I just signed over a whole additional pile of money today. But bitching about living in NYC is probably a bit of a glance inside the horse's mouth I suppose.

Enjoy your NYC cost of living, bro.


Preaching to the choir (hell, maybe you're in the choir too). Chicago firms are going to be all over my EIW bid list.


This may not be a good idea. Competition for Chicago these days is fierce -- mainly due to the fact that there's zero jobs there. It's risky to waste bids on Chicago unless you're a sure thing to get a job there. Not sure what school you go to, but I would only bid heavily there if I were in the top 33% at a T14. There's been a lot of stories on here about people at median from T10 schools (even some T6 schools) striking out at OCI because they wasted all their bids on Chicago.


NYU, Chicago native. I'm personally hoping to clerk or not get killed on grades.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby JusticeHarlan » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:36 pm

soccerfreak wrote:+1 to whoever said no feedback. Wish I knew if my entire approach/study habits will get me A's/F's while I, you know, could do something about it.

The period after second semester starts, but before first semester grades come down, is this feeling on steroids.

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JCougar
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby JCougar » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:16 pm

ahduth wrote:
JCougar wrote:
ahduth wrote:Preaching to the choir (hell, maybe you're in the choir too). Chicago firms are going to be all over my EIW bid list.


This may not be a good idea. Competition for Chicago these days is fierce -- mainly due to the fact that there's zero jobs there. It's risky to waste bids on Chicago unless you're a sure thing to get a job there. Not sure what school you go to, but I would only bid heavily there if I were in the top 33% at a T14. There's been a lot of stories on here about people at median from T10 schools (even some T6 schools) striking out at OCI because they wasted all their bids on Chicago.


NYU, Chicago native. I'm personally hoping to clerk or not get killed on grades.


Cool. Chicago native should help. Not trying to discourage you or anything, but...

I'd love to work in Chicago too, and have lived there before and worked for some downtown Biglaw clients, but I've been basically treated as if I have leprosy or something. I'm not going to NYU though, nor am I on law review...or even close. But I have read on here about people at University of Chicago at or around median having trouble because they bid on all Chicago, while people in the same position who bid on NYC had plenty of options. It's anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth.

Bottom line is ITE Chicago market sucks incredibly more than a lot of places. Regional schools that used to send their Law Review members to Chi-town (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio State) are now almost completely cut out of the recruiting process, and stronger regionals like Notre Dame, UIUC, and WUSTL, where top third (cum laude) used to be enough are now limited generally to people on law review. And within the T14, it seems like slim pickens unless you are top third, whereas median used to give you a decent chance.

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ph14
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby ph14 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:23 pm

JCougar wrote:
ahduth wrote:
JCougar wrote:
ahduth wrote:Preaching to the choir (hell, maybe you're in the choir too). Chicago firms are going to be all over my EIW bid list.


This may not be a good idea. Competition for Chicago these days is fierce -- mainly due to the fact that there's zero jobs there. It's risky to waste bids on Chicago unless you're a sure thing to get a job there. Not sure what school you go to, but I would only bid heavily there if I were in the top 33% at a T14. There's been a lot of stories on here about people at median from T10 schools (even some T6 schools) striking out at OCI because they wasted all their bids on Chicago.


NYU, Chicago native. I'm personally hoping to clerk or not get killed on grades.


Cool. Chicago native should help. Not trying to discourage you or anything, but...

I'd love to work in Chicago too, and have lived there before and worked for some downtown Biglaw clients, but I've been basically treated as if I have leprosy or something. I'm not going to NYU though, nor am I on law review...or even close. But I have read on here about people at University of Chicago at or around median having trouble because they bid on all Chicago, while people in the same position who bid on NYC had plenty of options. It's anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth.

Bottom line is ITE Chicago market sucks incredibly more than a lot of places. Regional schools that used to send their Law Review members to Chi-town (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio State) are now almost completely cut out of the recruiting process, and stronger regionals like Notre Dame, UIUC, and WUSTL, where top third (cum laude) used to be enough are now limited generally to people on law review. And within the T14, it seems like slim pickens unless you are top third, whereas median used to give you a decent chance.


How are the other national markets?

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JCougar
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby JCougar » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:47 pm

ph14 wrote:
JCougar wrote:Cool. Chicago native should help. Not trying to discourage you or anything, but...

I'd love to work in Chicago too, and have lived there before and worked for some downtown Biglaw clients, but I've been basically treated as if I have leprosy or something. I'm not going to NYU though, nor am I on law review...or even close. But I have read on here about people at University of Chicago at or around median having trouble because they bid on all Chicago, while people in the same position who bid on NYC had plenty of options. It's anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth.

Bottom line is ITE Chicago market sucks incredibly more than a lot of places. Regional schools that used to send their Law Review members to Chi-town (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio State) are now almost completely cut out of the recruiting process, and stronger regionals like Notre Dame, UIUC, and WUSTL, where top third (cum laude) used to be enough are now limited generally to people on law review. And within the T14, it seems like slim pickens unless you are top third, whereas median used to give you a decent chance.


How are the other national markets?


Ask around. I focused wasted my time on mostly Chicago. But I hear California is just as shitty. St. Louis where I am has only picked up a tad.

NYC certainly is not back to where it was, but it seems like some things have picked up a bit there. Also, I hear Texas is healthy -- but it was never that big to begin with, so unless you have ties, it's not a great option. DC never hired a ton to begin with, and things there are still in the gutter.

Basically, it's still shitty everywhere. The lesson is to 1) network, especially in your home town, and 2) include NYC in your job search no matter where else you are looking. Even if you hate NYC, it's better to have a job there than be doing doc review in some secondary market.

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maxm2764
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby maxm2764 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:39 am

mpj_3050 wrote:I fucking despise law school and question what the fuck I'm doing there every single day. Seriously, only reason I'm there is because I pay like 5k a year and have the debt covered.

I voted economy but at my school everyone keeps saying the economy isn't that bad. Really tards? That is why we have an abysmal solid reporting rate for salary data right?


+10000000. I have been battling this too. I fucking hate not having weekends. I fucking hate spending 98% of my day inside in the books. I question my decision to go to law school almost every day.

I can't decide if what I'm feeling is normal or I should try and find something else to do with my life. Is this how everyone feels?

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ahduth
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby ahduth » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:41 am

JCougar wrote:
ahduth wrote:
JCougar wrote:
ahduth wrote:Preaching to the choir (hell, maybe you're in the choir too). Chicago firms are going to be all over my EIW bid list.


This may not be a good idea. Competition for Chicago these days is fierce -- mainly due to the fact that there's zero jobs there. It's risky to waste bids on Chicago unless you're a sure thing to get a job there. Not sure what school you go to, but I would only bid heavily there if I were in the top 33% at a T14. There's been a lot of stories on here about people at median from T10 schools (even some T6 schools) striking out at OCI because they wasted all their bids on Chicago.


NYU, Chicago native. I'm personally hoping to clerk or not get killed on grades.


Cool. Chicago native should help. Not trying to discourage you or anything, but...

I'd love to work in Chicago too, and have lived there before and worked for some downtown Biglaw clients, but I've been basically treated as if I have leprosy or something. I'm not going to NYU though, nor am I on law review...or even close. But I have read on here about people at University of Chicago at or around median having trouble because they bid on all Chicago, while people in the same position who bid on NYC had plenty of options. It's anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth.

Bottom line is ITE Chicago market sucks incredibly more than a lot of places. Regional schools that used to send their Law Review members to Chi-town (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio State) are now almost completely cut out of the recruiting process, and stronger regionals like Notre Dame, UIUC, and WUSTL, where top third (cum laude) used to be enough are now limited generally to people on law review. And within the T14, it seems like slim pickens unless you are top third, whereas median used to give you a decent chance.


Yeah, this is what I've heard. I dunno. Getting a job with one of the top firms in Chicago isn't really happening right now, if everything isn't stacked right. The "irony" that I might have a better chance getting a job in the city I'm going to school in, than the city I'm from is... what it is, I suppose

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kapital98
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby kapital98 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:43 am

maxm2764 wrote:
mpj_3050 wrote:I fucking despise law school and question what the fuck I'm doing there every single day. Seriously, only reason I'm there is because I pay like 5k a year and have the debt covered.

I voted economy but at my school everyone keeps saying the economy isn't that bad. Really tards? That is why we have an abysmal solid reporting rate for salary data right?


+10000000. I have been battling this too. I fucking hate not having weekends. I fucking hate spending 98% of my day inside in the books. I question my decision to go to law school almost every day.

I can't decide if what I'm feeling is normal or I should try and find something else to do with my life. Is this how everyone feels?


Relax. Take some time for yourself and feel better.

On the other hand: Your investment in law school is a sunk cost. If you quit now it's not the end of the world and you will be refunded for most of the years tuition.

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maxm2764
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby maxm2764 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:46 am

kapital98 wrote:
maxm2764 wrote:
mpj_3050 wrote:I fucking despise law school and question what the fuck I'm doing there every single day. Seriously, only reason I'm there is because I pay like 5k a year and have the debt covered.

I voted economy but at my school everyone keeps saying the economy isn't that bad. Really tards? That is why we have an abysmal solid reporting rate for salary data right?


+10000000. I have been battling this too. I fucking hate not having weekends. I fucking hate spending 98% of my day inside in the books. I question my decision to go to law school almost every day.

I can't decide if what I'm feeling is normal or I should try and find something else to do with my life. Is this how everyone feels?


Relax. Take some time for yourself and feel better.

On the other hand: Your investment in law school is a sunk cost. If you quit now it's not the end of the world and you will be refunded for most of the years tuition.


I'm pretty sure this isn't the place for me. Sunk cost is exactly my feeling. After the semester I'll most likely be withdrawing. I'd love to withdraw right now, but I should probably finish what I started and all of that.

One semester's tuition, in the big scheme of things, is a lot easier to handle that six.

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starlight007
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby starlight007 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:53 am

I hate that everyone is dying for study groups, sometimes even making them on a whim in the bar...sometimes enough is enough when a "study group" becomes a quarter of the section in a classroom on a Saturday reviewing shit. gtfo


oh year....and that curve thingy lol

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JCougar
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby JCougar » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:31 am

My professors are reporting record number of 1Ls coming in during office hours this year.

Everybody seems scared shitless about jobs/grades. Of course, another one of my professors, Tamanaha, reportedly started out his class with the Thomas Jefferson sue your law school complaint.

I remember being hopefully optimistic during 1L that the Biglaw market would rebound. People were relaxed. We drank a lot. The professors were not yet even aware that there was employment problems.

This year, there's a sense of fear and despair in the air. I can't imagine how much it's going to get worse after people receive their grades in January.

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Kabuo
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby Kabuo » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:44 am

JCougar wrote:My professors are reporting record number of 1Ls coming in during office hours this year.

Everybody seems scared shitless about jobs/grades. Of course, another one of my professors, Tamanaha, reportedly started out his class with the Thomas Jefferson sue your law school complaint.

I remember being hopefully optimistic during 1L that the Biglaw market would rebound. People were relaxed. We drank a lot. The professors were not yet even aware that there was employment problems.

This year, there's a sense of fear and despair in the air. I can't imagine how much it's going to get worse after people receive their grades in January.


You liked P Smith a lot, right Jcougar? If she's one of your profs this year too, she's def not lying. There are signups and people sitting in the hall listening in on her group office hours. Crazy. I don't even try to go anymore.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:48 am

JCougar wrote:Everybody seems scared shitless about jobs/grades.

1Ls seem obsessed with employment more than in previous years, at least from what I've heard professors/speakers say.

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JCougar
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby JCougar » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:07 pm

Kabuo wrote:You liked P Smith a lot, right Jcougar? If she's one of your profs this year too, she's def not lying. There are signups and people sitting in the hall listening in on her group office hours. Crazy. I don't even try to go anymore.


She is one of my profs this year, and she's already talked about how crazy her office hours are.

Definitely one of the best professors here. She's one that is not just an expert on the law, but she really knows how to actually teach. I think she won professor of the year when she was at Iowa.

I love how she makes you get straight to the point. I love how her exams are graded on preset checklists of valid arguments rather than just giving you a tally for anything you can dream up. I love how my class this year was changed into a seminar, and instead of having an exam, we have 1 small group brief to write, and 1 individual brief to write. After graduating law school, no one will ever take a law school exam again. But they will be writing briefs, working in small groups, and researching the law. I'd rather spend time in school learning to do the things that lawyers actually do than wasting time "learning how to take a law exam." Feedback on doing things lawyers actually do is incredibly rare. If every teacher was like P. Smitty, I'd have almost zero problems with law school.

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rayiner
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby rayiner » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:03 pm

The complete lack of middle-ground employment wise. Tons of people with $160k jobs and a good number of people with nothing. All with the same debt load.

adonai
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby adonai » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:15 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
JCougar wrote:Everybody seems scared shitless about jobs/grades.

1Ls seem obsessed with employment more than in previous years, at least from what I've heard professors/speakers say.

I think this is the first official year that law students made an "informed" decision. "Informed" as in they did their research and know how bad the legal market is but still went through with it anyway. Hence, twice as much competition, determination, and freaking out. I definitely feel this at my school and the upperclassmen have all noticed it.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby Gecko of Doom » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:34 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
JCougar wrote:Everybody seems scared shitless about jobs/grades.

1Ls seem obsessed with employment more than in previous years, at least from what I've heard professors/speakers say.

This is definitely true. We've gotten a number of comments from professors and 2Ls/3Ls to the effect of "chill the f#@$ out."

I'll chill out when I have a job offer.

crit_racer
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby crit_racer » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:22 pm

My classmates. I feel really calm whenever I'm not at school, but as soon as I'm inside the law school I can just feel the tension in the air. Also, a lot of the people just seem straight MEAN. I don't come from a prestigious, snobby type background, so this is all new to me. I feel a lot of judgment radiating from some of my classmates, and it's really unpleasant.

I can't bitch about jobs yet b/c I'm a 1L so the reality of un/underemployment hasn't sunk in. I also don't despise the workload (though it is overwhelming at times). The people are really what's killing this for me so far. The people that I've met that I do like, though, are really awesome. It's just that they seem to be a distinct minority.

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ahduth
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby ahduth » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:35 pm

crit_racer wrote:My classmates. I feel really calm whenever I'm not at school, but as soon as I'm inside the law school I can just feel the tension in the air. Also, a lot of the people just seem straight MEAN. I don't come from a prestigious, snobby type background, so this is all new to me. I feel a lot of judgment radiating from some of my classmates, and it's really unpleasant.

I can't bitch about jobs yet b/c I'm a 1L so the reality of un/underemployment hasn't sunk in. I also don't despise the workload (though it is overwhelming at times). The people are really what's killing this for me so far. The people that I've met that I do like, though, are really awesome. It's just that they seem to be a distinct minority.


That's hella weak, my classmates are smart and chill all at once. Although I don't think people go to my school for the "prestige" per se, and we'll see how attitudes change once we have our first semester grades.

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ilovesf
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby ilovesf » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:24 pm

I hate that during our ten minute break in class, gunners flood the professor's table and ask as many annoying questions as possible. Sometimes there are so many people waiting in line I can't move past them to go to the fucking bathroom. I swear, people stay up late at night thinking of questions to ask these guys during break.

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Kabuo
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby Kabuo » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:26 pm

Ok, first gunner complaint on my part. Today, our Torts prof gave us a comprehensive review of negligence since we're now done with it. So on the board were duty, breach, cause in fact, prox cause, and damages, with all the other stuff that goes with each one. Anyway, most of us either already had it written down somewhere, or wrote it down in class. But the gunners wrote it down and then gathered 'round the whiteboard to take pictures of it from every angle. You know, in case there's some secret to how to ace the exam on there that they couldn't see during class and need to review. Magnified, in 8 megapixels.

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ilovesf
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby ilovesf » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:30 pm

Kabuo wrote:Ok, first gunner complaint on my part. Today, our Torts prof gave us a comprehensive review of negligence since we're now done with it. So on the board were duty, breach, cause in fact, prox cause, and damages, with all the other stuff that goes with each one. Anyway, most of us either already had it written down somewhere, or wrote it down in class. But the gunners wrote it down and then gathered 'round the whiteboard to take pictures of it from every angle. You know, in case there's some secret to how to ace the exam on there that they couldn't see during class and need to review. Magnified, in 8 megapixels.

pictures? :lol: that's crazy

adonai
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Re: What do you hate most about law school?

Postby adonai » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:37 pm

Kabuo wrote:Ok, first gunner complaint on my part. Today, our Torts prof gave us a comprehensive review of negligence since we're now done with it. So on the board were duty, breach, cause in fact, prox cause, and damages, with all the other stuff that goes with each one. Anyway, most of us either already had it written down somewhere, or wrote it down in class. But the gunners wrote it down and then gathered 'round the whiteboard to take pictures of it from every angle. You know, in case there's some secret to how to ace the exam on there that they couldn't see during class and need to review. Magnified, in 8 megapixels.

That's not gunner that's just being neurotic. :shock:




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